Affordable Housing in Orlando

[nite owℓ]

On 12/8/2019 at 10:51 AM, AndyPok1 said:

Catching up on threads I never read, so apologies for the months old quote but...

The problem with FHA is the approval process.  With how hot the realty market can be in Orlando, lots of sellers don't want to dead with the complications of an FHA loan because they can just wait a few days and get an offer from someone without one.  

Anecdotally, it took my parents over 3 months to close when selling their house up north to FHA buyers and the stipulations (painting shutters?!) were utterly ridiculous.

Trustco does an amazing thing for our community by offering 5% (with a quarter percent interest rate hike) or 10.5% as default.  *With* no Mortgage Insurance OR escrow.  You need to have a very good credit score (I think 720+) to qualify, but it basically gives you the benefits of FHA in the framing of a conventional loan.  I wouldn't have been able to buy my place without it.

FHA isn't perfect, but it has its place. Never heard of Trustco before, I'll keep that info in my back pocket for future reference. Glad to know there are other low down payment alternatives out there, because sometimes paying the full 20% up front just doesn't make financial sense. Hiccups can happen with any kind of financing -- FHA or not -- because lenders still require buyers to jump through hoops to prove they can qualify for the loan and then external issues get factored in on top of everything else like problems revealed during inspections, delays due to insurance companies unwilling to insure older buildings (happened to me), issues brought up during underwriting, etc. I've seen conventional loans fall through and properties listed as "back on the market" which is why for many sellers, cash is king.

[AndyPok1]

Oh absolutely agreed.  Not hating on FHA at all.  Just saying that I don't know anyone that has bought using FHA within the core of Orlando while the market is hot.

[aent]

12 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Oh absolutely agreed.  Not hating on FHA at all.  Just saying that I don't know anyone that has bought using FHA within the core of Orlando while the market is hot.

I'll go out and hate on FHA for you: it promotes sprawl, its anti-condo and anti-density, and pushing generally bad loans.

[spenser1058]

Village On Mercy opens - great job by the city on this:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orlando-affordable-housing-village-on-mercy-opens-20191213-fbtcuqbpwzhedb46kiwxiusesi-story.html

From the Sentinel 

 

[spenser1058]

What’s astounding to me on housing, transit and the wage issues is how we’ve hit critical mass and, no matter which way you turn, the huge elephant in the middle of I4 that was barely spoken about before except in occasional throw off lines is the first thing discussed by politicians and in the local media.

Even more amazing, all this energy is coming from Orange County instead of Orlando.

During most of my life, progress in Orlando chugged along but ever so slowly, at sublight. Now, it’s like Captain Picard (but his flagship is the OC Administrative Center instead of City Hall for the first time) has given the order, “Engage!” and we’re jumping to warp.

Obviously, it’s on a much smaller level, but the head-snapping political change reminds this boomer of the day in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell. That couldn’t happen, either, until it did.

I am excited to see how far this can go and pleasantly surprised that our community seems to once again be finding the way to move forward.

One more voice on the topic:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-rodriguez-affordable-housing-20191216-fyahc6jawfbhfckex3wjykogmi-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[AmIReal]

49 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

What’s astounding to me on housing, transit and the wage issues is how we’ve hit critical mass and, no matter which way you turn, the huge elephant in the middle of I4 that was barely spoken about before except in occasional throw off lines is the first thing discussed by politicians and in the local media.

Even more amazing, all this energy is coming from Orange County instead of Orlando.

During most of my life, progress in Orlando chugged along but ever so slowly, at sublight. Now, it’s like Captain Picard (but his flagship is the OC Administrative Center instead of City Hall for the first time) has given the order, “Engage!” and we’re jumping to warp.

Obviously, it’s on a much smaller level, but the head-snapping political change reminds this boomer of the day in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell. That couldn’t happen, either, until it did.

I am excited to see how far this can go and pleasantly surprised that our community seems to once again be finding the way to move forward.

One more voice on the topic:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-rodriguez-affordable-housing-20191216-fyahc6jawfbhfckex3wjykogmi-story.html

From the Sentinel 

The City has had affordable housing offices for decades. The County still does not. I'm glad to see them stepping up now and I certainly attribute that to Mayor Demmings, but they are still woefully behind.

[spenser1058]

47 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

The City has had affordable housing offices for decades. The County still does not. I'm glad to see them stepping up now and I certainly attribute that to Mayor Demmings, but they are still woefully behind.

Yes, they have indeed and we made national press for just how bad it was. One notable exception: the neighborhood they set up at Bumby and Robinson with much input from local residents and small business folk (especially realtors).

Buddy could have done the same thing in Parramore and transformed the neighborhood. Instead he followed the corporate big project model and Parramore’s still a mess. Buddy said to judge his success by Parramore. 17 years later and I think we should. 

.Bottom line: Mayor Demings has done more to change the discussion in 1 year than Mayor Buddy has in the last decade. Mayor Bill was right: time to move on after 10 years.

And, even more interestingly, Mayor Demings has done it from a base that has been languishing in the status quo for 18 years.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Yes, they have indeed and we made national press for just how bad it was. One notable exception: the neighborhood they set up at Bumby and Robinson with much input from local residents and small business folk (especially realtors).

Buddy could have done the same thing in Parramore and transformed the neighborhood. Instead he followed the corporate big project model and Parramore’s still a mess. Buddy said to judge his success by Parramore. 17 years later and I think we should. 

.Bottom line: Mayor Demings has done more to change the discussion in 1 year than Mayor Buddy has in the last decade. Mayor Bill was right: time to move on after 10 years.

And, even more interestingly, Mayor Demings has done it from a base that has been languishing in the status quo for 18 years.

 

 

Conflating Parramore with the subject- affordable housing- is a common error. Parramore is nearly 70% commercial and much of that government owned. The residential that is there is some of the most affordable within the City. However the income there is also some of the lowest and the unemployment some of the highest. As your example of Bumby/ Robinson shows, affordable housing is a much broader issue. I know we disagree on this, but I'd say Parramore has shown and continues to show significant improvement in the past decade. I guess it depends on what you want to measure.

As to the negative press, I'd agree it is well deserved and is primarily focused on 60 year old projects that no administration has had the guts to demo yet.

Btw, I'm a big supporter of Mayor Demings- both financially and as a cheerleader.

[jack]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Yes, they have indeed and we made national press for just how bad it was. One notable exception: the neighborhood they set up at Bumby and Robinson with much input from local residents and small business folk (especially realtors).

Buddy could have done the same thing in Parramore and transformed the neighborhood. Instead he followed the corporate big project model and Parramore’s still a mess. Buddy said to judge his success by Parramore. 17 years later and I think we should. 

.Bottom line: Mayor Demings has done more to change the discussion in 1 year than Mayor Buddy has in the last decade. Mayor Bill was right: time to move on after 10 years.

And, even more interestingly, Mayor Demings has done it from a base that has been languishing in the status quo for 18 years.

 

 

Carver Park was intended to be a replica of Hampton Park. It never really took off because of the recession and the challenges in the community. It literally was to be developed the exact same way. 

[smileguy]

1 hour ago, jack said:

Carver Park was intended to be a replica of Hampton Park. It never really took off because of the recession and the challenges in the community. It literally was to be developed the exact same way. 

And Hampton Park isn't all that successful. Much of the single family housing is no longer affordable, and the parcel at Bumby and Robinson still hasn't been developed.  With HUD's recent shift to supporting mixed use, mixed income projects (as a giveaway to for-profit developers) and it's location in an OZ, I would love to see something of density, with parking and ground floor retail go in there.

[AmIReal]

Speaking of OC govt and affordable housing. Commissioners today approved a plan by unanimous vote in hopes to improve the situation.

"the goal of creating or preserving 30,300 units of affordable and attainable housing over a decade... making regulation and policy changes, focusing financial resources and target areas for the housing, as well as engaging the community and businesses in the effort..."

11k units for incomes in the $26-83k range and 19,300k units for incomes of $83-97k.

Also includes and dedicated fund- which is a really big deal considering the State keeps stealing from theirs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/12/17/orange-county-commission-signs-off-on-affordable.html?iana=hpmvp_orl_news_headline

 

[spenser1058]

One of the more notorious Mercy Drive apartment complexes may see big impinge its future:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-mercy-drive-windsor-cove-rehabilitation-20200106-zsbiqprcmzht5ot3wy37ekf7jy-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[AmIReal]

Coming up with a 1 or sometimes 2 month security deposit is often a problem. Cincinnati recently passed a law requiring landlords to offer several options on security deposits. One of the more interesting options is security deposit insurance- a policy purchased by the renter that would pay the owner in case of a broken lease.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/478479-cincinnatis-passes-landmark-renters-choice-bill-that-could-solve

 

[spenser1058]

How the approach to affordable housing changed and may have led to more homelessness:

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2020/01/16/governments-are-rethinking-the-provision-of-public-housing

From The Economist

(It’s free but you may have to register)

Short answer: housing vouchers may have driven up demand but did little to increase supply.

[spenser1058]

A market failure in Manhattan real estate, leaving a glut at the top and no place to live at the bottom:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/american-housing-has-gone-insane/605005/

From The Atlantic 

[spenser1058]

Unlocking affordable housing in Florida: more small projects (8-12 units) on infill lots, get over 1950’s parking requirements and recognize folks just starting out don’t all need the same amenities. Also, in already urban areas, substitute administrative approval for public hearings.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2020/10/15/how-to-solve-floridas-affordable-housing-crisis/

From The Tampa Bay Times

The city, county and OCPS/VC should also work together along with community bankers and non-profits to develop a curriculum that encourages local students to concentrate on ways to build small complexes that meet the needs of affordable housing and to improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods. It also would give us a local entrepreneur class that actually cares about the long-term success of the region.

Dropping a 200-unit complex on a neighborhood, which is mostly all the large Wall Street builders want to do, almost never improves a neighborhood in the long-term. We’ve seen this same problem over and over again in places like Rosemont and MetroWest (not to mention places like Cabrini Green in Chicago). Jane Jacobs warned us about it decades ago but we’re still not heeding the lesson.

 

[jack]

On 10/18/2020 at 1:49 PM, spenser1058 said:

Unlocking affordable housing in Florida: more small projects (8-12 units) on infill lots, get over 1950’s parking requirements and recognize folks just starting out don’t all need the same amenities. Also, in already urban areas, substitute administrative approval for public hearings.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2020/10/15/how-to-solve-floridas-affordable-housing-crisis/

From The Tampa Bay Times

The city, county and OCPS/VC should also work together along with community bankers and non-profits to develop a curriculum that encourages local students to concentrate on ways to build small complexes that meet the needs of affordable housing and to improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods. It also would give us a local entrepreneur class that actually cares about the long-term success of the region.

Dropping a 200-unit complex on a neighborhood, which is mostly all the large Wall Street builders want to do, almost never improves a neighborhood in the long-term. We’ve seen this same problem over and over again in places like Rosemont and MetroWest (not to mention places like Cabrini Green in Chicago). Jane Jacobs warned us about it decades ago but we’re still not heeding the lesson.

 

Ignoring the Wall Street builders comment, the ideas mentioned are key to getting more small scale developments. Traditionally, small scale builders did projects like this as a side hustle, not their main source of business. But meeting parking minimums, set back requirements, fire code issues (depending on the area) makes them challenging to do unless it is your full-time job. Add to the brain damage of getting it approved, it usually is not worth it. 

 

[smileguy]

On 10/18/2020 at 1:49 PM, spenser1058 said:

Unlocking affordable housing in Florida: more small projects (8-12 units) on infill lots, get over 1950’s parking requirements and recognize folks just starting out don’t all need the same amenities. Also, in already urban areas, substitute administrative approval for public hearings.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2020/10/15/how-to-solve-floridas-affordable-housing-crisis/

From The Tampa Bay Times

The city, county and OCPS/VC should also work together along with community bankers and non-profits to develop a curriculum that encourages local students to concentrate on ways to build small complexes that meet the needs of affordable housing and to improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods. It also would give us a local entrepreneur class that actually cares about the long-term success of the region.

Dropping a 200-unit complex on a neighborhood, which is mostly all the large Wall Street builders want to do, almost never improves a neighborhood in the long-term. We’ve seen this same problem over and over again in places like Rosemont and MetroWest (not to mention places like Cabrini Green in Chicago). Jane Jacobs warned us about it decades ago but we’re still not heeding the lesson.

Some fireworks at yesterday's City Council meeting between two commissioners over a mid-sized private affordable development (a continuation of some strong words last meeting).  There has been some back and forth on parking, with the developer asking for fewer spaces. Commissioner Ortiz thinks poor transit and potential age of tenants means they should have more parking than proposed. Commissioner Hill sees this as a ploy to stop affordable housing development in his district.  

https://youtu.be/5vikkxDQpFg?t=3922 

Edited October 20, 2020 by smileguy

[spenser1058]

Affordable housing projects are being funded by OC in Pine Hills, Apopka and South Holden Heights:

https://bungalower.com/2021/10/18/orange-county-dedicates-13-million-to-affordable-housing/

From Bungalower

That’s an interesting location on W. Colonial - I wonder if it’s a refit of the old Ramada Inn?

[spenser1058]

Orlando proposes fee rebate for affordable housing builders:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orlando-fee-rebate-20220313-sqbozwbuwnhivaovrdecoie3vm-story.html

From The Sentinel 
 

 

[spenser1058]

Great news for two local Habitat For Humanity affiliates as they each receive huge grants from philanthropist Mackenzie Scott:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/real-estate/os-habitat-for-humanity-orlando-osceola-biggest-donation-ever-20220323-c4qasdzitjeqdcaj2qbjgkp4dy-story.html

From The Sentinel 

If you ever get a chance to work with or give to Habitat, please do. It’s a program that walks the walk (and it’s Jimmy Carter- approved!).
 

Edited March 23, 2022 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

I've done a little Habitat work over the years.  Not much, but a little.  Like most people, when you're a busy person it can be hard to do a lot unless you fully commit to it..  However, over the years it's been a great place to do a little good.

[spenser1058]

Disney has announced plans to build affordable housing in the Flamingo Crossing area of its property adjoining The Webster (FL 429).

Like the plans announced last week by Universal that have been in the works for a while, we don’t know if “affordable” means that except in the mind of some fevered developer (both projects will be built by developers - Universal’s announcement did not inspire much hope because it was larded with amenities that raise prices, but no prices announced so far).

This does amount to a change in the industry’s perspective, however. Since the earliest days of the Magic Kingdom, the parks have insisted housing is not their problem. More aggressive governance in LA (Uni) and Anaheim (Disney) has shown, however, it’s best to be proactive.

This is particularly true since the parks are already forcing hiring challenges and there are major new parks on the way. Political issues with immigration are not going to make hiring any easier and boomers will retire over the next decade in ever larger numbers.

Stay tuned.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-disney-announces-affordable-housing-20220406-rx4rrkqy4zeshkbynl3t4ko27y-story.html

From The Sentinel 

[jack]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Like the plans announced last week by Universal that have been in the works for a while, we don’t know if “affordable” means that except in the mind of some fevered developer (both projects will be built by developers - Universal’s announcement did not inspire much hope because it was larded with amenities that raise prices, but no prices announced so far).

There is a such thing as affordable housing developers. Their rents will be based off of the County's AMI. I don't know  the breakdown but it usually is a distribution 40%, 60% 80-% ami.  Some groups do all low income but I doubt Universal will allow that to happen. 

[AmIReal]

19% of houses sold in central Florida last year were bought by "investors". The area west of I4 averaged 36%.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/housing-market-investors/?itid=hp_temp2-subfavs

Per WaPo- "Neighborhoods where a majority of residents are Black have been heavily targeted, according to a Washington Post analysis of Redfin data. Last year, 30 percent of home sales in majority Black neighborhoods were to investors, compared with 12 percent in other Zip codes, The Post’s analysis shows.

Sherrod "Brown took direct aim at private equity firms and corporate landlords in particular". “They bought up properties, they raised rents, they cut services, they priced out family home buyers, and they forced renters out of their homes,”