CTC Redevelopment - Crescent, BPR & Whitepoint Proposals for Transit Center Redo + More

[kermit]

Ugh. Danny Pleasant is on the bird app suggesting that the Denver underground transit hub at Union station is a good model to emulate. I walked through there in February and I gotta say it is definitely NOT something Charlotte should be aiming for. It was serving as a defacto homeless shelter (it was very cold out) and shooting gallery (they closed the public restrooms because there was measurable fentanyl on many of the surfaces). It appeared that most folks wanting to actually catch a bus did so at a nearby outdoor stop. 

I REALLY hope designers of this are taking a broader view than trying to emulate places they have never visited.

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by kermit

[tozmervo]

12 minutes ago, kermit said:

Ugh. Danny Pleasant is on the bird app suggesting that the Denver underground transit hub at Union station is a good model to emulate. I walked through there in February and I gotta say it is definitely NOT something Charlotte should be aiming for. It was serving as a defacto homeless shelter (it was very cold out) and shooting gallery (they closed the public restrooms because there was measurable fentanyl on many of the surfaces). It appeared that most folks wanting to actually catch a bus did so at a nearby outdoor stop. 

I REALLY hope designers of this are taking a broader view than mentioning places they have heard about but never visited.

This is exactly my fear with the proposal. 

[B Randy]

Shoving everything into an underground station w/ a portal up to the surface.   Limited natural light.  Not a great recipe no matter how you dress it up (especially in this climate).

[videtur quam contuor]

What would the bus riders say about this design if consulted? (They should be consulted)

[Guest]

The Hornets part may or may not have come together very shortly before the presentation.

[DonkeyKong]

I’m protransit, but the transit center should be intermodal at gateway center.  Makes our transit options disjointed…,imo.  Plus I think it would increase gold line usage if it were at gateway.  Not a fan of this project as it exists today.

[JRCLT]

Shoving everything into an underground station w/ a portal up to the surface.   Limited natural light.  Not a great recipe no matter how you dress it up (especially in this climate).

What makes you think above ground with natural light would do better than underground? Because right now it is above ground and it is demonstrated to have the traits some others fear the underground one will have. Design is very key here with lighting and layout to prevent certain unpleasant activities. How does underground negatively affect it versus above? Or is this just speculation based on other underground hubs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m protransit, but the transit center should be intermodal at gateway center.  Makes our transit options disjointed…,imo.  Plus I think it would increase gold line usage if it were at gateway.  Not a fan of this project as it exists today.

What about the blue line? Gateway I’m pretty will have a smaller hub, but I wouldn’t say it only NEEDS to be there… the bus system is decentralizing as well so it’s not as big of necessity to only have one location. Doing so would technically go against the bus rerouting and overhaul.

[Mid South NC]

 

Details: The new CTC would consist of two towers, featuring street-level retail, the Hornets’ $60 million practice facility, plus hotel rooms, offices or residential units.

• The Hornets’ new two-court practice facility would slide between the two towers.
• The city received three unsolicited bids for the project, and selected Dallas-based Dart Interests and White Point Partners. The latter is a Charlotte-based development group who transformed Optimist Hall.

Yes, but: Plan B for a new practice facility is the gravel lot on Caldwell Street across from Spectrum Center.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Mid South NC

[atlrvr]

Maybe reading too much into it, but why the Jumpman logo?  Is Nike/Jordan Brand opening a corporate office?

This thought led my to think Charlotte would be a decent location for brands to open College Athletic branding offices now that it's permitted.

[JRCLT]

They also really seem to want to do that arch for CTC station with some signage too… would be interesting to have that and have it lit up too.

[SydneycartonII]

This is really amazing.  What’s the likelihood that this will start soon and without an anchor tenant?

[KJHburg]

4 minutes ago, SydneycartonII said:

This is really amazing.  What’s the likelihood that this will start soon and without an anchor tenant?

that is my concern.  I would say no start without an anchor.  However the base could be built with the bus depot and hornets facility and wait until an anchor.  I dont see a large unanchored office building starting anytime soon in this city anywhere and large I mean bigger than 500K sq ft.  

To me this would be great location for Bank of America if they needed the space.  

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

1 hour ago, atlrvr said:

Maybe reading too much into it, but why the Jumpman logo?  Is Nike/Jordan Brand opening a corporate office?

This thought led my to think Charlotte would be a decent location for brands to open College Athletic branding offices now that it's permitted.

Would be awesome if we could have a “Jordan” experience store/museum to anchor this as one of the main retail spots. Similar to those cool experiences we had when the NBA all star game was here, we’d have a permanent, interactive, museum/store. Limited edition releases of shoes and other items unique to only this store. I hated when the all star game left and all the cool exhibits and pop up stores went away.  People travelled from all over the globe to Charlotte for the all star weekend just for these limited releases of shoes and other apparel.  This would be a big draw. 
 

Some reports have talked about coupling this with an epicentre redo as well. Would love to hear or see some ideas of a future state of the epicentre as well someday. Also, looks like Moxy could potentially be in a very prime location down the road. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[SydneycartonII]

57 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

that is my concern.  I would say no start without an anchor.  However the base could be built with the bus depot and hornets facility and wait until an anchor.  I dont see a large unanchored office building starting anytime soon in this city anywhere and large I mean bigger than 500K sq ft.  

To me this would be great location for Bank of America if they needed the space.  

Thanks!  You’ve got to love Charlotte!

I had to start a new account because I was unable to post on the Charlotte forum for some reason.

Edited June 7, 2022 by SydneycartonII

[kayman]

7 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Would be awesome if we could have a “Jordan” experience store/museum to anchor this as one of the main retail spots. Similar to those cool experiences we had when the NBA all star game was here, we’d have a permanent, interactive, museum/store. Limited edition releases of shoes and other items unique to only this store. I hated when the all star game left and all the cool exhibits and pop up stores went away.  People travelled from all over the globe to Charlotte for the all star weekend just for these limited releases of shoes and other apparel.  This would be a big draw. 
 

Some reports have talked about coupling this with an epicentre redo as well. Would love to hear or see some ideas of a future state of the epicentre as well someday. Also, looks like Moxy could potentially be in a very prime location down the road. 

 

8 hours ago, JeanClt said:

They also really seem to want to do that arch for CTC station with some signage too… would be interesting to have that and have it lit up too.

I believe that might be in the works. Nike regional offices for the college basketball and other collegiate sports divisions based in CLT would diversify our regional offices and corporate presence here. Atlanta thinks it suppose to host everything in this part of the Southeast but Charlotte has something to say otherwise. 

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

that is my concern.  I would say no start without an anchor.  However the base could be built with the bus depot and hornets facility and wait until an anchor.  I dont see a large unanchored office building starting anytime soon in this city anywhere and large I mean bigger than 500K sq ft.  

To me this would be great location for Bank of America if they needed the space.  

BOA should sit this development out and focus elsewhere. We need more diversification of our offices and corporate footprint. Everything cannot be BOA or financial in Uptown. 

[JRCLT]

Truist…? I mean currently they have ~2000 corporate jobs and have ~2300 more postings but I t was set to host ~13000 employees in Charlotte or so I’ve read. It is a long ways from that goal.

[Norm2]

2 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Truist…? I mean currently they have ~2000 corporate jobs and have ~2300 more postings but I t was set to host ~13000 employees in Charlotte or so I’ve read. It is a long ways from that goal.

I'm sure covid put a wrench in those plans

[CLT2014]

From people that work at Truist, I've heard they've slowed relocations partially due to COVID, but also partially due to a lot of people would rather quit than move from cities like Atlanta and Winston. In this job market + hybrid workforce, the institutional knowledge of people that have been at BB&T or SunTrust for years is worth too much to lose them due to a forced relocation where they hand in their notice. They'll just be replaced by somebody less qualified and takes 6+ months to onboard. The job will probably be vacant for months given the saturation of open jobs in banking in the Charlotte market due to low unemployment... and they may get 3 - 4 qualified applicants over those months. 

Hence the Charlotte corporate office for Truist is largely a "backfill" location, very senior leaders forced to move, and job postings are either for natural growth or back filling somebody that quit in another city. So the Digital Product Manager for Credit Card currently lives in Atlanta and the role will be there so long as that guy is in that role. He's made it clear he's staying in Atlanta due to family, kids education, friends, et... If he quits, retires, moves to another role, et... they will then backfill that role in Charlotte. They don't want that person to quit though due to relocation and lose talent in <5% unemployment. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by CLT2014

[JRCLT]

I'm sure covid put a wrench in those plans

Yeah wouldn’t expect that many but still much more than currently.

[SydneycartonII]

City staff on Monday shared a glimpse of a proposed Charlotte Hornets practice facility in uptown. Early renderings show a high-rise building for the NBA team where the existing Charlotte Transportation Center stands today, towering over the Spectrum Center. The images stem from a proposal by the Hornets and city of Charlotte staff last week to make $215 million in Spectrum Center renovations along with a $60 million practice facility that would be paid for by naming rights for a proposed new sports and entertainment district in the surrounding area.

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/development/article262221682.html#storylink=cpy

Edited June 7, 2022 by SydneycartonII

[JRCLT]

From the Charlotte Ledger: “Yaffe said Charlotte should consider returning to the earlier model. He said it’s not necessary for large cities to even have a main bus station. Think about major cities with large transit systems, like New York.

New York has the Port Authority for regional buses — but there is no central bus station for local buses. The same is true for London and Paris.

Yaffe said Charlotte buses could just have various stops uptown — perhaps on Tryon Street, or perhaps on College or Church streets. If people needed to transfer, they would just walk a block or two to a different stop.

Some CATS express buses already operate that way today. They may make a stop at the CTC, but it isn’t their final destination. And CATS has been trying to move away from an uptown-focused, “hub-and-spoke” route system for years.

Removing the bus station would create some logistical challenges, Yaffe said, like finding a place for drivers to use the bathroom. But those could be solved, he said.”

True. Charlotte has been decentralizing the bus system. Also considering adding bathrooms at key stops on bus routes creating transit nodes. Such as the mobility centers and plazas recommendation in Envision my ride.

https://envision-my-ride-bus-priority-study-1-charlotte.hub.arcgis.com/pages/studyrecommendations

CTC won’t be a great place above or below ground and will be magnet for unsightly things that we’d rather not see when taking transit. Either way not having one really is something to consider now that I’m thinking about it.

[Madison Parkitect]

Charlotte absolutely doesn't need a central terminal in Uptown. It's a much, much better system to have your terminals be at park-and-rides in the outer areas and then have everything just cycle through the city, stopping at on-street stops. With Charlotte's size and amount of routes, you could easily put the stops along two or three streets uptown and get everyone where they need to go even quicker.

[JRCLT]

If possible those 15 million plus the sale of land could go a long way to help pay for the improvements to the bus system and helping pay for those mobility centers and plazas as well as more benches and shelters across smaller stops.

[tozmervo]

Per today's Charlotte Ledger, Transit Time edition: 

[SydneycartonII]

From the June 13, 2022 edition of the Observer.  This is the first photo I’ve seen of the tower from the west.  It looks great.

Edited June 13, 2022 by SydneycartonII