Lake Ave. & Pine St. | 33-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[RedStar25]

7 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I have a feeling that those who say that Tampa's downtown is any better than Orlando's haven't really walked around there lately.  They just see the taller Tampa buildings, the Riverwalk/Amelie Arena areas, and the Water Street/Channelside development and think it is great for some reason. 

Tampa downtown is a disjointed mess of a place with a lot of one way streets, weird elevated streets blocking off convenient paths, not much street activation, rivers and channels literally separating different neighborhoods so that you have to take a car over a bridge to get there, etc.  

I was just there last week and I was shocked that it looks basically like 1996 still. Now the museum will be a nice addition.  

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, RedStar25 said:

I was just there last week and I was shocked that it looks basically like 1996 still. Now the museum will be a nice addition.  

It’s just never been the same without the peoplemover to Harbour Island…

[jgardnerucf]

3 hours ago, RedStar25 said:

St. Regis is cool.... The inside is in horrible shape. Like really bad, 

If dem walls could talk, whoo-weee.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I have a feeling that those who say that Tampa's downtown is any better than Orlando's haven't really walked around there lately.  They just see the taller Tampa buildings, the Riverwalk/Amelie Arena areas, and the Water Street/Channelside development and think it is great for some reason. 

Tampa downtown is a disjointed mess of a place with a lot of one way streets, weird elevated streets blocking off convenient paths, not much street activation, rivers and channels literally separating different neighborhoods so that you have to take a car over a bridge to get there, etc.  

Last time I was there and walked around, it just felt like a barren, sun baked  concrete and glass desert. Few if any big shady trees lining the sidewalks, or brick streets. No big shady park with a lake in the center. I envy their waterfront and proximity to the ocean, but that's all. 

[Uncommon]

5 hours ago, RedStar25 said:

At least we aren't Tampa. That city is just asleep at the wheel and the roads are a disaster. 

I'll take Orlando over Tampa any day. Tho I do love Hyde Park. 

This is a beautiful picture, but I disagree. I can't speak about the roads but I can at least say that downtown Tampa is enjoying a lot of investment while downtown Orlando is getting peanuts comparatively. I'm not sure how they're asleep at the wheel when they have billions upon billions being invested in their core by some enormous names (Vinik, Bill Gates, Darryl Shaw).

This is unrelated and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but idc: biggest thing I don't like about downtown Orlando is that it has a large, visible homeless and panhandler population. Sorry, but it's a major eyesore and buzzkill. Not sure how Tampa manages to help this group of people but they're doing much better in this regard than Orlando.

[Uncommon]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I have a feeling that those who say that Tampa's downtown is any better than Orlando's haven't really walked around there lately.  They just see the taller Tampa buildings, the Riverwalk/Amelie Arena areas, and the Water Street/Channelside development and think it is great for some reason. 

Tampa downtown is a disjointed mess of a place with a lot of one way streets, weird elevated streets blocking off convenient paths, not much street activation, rivers and channels literally separating different neighborhoods so that you have to take a car over a bridge to get there, etc.  

I mean, couldn't the same thing be said for Orlando? They just see Lake Eola and Thornton Park areas, and the Creative Village development and think it is great for some reason.

Orange Ave, Magnolia, and Garland are one-way and lack a lot of street activity too. It's not until you get to the nightclubs that Orange finally sees some street life, and most of it is pretty trashy and riffraffy. There's also the absolute disaster of I-4 running right through downtown and the horrors of the west side. If Mills 50 or Ivanhoe counted as downtown (some believe they do), then downtown Orlando would be much better. But right now, it's pretty ugly and seedy.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

4 hours ago, Uncommon said:

This is a beautiful picture, but I disagree. I can't speak about the roads but I can at least say that downtown Tampa is enjoying a lot of investment while downtown Orlando is getting peanuts comparatively. I'm not sure how they're asleep at the wheel when they have billions upon billions being invested in their core by some enormous names (Vinik, Bill Gates, Darryl Shaw).

This is unrelated and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but idc: biggest thing I don't like about downtown Orlando is that it has a large, visible homeless and panhandler population. Sorry, but it's a major eyesore and buzzkill. Not sure how Tampa manages to help this group of people but they're doing much better in this regard than Orlando.

This thread is pretty interesting. As someone born in Orlando, but Tampa feels like a second home. I actually like downtown Tampa and preferred to Orlando. They have their museums downtown. They have an actual rail line instead of a bus, they have a cruise port, they also have their convention center downtown. I don't know what it is but downtown Orlando just seems to be behind downtown Tampa and pretty soon downtown St Pete if not already.

[Uncommon]

7 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

This thread is pretty interesting. As someone born in Orlando, but Tampa feels like a second home. I actually like downtown Tampa and preferred to Orlando. They have their museums downtown. They have an actual rail line instead of a bus, they have a cruise port, they also have their convention center downtown. I don't know what it is but downtown Orlando just seems to be behind downtown Tampa and pretty soon downtown St Pete if not already.

Imo downtown St. Pete is miles ahead of downtown Orlando and downtown Tampa. It's easily the best large downtown in the state. It has almost everything a great downtown needs, except good public transportation.

And I didn't even think about how downtown Tampa has the trolley, water taxi, and cruise port. Those alone make it better than downtown Orlando. But when you add in Sparkman Wharf, Riverwalk, museums, easy proximity to Ybor and  Armature Works, a ferry to downtown St. Pete, and general cleanliness compared to the bums/panhandlers all over downtown Orlando, I'll take downtown Tampa every time.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

3 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Imo downtown St. Pete is miles ahead of downtown Orlando and downtown Tampa. It's easily the best large downtown in the state. It has almost everything a great downtown needs, except good public transportation.

And I didn't even think about how downtown Tampa has the trolley, water taxi, and cruise port. Those alone make it better than downtown Orlando. But when you add in Sparkman Wharf, Riverwalk, museums, easy proximity to Ybor and  Armature Works, a ferry to downtown St. Pete, and general cleanliness compared to the bums/panhandlers all over downtown Orlando, I'll take downtown Tampa every time.

Same here. I oftentimes at least twice a month to go to downtown St. Pete or downtown Tampa just to spend the day because there's so much to do. Between all the places you mentioned with Downtown Tampa, it just has more to offer. In my opinion. St. Petersburg has a tremendous waterfront park as well and Orlando just can't compete with the poopy swan Lake in the middle. Although I do love Lake Eola.

[Uncommon]

37 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Same here. I oftentimes at least twice a month to go to downtown St. Pete or downtown Tampa just to spend the day because there's so much to do. Between all the places you mentioned with Downtown Tampa, it just has more to offer. In my opinion. St. Petersburg has a tremendous waterfront park as well and Orlando just can't compete with the poopy swan Lake in the middle. Although I do love Lake Eola.

I love Lake Eola, but downtown Orlando just can't compete with all there is to do in DT Tampa or DTSP. Those downtowns are the centers of their cities, while DT isn't really THE place to be in Orlando. Orlando's problem is that everything is so spread out and downtown competes with the tourist district. Imagine Icon Park, Pointe Orlando, the convention center, and some of the best things about I-Drive being downtown instead of where they are. I'm not saying I want downtown Orlando to become downtown Nashville, but some investment, tourism, fun activities, and upscale dining would be nice over all the clubs, bars, and nastiness that it is right now.

 

[JFW657]

29 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

I love Lake Eola, but downtown Orlando just can't compete with all there is to do in DT Tampa or DTSP. Those downtowns are the centers of their cities, while DT isn't really THE place to be in Orlando. Orlando's problem is that everything is so spread out and downtown competes with the tourist district. Imagine Icon Park, Pointe Orlando, the convention center, and some of the best things about I-Drive being downtown instead of where they are. I'm not saying I want downtown Orlando to become downtown Nashville, but some investment, tourism, fun activities, and upscale dining would be nice over all the clubs, bars, and nastiness that it is right now.

 

If there was a market with profit potential for that stuff downtown, it would be there. 

[HankStrong]

I'm a little hung-up on how fat people in flip-flops at the airport change the population.  Do those people not count?

[jrs2]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:26 AM, Uncommon said:

I love Lake Eola, but downtown Orlando just can't compete with all there is to do in DT Tampa or DTSP. Those downtowns are the centers of their cities, while DT isn't really THE place to be in Orlando. Orlando's problem is that everything is so spread out and downtown competes with the tourist district. Imagine Icon Park, Pointe Orlando, the convention center, and some of the best things about I-Drive being downtown instead of where they are. I'm not saying I want downtown Orlando to become downtown Nashville, but some investment, tourism, fun activities, and upscale dining would be nice over all the clubs, bars, and nastiness that it is right now.

 

the Boom helped build some neighborhoods, and Bust took away some projects that would have made a difference back then moving forward.   Since then, a bunch of new projects took their respective places for better or worse.

what I've seen where Orlando has improved downtown has been with the construction of "Location/Pocket projects."  These projects are like The Yard and Condo right up at Lake Ivanhoe, the Novel Lucerne/ EarthFare building at Lake Lucerne/Gore, CV- UCF/ EA, etc.,  Radius/Hilton/Skyhouse, NORA/801/The Sevens/Steelhouse/Residence Inn, and SkyHouse, Artisan 420, 520 Church (which compliment Paramount/Publix & Sanctuary/101 Eola).  Those groupings of projects have literally created or solidified the bulk of those respective neighborhoods or pockets downtown- and as a result, they are full of activity.

You can't say enough about that.  I don't know what that means when drawing comparisons to Tampa, but as they say, real estate is unique.  True about all that Tampa has in and around downtown.  But I will say this, for example, the area surrounding their Courthouse is a zoo.  Compare that to the OCCthse neighborhood as it is now and how it will be in a year or so when Society finishes up and opens; that's like Beverly Hills comparatively.

Tampa has the Streetcar, but Orlando has the Lymmo Line.. (for better or worse for various reasons).

The the proposal for this thread, the 33 story Lake Ave & Pine project- this would add to a neighborhood pocket I listed above.

[AndyPok1]

Here's the thing... You can Uber to museums and daytime stuff. When I'm traveling I want my hotel within the nightlife. I don't want to deal with commuting while drunk. Last time I stayed in DT Tampa, I was livid when the Wharf had last call at 11pm. 

I'll take DT Orlando 1000 times over DT Tampa.

[AmIReal]

I don't think there is a lot of new info in this GS story except the developer is now saying JW Marriott would be the anchor. Summa Development is "seeking a major certificate of appearance approval for the project, which includes the luxury hotel, a convention center and JW Marriott branded residences — a combination of 102 condominiums and 27 penthouse units over the hotel."

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-orlando-downtown-jwmarriott-hotel-convention-center-chihuly-20220815-xgkzj4ij35bthfbevd44phm7au-story.html

 

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, AmIReal said:

I don't think there is a lot of new info in this GS story except the developer is now saying JW Marriott would be the anchor. Summa Development is "seeking a major certificate of appearance approval for the project, which includes the luxury hotel, a convention center and JW Marriott branded residences — a combination of 102 condominiums and 27 penthouse units over the hotel."

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-orlando-downtown-jwmarriott-hotel-convention-center-chihuly-20220815-xgkzj4ij35bthfbevd44phm7au-story.html

For real?  A JW in downtown?

Spenser!  Spenser!  Tell Buddy to back off the bars; we is  gettin' very cosmopolitan  now...uh huh!  Recognize!

[IAmFloridaBorn]

3 hours ago, AmIReal said:

I don't think there is a lot of new info in this GS story except the developer is now saying JW Marriott would be the anchor. Summa Development is "seeking a major certificate of appearance approval for the project, which includes the luxury hotel, a convention center and JW Marriott branded residences — a combination of 102 condominiums and 27 penthouse units over the hotel."

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-orlando-downtown-jwmarriott-hotel-convention-center-chihuly-20220815-xgkzj4ij35bthfbevd44phm7au-story.html

 

I saw this yesterday. None of these tall towers are happening. I won't believe anything until I see a fence and dirt move. Otherwise it's all a redundant cycle to keep saying they're going to do this and they're going to do that when they are going to do a damn thing

[jrs2]

8 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I saw this yesterday. None of these tall towers are happening. I won't believe anything until I see a fence and dirt move. Otherwise it's all a redundant cycle to keep saying they're going to do this and they're going to do that when they are going to do a damn thing

where have you been?

[IAmFloridaBorn]

54 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

where have you been?

New career path. And there's nothing much more for me to take pictures of downtown at the moment.

[spenser1058]

13 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

New career path. And there's nothing much more for me to take pictures of downtown at the moment.

I do miss your pics but congrats on the new career!

[dcluley98]

Truist Plaza phase II is happening.  Don't know the time-line, but that is one I would expect to see permits and activity on soon, probably early 2023.  A couple of months ago Lincoln said "breaking ground 3rd quarter 2023"  but these things are usually always delayed a couple of months, so I would expect 4th quarter/end of year or early 2023.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html

https://www.bakerbarrios.com/2022/05/09/downtown-orlando-skyscraper-the-edge-gets-timeline-for-construction/

Lincoln Property Co. plans to start construction on its future 32-story skyscraper, which it has named The Edge, in the third quarter this year.  According to Aaron Dan, Lincoln Property Company's  senior vice president of commercial real estate brokerage services, the space is 65%-70% committed. "It's very exciting. The majority of interest we're getting and who we're in discussions with is tenants in the tech industry who are out of market."

"Once the tower breaks ground, they anticipate a two-year construction period before a possible delivery in 2024."

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by dcluley98

[jrs2]

33 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Truist Plaza phase II is happening.  Don't know the time-line, but that is one I would expect to see permits and activity on soon, probably early 2023.  A couple of months ago Lincoln said "breaking ground 3rd quarter 2023"  but these things are usually always delayed a couple of months, so I would expect 4th quarter/end of year or early 2023.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html

https://www.bakerbarrios.com/2022/05/09/downtown-orlando-skyscraper-the-edge-gets-timeline-for-construction/

Lincoln Property Co. plans to start construction on its future 32-story skyscraper, which it has named The Edge, in the third quarter this year.  According to Aaron Dan, Lincoln Property Company's  senior vice president of commercial real estate brokerage services, the space is 65%-70% committed. "It's very exciting. The majority of interest we're getting and who we're in discussions with is tenants in the tech industry who are out of market."

"Once the tower breaks ground, they anticipate a two-year construction period before a possible delivery in 2024."

 

when they say out of market, do they mean the downtown market or outside of CFLA?

[AmIReal]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

when they say out of market, do they mean the downtown market or outside of CFLA?

That term, in this article, implies out of the central florida market.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

8 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Truist Plaza phase II is happening.  Don't know the time-line, but that is one I would expect to see permits and activity on soon, probably early 2023.  A couple of months ago Lincoln said "breaking ground 3rd quarter 2023"  but these things are usually always delayed a couple of months, so I would expect 4th quarter/end of year or early 2023.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html

https://www.bakerbarrios.com/2022/05/09/downtown-orlando-skyscraper-the-edge-gets-timeline-for-construction/

Lincoln Property Co. plans to start construction on its future 32-story skyscraper, which it has named The Edge, in the third quarter this year.  According to Aaron Dan, Lincoln Property Company's  senior vice president of commercial real estate brokerage services, the space is 65%-70% committed. "It's very exciting. The majority of interest we're getting and who we're in discussions with is tenants in the tech industry who are out of market."

"Once the tower breaks ground, they anticipate a two-year construction period before a possible delivery in 2024."

 

Well that birghtens my day. I was giving up on them and that SunRail station.

[jrs2]

19 hours ago, AmIReal said:

That term, in this article, implies out of the central florida market.

yeah, I'm getting tired of the office park poaching...

23 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Truist Plaza phase II is happening.  Don't know the time-line, but that is one I would expect to see permits and activity on soon, probably early 2023.  A couple of months ago Lincoln said "breaking ground 3rd quarter 2023"  but these things are usually always delayed a couple of months, so I would expect 4th quarter/end of year or early 2023.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html

https://www.bakerbarrios.com/2022/05/09/downtown-orlando-skyscraper-the-edge-gets-timeline-for-construction/

Lincoln Property Co. plans to start construction on its future 32-story skyscraper, which it has named The Edge, in the third quarter this year.  According to Aaron Dan, Lincoln Property Company's  senior vice president of commercial real estate brokerage services, the space is 65%-70% committed. "It's very exciting. The majority of interest we're getting and who we're in discussions with is tenants in the tech industry who are out of market."

"Once the tower breaks ground, they anticipate a two-year construction period before a possible delivery in 2024."

 

great news...but can you move this into the CSP Phase II thread?  gracias...

I'm still shell shocked that a JW Marriott may actually come downtown as part of this project (in this thread)...