Skyline East: eleven 3 to 6 story/one 10 story residential complex; 1,150 units; internal garages; some retail; 14.4 acres; $300+ million cost

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

We also have to look at the human element of this because there will be a lot of folks displaced as all of that is section 8 housing. I think they will have to cooperate with Sean Parker in order to get their project through council. You scratch my back and I scratch yours deal. If the Council person is not behind the deal then there will be trouble.

So they will have to have a plan to relocate residents before they can ever start on this project. Someone familiar with the overlay needs to let us know what is allowed as the first project called for 6 to 15 story buildings. Now if they can do all of this by rights, then they can evict and do it without the councilperson.

Maybe WebberThomas or Bos2Nash know that particualr overlay as I know it changed a while back to allow for taller buildings along the corridor. I know it has an amended OV residential overlay.

Without digging into the actual overlay, the Section 8 housing may come down to contracts. Similar to the large development over on Porter Road, they are relocating residents due to the duration left on the HUD contract for the section 8 housing. If the contract is up, then yes they would have an easier path to get the residents out. In my opinion, that would be the wrong thing to do and I would bet Sean Parker would not be behind any form of eviction. 

Personally, I believe this should be done similar to the Envision program where the developer comes in and redevelops, but maintains the current unit count of section 8 housing. Creating mixed income communities creates for a much more equitable community where we see a reduction in the negatives that people associate with section 8 as well as an increase of the benefits of market rate living.

It appears the current RM20 zoning allows for a Max height of 45' after a 15' stepback at 30' tall. The PUD overlay that is there refers back to this base zoning on both height and density as well. so 6 to 15 stories most likely would need to be SP and will require support from Councilman Parker.

[WebberThomas4]

8 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Without digging into the actual overlay, the Section 8 housing may come down to contracts. Similar to the large development over on Porter Road, they are relocating residents due to the duration left on the HUD contract for the section 8 housing. If the contract is up, then yes they would have an easier path to get the residents out. In my opinion, that would be the wrong thing to do and I would bet Sean Parker would not be behind any form of eviction. 

Personally, I believe this should be done similar to the Envision program where the developer comes in and redevelops, but maintains the current unit count of section 8 housing. Creating mixed income communities creates for a much more equitable community where we see a reduction in the negatives that people associate with section 8 as well as an increase of the benefits of market rate living.

It appears the current RM20 zoning allows for a Max height of 45' after a 15' stepback at 30' tall. The PUD overlay that is there refers back to this base zoning on both height and density as well. so 6 to 15 stories most likely would need to be SP and will require support from Councilman Parker.

Not to get off topic, but they are different situations regarding section 8.  It’s also been a while since I worked in the affordable housing world so this may have changed some. 

Berkshire Place has a contract with HUD for Section 8. That subsidy stays with the unit/property regardless of who occupies the unit  - also known as Project Based Rental Assistance. When a tenant moves out, the section 8 assistance does not move with them. 

Riverchase is made up of a mix market rate units and section 8 voucher units. The section 8 subsidy in this case, known as Tenant Based Rental Assistance, comes from HUD and is administered by MDHA. The tenant receives the voucher from MDHA and is then tasked with finding a landlord or apartment complex that will accept their voucher. In this case, the tenants at Riverchase with section 8 vouchers will be displaced but they will still have a voucher that they can take to another landlord or property that accepts section 8. 

[smeagolsfree]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out!

[tokiorose]

My understanding is that the section 8 has expired or ended for this property that is one of the reasons it went up for sale.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[smeagolsfree]

That is what I thought from a long time ago but was afraid to mention it.

[markhollin]

Cypress Real Estate Advisors (CREA) is planning to buy the 14.4 acre site from Riverchase Holdings to begin a $300 million development in mid-2022 that will now include at least 220 affordable housing units in 11 buildings (ranging from 3 to 6 stories). Parking garages and at least 3 swimming pools appear to be part of the plan as well. No word on how many market-rate units would be part of the plan, but it appears to be at least 1,000 additional units. 

They have enlisted Hastings Architecture for design and Hawkins Partners for land planning.  The team met with Metro Council member Sean Parker, McFerrin Park Neighborhood Assoc., and various community neighbors to discuss their plans.  CREA will submit a specific preliminary plan in a rezoning request in early October.  

Bos2Nash has much more detail in his post immediately below this one.

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/details-emerge-for-300m-project-planned-for-east-side/article_4c23c7ea-22c8-11ec-adf0-8fedba6da64b.html
 

 

[Bos2Nash]

Attended a community meeting for this project this week. Developer has gone back and forth on a number of things and improved many "site transition" items to assist current residents. The big takeaway for the project is the site plan diagrams that were indicated the heights of the structures and the connections/improvements to the local roads. The developer is CREA out of Austin with Hastings serving as the Architect and Hawkins Partners serving as planning (and presumably Landscape Architects). Below are some additional project details that we can talk about on Saturday if time allows.

• North of a $300 million investment.
• Estimated to be submitting to Preliminary SP on October 4th, but this is fluid.
• Parking podiums would be concrete and the rest of the building would be FRT stick frame wood.
• The 10-story would most likely be cast-in-place concrete
• Individual building amenities on top of the parking decks.
• We did not have a specific unit count (because the buildings haven't actually been designed), but the developer is currently looking at a 70/30 split of studios/1-bedrooms to 2-3 bedroom units.
• 20,000 SF of retail is currently expected
• Alley between N 2^nd Street and Joseph would stay an alley but would be an “enhanced” alley. This means widening to 22’ wide and repaved and lined with street trees along the development side.
• 220 Affordable units, 120 of which would serve “most vulnerable community members” (which is an increase from currently 70). CREA is looking into potentially deed restricting the units to ensure the affordability is always there.
  • Legacy (current) tenants will have certain priority within the new development
    • Early notice to apply for units in new development
    • Tenants who leave in good standing will not be required to achieve 3x monthly rent as income when re-applying
    • Legacy Section 8 vouchers will be accepted
    • Early notice to apply for employment through future property management company.
• Meridian and Grace intersections will become signalized intersections.
• Bike lanes would also be integrated
• Final move-outs to commence around 05/26/2022.

Here is the site plan that will essentially be Phase I

Everything in the image below that is NOT circled in red would be Phase 1. 

The "alternate" site plan is a desired end goal for the Dickerson Connector that runs from Spring Street to Dickerson Pike. The traffic engineers are still studying the impacts of this new design and coordination would include TDOT, NDOT and the development team to get it done. Most likely this is also part of Phase 2 as the project team can build all but one of the Phase 1 buildings before a decision is made on this "alternate" improvement.

The overall vibe of the project was hesitant. There were some folks present that had been in previous meetings and saw the changes made, but there were definitely some concerns. Especially about a 10 story tower. Stand Up Nashville was present at the meeting, but I did not have a chance to speak with the representative (same one I spoke to about the East Bank/Racetrack). Views were a big topic as residents stated they watch the 4th of July fireworks from the corner of N 2nd Street and the alley just south of Treutland. Councilman Sean Parker was also in attendance and requested additional information regarding massing and height (specifically how tall the 10-story would be).  Family housing was also a topic that I brought up with the developer, councilman Parker and the neighborhood association in hopes a seeing more 3-bedroom units that can actually house families.

[nashvylle]

9 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

 

The overall vibe of the project was hesitant. There were some folks present that had been in previous meetings and saw the changes made, but there were definitely some concerns. Especially about a 10 story tower. Stand Up Nashville was present at the meeting, but I did not have a chance to speak with the representative (same one I spoke to about the East Bank/Racetrack). Views were a big topic as residents stated they watch the 4th of July fireworks from the corner of N 2nd Street and the alley just south of Treutland. 

Major, major eyeroll. If you want affordable housing, get out of the way!!! Your views of fireworks one day a year will be worse if you cancel this project and are priced out of this neighborhood to Dickson County.

Some people could be given a condo at Four Seasons for free, and they would complain that it wasn't the penthouse. 

Thank you for the summary, @Bos2Nash

Edited October 1, 2021 by nashvylle

[WebberThomas4]

Pulled this from the Dickerson Pike South plan that was adopted in 2020. A 10 story building would be appropriate at Meridian and Dickerson. 

[MLBrumby]

22 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

Pulled this from the Dickerson Pike South plan that was adopted in 2020. A 10 story building would be appropriate at Meridian and Dickerson. 

The legend says the disconnected orange squares represent existing local connections for transit.  It shows one running from White Creek north of Fern Avenue.  Does that line really exist? I don't see an existing street that follows that route. If it does exist, it's an example of what I'm suggesting as a solution for BRT with reconnected/connected streets (comment in the Transportation thread from yesterday).  And that whole Fern Avenue overpass needs to be completely reworked. Does anyone here know if TDOT has any plan to do that? 

[Bos2Nash]

32 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

Pulled this from the Dickerson Pike South plan that was adopted in 2020. A 10 story building would be appropriate at Meridian and Dickerson. 

Shoot, I wish I had this with me/knew it during the meeting. There was a specific gentleman that I was speaking with that kept griping about the 10-story structure and referencing the community plan. This would've been a great tool to use haha (I have it for next time now)! Thanks for sharing!!

5 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

The legend says the disconnected orange squares represent existing local connections for transit.  It shows one running from White Creek north of Fern Avenue.  Does that line really exist? I don't see an existing street that follows that route. If it does exist, it's an example of what I'm suggesting as a solution for BRT with reconnected/connected streets (comment in the Transportation thread from yesterday).  And that whole Fern Avenue overpass needs to be completely reworked. Does anyone here know if TDOT has any plan to do that? 

The existing local connections is a pink dash actually. The dashed line running north from Fern Ave is a proposed collector street (according to the Major Street Collector Plan) that would connect to Lucile, then Elmhurst, then Lucas Lane (Loves Travel Stop), across W Trinity Lane and Old Trinity Lane and finally connect to Grizzard Ave and come back to Dickerson.

[WebberThomas4]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:08 PM, Bos2Nash said:

Shoot, I wish I had this with me/knew it during the meeting. There was a specific gentleman that I was speaking with that kept griping about the 10-story structure and referencing the community plan. This would've been a great tool to use haha (I have it for next time now)! Thanks for sharing!!

Check out number 6 on their upcoming neighborhood meeting agenda. They’re going to be disappointed when they realize this plan is following what was set forth in the Dickerson Pike South plan. 

[Bos2Nash]

CM Sean Parker shared some additional information that he had requested and received from the project team.

Overall site massing

Site Sections (refer to key in the bottom right for location):

Additionally the developer will be doing what appears to be $100,000 in traffic calming measures in the area.

Lastly a breakdown of the affordable housing units that are currently planned. I am happy to see more than 20 3-bedroom units associated with the hybrid housing, but it is unfortunate that folks making 80% AMI would not have this development as an option if they have a family.

[nashvylle]

Thanks @Bos2Nash

WRT to workforce and affordable housing, is there a max family size for studios and 1 bedrooms? For example, could a father who works at Nissan stadium making 80% of AMI be extremely efficient and live in  a studio or 1 bedroom with his wife and 3 kids, or do families of 4 having to live in a 2 bedroom? 

[Bos2Nash]

21 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

WRT to workforce and affordable housing, is there a max family size for studios and 1 bedrooms? For example, could a father who works at Nissan stadium making 80% of AMI be extremely efficient and live in  a studio or 1 bedroom with his wife and 3 kids, or do families of 4 having to live in a 2 bedroom? 

Looking into this a little bit. HUD puts that guidance on the individual housing authorities (so MDHA would be responsible here i believe). Here is the guidance from HUD's website

Additionally, here is HUD's guidance for parents/children/unrelated adults. 

These are all "public housing" guidelines, so this would apply more to MDHA developments than this privately done one, but I believe if you are doing affordable housing one should be considering things such as this.

[WebberThomas4]

http://maps.nashville.gov/MPC/2021SP-083-001_plan.pdf
 

SP application submitted

[markhollin]

NashvilleNowNext coverage of the proposal:

https://nashvillenownext.com/2021/10/11/dickerson-pike-eyed-for-1150-unit-mixed-use-development-near-river-north/
 

[Rlooper]

Does anyone know where the community stands with this proposal?  CREA is an Affordable Housing Developer so not sure what was negotiated if anything.

[Bos2Nash]

2 hours ago, Rlooper said:

Does anyone know where the community stands with this proposal?  CREA is an Affordable Housing Developer so not sure what was negotiated if anything.

 

On 10/1/2021 at 12:06 PM, Bos2Nash said:

The overall vibe of the project was hesitant. There were some folks present that had been in previous meetings and saw the changes made, but there were definitely some concerns. Especially about a 10 story tower. Stand Up Nashville was present at the meeting, but I did not have a chance to speak with the representative (same one I spoke to about the East Bank/Racetrack). Views were a big topic as residents stated they watch the 4th of July fireworks from the corner of N 2nd Street and the alley just south of Treutland. Councilman Sean Parker was also in attendance and requested additional information regarding massing and height (specifically how tall the 10-story would be).  Family housing was also a topic that I brought up with the developer, councilman Parker and the neighborhood association in hopes a seeing more 3-bedroom units that can actually house families.

On 10/1/2021 at 12:06 PM, Bos2Nash said:

220 Affordable units, 120 of which would serve “most vulnerable community members” (which is an increase from currently 70). CREA is looking into potentially deed restricting the units to ensure the affordability is always there.

• Legacy (current) tenants will have certain priority within the new development
  • Early notice to apply for units in new development
  • Tenants who leave in good standing will not be required to achieve 3x monthly rent as income when re-applying
  • Legacy Section 8 vouchers will be accepted
  • Early notice to apply for employment through future property management company.

 

[Rlooper]

Thanks!

[Bos2Nash]

Update from CREA after apparently another meeting occurred this week. The biggest change that will dismay many is the 8 and 9 story portions of building around the 10-story building have been removed and that portion of the site has been re-worked to allow a 10 and 5 structure combination. You can see this change along with the other building heights below. There appears to be a non-labelled building block in the site plan that does appear to be around 8 stories, but the email I received from the mailing list says that the 8 and 9 stories portions are removed.

Here is an updated massing of the site:

Here are some updated section studies of the massing.

 

It also appears the development team is moving forwards with the reconfiguration of the Spring Street/Dickerson Pike connector (this will be a more long range portion of the project) in an effort to improve pedestrian life and overall street safety.

At the request of the neighborhood and CM Parker, the locations of retail and parking were also more clearly defined:

Overall I am still very happy with this project and really hope they can keeping the momentum they have rolling and break ground next year.

[MLBrumby]

It is remarkable how too many can get their panties in a bunch over 1-2 floors of a proposed building.  

Am I being overly simplistic when I think that any developer who wants to build up to a certain floor should go to Planning Commission first with a proposal 5+ stories over the level they know they want? 

[Bos2Nash]

Well that is part of the problem to many folks. If the project goes straight to planning without community input than the developer is being ignorant to the community. If the developer comes to the community first and integrates a couple things, the community continues to ask for more. It is such a finicky line that developers/designers have to play. Also this is why the "SP" process under our zoning laws is so frustrating. I understand the need for community input, but some community members feel like they should have a hand in designing the actual building which is ridiculous to me. I feel alot of that pressure or anger from communities comes from the HGTV/DIY movement where everyone is an armchair developer of architect. They think they understand things, but they really don't.

In some instances, sure the massing can be overpowering, but I agree on this particular project that the massing at the southwest corner of the site should've been granted more leeway with going big and is disappointing that we would lose a fair amount of massing.

[smeagolsfree]

And the pointed issue here is when the residents can be so arrogant as to think in some situations that they can tell a developer they can tell him what he can't do by rights. When the developer has gone in, in good faith and worked with a community (not saying that has not happened here) and the community has demanded this, that and the other. Then the developer has turned around and said screw you, we are just going to build a 6 story building to cover the block that we can do by rights and you can't stop that. I think that has happened a few times and the neighborhood has come out on the bad end of the deal.

Sometimes the area neighbors, think they have so much power and they don't. A perfect example of this is when they tried to do the multi-housing moratorium in Antioch.  You can't stop a property owner from doing something with their property they can do by rights if it is already zoned for that. 

I do applaud many of the developers for working with the neighbors on these projects, but there are times that the neighborhood groups are being very unreasonable.

[Bos2Nash]

I will stipulate that the neighbors at the meeting I went to wasn't totally unreasonable. The height at the southwest corner and the blocking of the views were a bit laughable, but overall most of the things they were asking/discussing with the development team were things that the development team has been open to and integrated in.

Could be worse, could be City Lights suing this group saying their view of Dickerson Pike is being blocked haha.