Charlotte Pipe &Foundry redevelopment

[rockhilljames]

This is such a big deal that I thought it deserves its own thread. Mods feel free to merge if necessary.

 

20+ acre sites near uptown don't come open very often, so this site has the potential to be something special. Right now everyone is speculating about it as the possible home to a new Panthers stadium, but I have my concerns. For me the main issue is connectivity. Right now the property is bordered on one side by 277 and on the other by railroad tracks and a fairly significant rail yard. The only connection to uptown, S Clarkson St going under 277 is tenuous at best. In that regard it shares some similarities with the Music Factory location. How do you envision a potential stadium on this site? And if not a stadium what do you think would work best for this?

[KJHburg]

I think the property along W Morehead on the inside the 277 loop would be a better stadium site if needed (not completely onboard with a new stadium just because we have a new owner bandwagon)  (I am referring to the land CP&F bought the old Beazer Homes land)   The other land where the existing foundry stands could be residential office mixed uses but it will remain cut off from the uptown area and that won't really change.  

[nakers2]

Politics aside, IF a new stadium goes on this site, I think the connectivity issues will resolve themselves. When cities are presented with challenges, they tend to find creative ways around them, and I trust Charlotte is getting to a tipping point where half hearted solutions will not longer make the cut. 

With that being said, the stadium will eventually need to be replaced, and I can speak for a lot of us when I say that we NEED it to be Uptown. The current site is about as good as it's gonna get, but obviously we can't just airlift a stadium into place, so the foundry site is genuinely the only logical location. As someone mentioned in the "good news" thread, and MLB (or MLS) stadium could go here and still keep the old Panther's site viable. 

Long terms I propose it should at least be explored how to re-route/ replace 277 and the tracks through the area here, either making them go underground, or routing them around to open up this part of Uptown. 

[Cadi40]

I’d rather have a walkable new urban neighborhood and entertainment district than a new stadium.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

I’d rather have a walkable new urban neighborhood and entertainment district than a new stadium.

See I'd rather have a new stadium and convention district, and then a new walkable urban neighborhood where the stadium currently sits.

[cltbwimob]

23 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

See I'd rather have a new stadium and convention district, and then a new walkable urban neighborhood where the stadium currently sits.

Current convention center isn’t likely to go anywhere, and according to reports earlier this year Tepper wants to renovate BofA rather than build a new stadium because a) a new stadium would cost too much and b) he thinks he can make the current stadium into a greater revenue generator now as opposed to waiting for a new one (my paraphrase).  That said if he changes his mind and decides he wants a new stadium, and if it goes to referendum, he has at least two guaranteed “no” votes from my wife and me.

[Bikeguy]

1 minute ago, cltbwimob said:

Current convention center isn’t likely to go anywhere, and according to reports earlier this year Tepper wants to renovate BofA rather than build a new stadium because a) a new stadium would cost too much and b) he thinks he can make the current stadium into a greater revenue generator now as opposed to waiting for a new one (my paraphrase).  That said if he changes his mind and decides he wants a new stadium, and if it goes to referendum, he has at least two guaranteed “no” votes from my wife and me.

..and don't forget all of the PSL owners who will probably not want to fork over any more cash to fund brand new seats...   In fact, they'll be sitting on a pretty worthless investment if Tepper chooses to rebuild.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

Current convention center isn’t likely to go anywhere, and according to reports earlier this year Tepper wants to renovate BofA rather than build a new stadium because a) a new stadium would cost too much and b) he thinks he can make the current stadium into a greater revenue generator now as opposed to waiting for a new one (my paraphrase).  That said if he changes his mind and decides he wants a new stadium, and if it goes to referendum, he has at least two guaranteed “no” votes from my wife and me.

I just know for a fact that the Panthers were in talks with CP&F to purchase the land form them. Which either means they mean to add a lot of parking at a very very very steep price, or plan something bigger.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Guest

[Crucial_Infra]

One reason to move the stadium is just that the land where it’s located now is so valuable. Frankly, it’s ridiculous to have such an asset (unused 90% of the time) sitting on such valuable property. I don’t necessarily think a new stadium needs to be a billion dollars but if the economics work out and free up valuable real estate to be developed for a better purpose, I’m all for it.

Don’t get me wrong, I love that the stadium is so close to the city core. We literally have skyscrapers within 500 feet of it.  No other city has anything like that. Maybe within a few thousand feet but nothing like Charlotte. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Crucial_Infra

[SouthEndCLT811]

45 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

..and don't forget all of the PSL owners who will probably not want to fork over any more cash to fund brand new seats...   In fact, they'll be sitting on a pretty worthless investment if Tepper chooses to rebuild.  

I was going to post about this.  Don't the original PSL's expire in 2021 after a 25 year agreement?  That's one reason I didn't think we'd see movement on a new stadium or a renovation that reduces seats until after these expire.  Not saying Tepper couldn't come to a settlement with anyone impacted if they did anything sooner, but letting the original agreement play out looks better as he asks people to sign up for a renewal/new stadium PSL

[Bikeguy]

Per the original agreement with the Panthers, permanent seat licenses are tied to the uptown stadium, not to the team. “Licensee has the right and obligation to purchase the related season tickets for all home games ... for the franchise for as long as the team plays in the Stadium,” the original agreement reads...  Permanent is not so permanent if the Panthers move across the street. 

[videtur quam contuor]

I was a charter Hornets PSL owner and in the salad days others thought they had an asset that could only increase in value. I thought they were crazy. After 13 seasons George Shinn tried to shake me loose from my tickets and I acceded to his request.

[jednc]

38 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

I was a charter Hornets PSL owner and in the salad days others thought they had an asset that could only increase in value. I thought they were crazy. After 13 seasons George Shinn tried to shake me loose from my tickets and I acceded to his request.

There were PSLs for the Hornets at the old Coliseum on Tyvola Rd? (this is my polite way of saying there were no PSLs at the old Coliseum on Tyvola Rd.) Perhaps just a season ticket holder?

1 hour ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

I was going to post about this.  Don't the original PSL's expire in 2021 after a 25 year agreement?  That's one reason I didn't think we'd see movement on a new stadium or a renovation that reduces seats until after these expire.  Not saying Tepper couldn't come to a settlement with anyone impacted if they did anything sooner, but letting the original agreement play out looks better as he asks people to sign up for a renewal/new stadium PSL

PSLs do not expire after 25 years. They continue as long as the stadium exists and as long as the owner continues to purchase tickets each year.

[videtur quam contuor]

I was a charter season ticket holder with sale or assignment of my rights an option at any time. Renewal each season was required or rights reverted. In shorthand, a psl (lower case). Rights continued until the team moved.

[InSouthPark]

21 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

I was a charter season ticket holder with sale or assignment of my rights an option at any time. Renewal each season was required or rights reverted. In shorthand, a psl (lower case). Rights continued until the team moved.

PSL owners pay one time prices of $1500/seat and way up for the right to buy season tickets and were the first sports franchise to do so.  Hornets just had regular season ticket rules as you describe.  You get the seats as long as you keep buying season tickets.  Every franchise works like that.  I had season tickets for the gamecocks for 10 years. Same thing. I got to keep my same seats as long as I kept paying. 

[Guest]

I did this a few months back, and stopped when my apple pen snapped in half. This is how I’d fix the grid. It’d be contingent on duke deck being sold, and the Bank of America stadium moving. Also connect some streets that are cut off by the train line.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rockhilljames]

To be honest I had no idea that CP&F bought that land. That does make it much more feasible to either build a new stadium or make this a part of a redevelopment plan for renovating the existing one. i'm sure that Tepper has something similar in mind to what Pittsburgh has done in the North Shore. This area could be transformed into a live/work/play area pretty easily. i love the idea of reconnecting the grid, I think that would work great. It would also leave the actual foundry site for residential, which is probably its best use.

[queensguy06]

It makes all too much sense for Tepper & co. to buy this site if they plan to keep the Panthers near Uptown for the foreseeable future.  Even if the plan was to not build a new stadium for 10 to 15 years, I'd imagine the value of the land would be significantly higher at that point.  Purchase the CP&F site now, sit on it until the current Panthers stadium outlives is use (30-35 years old at that point), build the new stadium on that site and develop the old site into a large mixed use entertainment/office/hotel/residential district.  While I'm not a huge fan of going all Levine style on the current site, the longer term plan could be more beneficial to the city than developing something immediately.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, queensguy06 said:

It makes all too much sense for Tepper & co. to buy this site if they plan to keep the Panthers near Uptown for the foreseeable future.  Even if the plan was to not build a new stadium for 10 to 15 years, I'd imagine the value of the land would be significantly higher at that point.  Purchase the CP&F site now, sit on it until the current Panthers stadium outlives is use (30-35 years old at that point), build the new stadium on that site and develop the old site into a large mixed use entertainment/office/hotel/residential district.  While I'm not a huge fan of going all Levine style on the current site, the longer term plan could be more beneficial to the city than developing something immediately.

I mean its been Levine style for 25 years anyway.

2 minutes ago, queensguy06 said:

It makes all too much sense for Tepper & co. to buy this site if they plan to keep the Panthers near Uptown for the foreseeable future.  Even if the plan was to not build a new stadium for 10 to 15 years, I'd imagine the value of the land would be significantly higher at that point.  Purchase the CP&F site now, sit on it until the current Panthers stadium outlives is use (30-35 years old at that point), build the new stadium on that site and develop the old site into a large mixed use entertainment/office/hotel/residential district.  While I'm not a huge fan of going all Levine style on the current site, the longer term plan could be more beneficial to the city than developing something immediately.

I mean its been Levine style for 25 years anyway.

[sakami]

Any theories on what CP&F will do about their office on Randolph in Elizabeth? Keep it open? Sell to move it closer/on their new location? It is a big, pretty building on what I’m sure the hospitals would consider a prime location 

[KJHburg]

14 minutes ago, sakami said:

Any theories on what CP&F will do about their office on Randolph in Elizabeth? Keep it open? Sell to move it closer/on their new location? It is a big, pretty building on what I’m sure the hospitals would consider a prime location 

Reports indicate they will keep their HQ here as they have a plant in Monroe as well. 

[wilmore]

If this goes down, it's the prime opportunity to Abolish 277 (which is not something I see gaining popular support, but given how *horrible* 277 is anyway at moving traffic & general design, could surface streets be much worse?) 

[SgtCampsalot]

On 5/20/2019 at 2:29 PM, rockhilljames said:

This is such a big deal that I thought it deserves its own thread. Mods feel free to merge if necessary.

 

20+ acre sites near uptown don't come open very often, so this site has the potential to be something special. Right now everyone is speculating about it as the possible home to a new Panthers stadium, but I have my concerns. For me the main issue is connectivity. Right now the property is bordered on one side by 277 and on the other by railroad tracks and a fairly significant rail yard. The only connection to uptown, S Clarkson St going under 277 is tenuous at best. In that regard it shares some similarities with the Music Factory location. How do you envision a potential stadium on this site? And if not a stadium what do you think would work best for this?

Can you clarify: is this actual news, or are we just discussing it? I haven't seen any links about it in this thread.

[KJHburg]

Subscriber article in the Business Journal

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/05/20/charlotte-pipe-to-leave-site-near-uptown-charlotte.html

""Charlotte Pipe & Foundry is close to a $325 million deal to move its metal pipe manufacturing operation near uptown Charlotte to an undeveloped site in the Oakboro area of Stanly County, sources have told the Charlotte Business Journal.  An announcement on an estimated $125 million in incentives that were signed into law Thursday could be made as soon as this week, according to one source. That legislation, Senate Bill 505, extends extra state incentives to an unnamed manufacturer, but limits those inducements to $154 million. N.C. Gov. Roy Cooper signed SB 505 into law on Thursday. The bill calls for the incentives to support 1,050 jobs.  The CBJ first wrote about the possibility that Charlotte Pipe was considering a move for the plant last month. Property values have escalated in the area near South End, and nearby development has added pressure on the company to question what is the best use for more than 20 acres on Clarkson Street where it now makes metal pipe and employs about 475 workers.""

[Desert Power]

Place is blocked off by police and their is a giant presence on nearby streets.  Any idea what is going on?