Church Street Plaza | 32-Story Hotel/Apt & Re-work of Former CSS Retail/Event Space [Phases 2/3 Planning Phase]

[leondecollao 102]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I don't know y'all, I just don't see people going out of their way to drive to destination restaurants during a pandemic, which is why a lot of the places are closing.  Will it recover, of course eventually. But why locate on Church street now when there is little going on around and not the critical mass there once was?  I guess it depends on timing around things opening back up, the Magic games and events returning to Amway, and Orlando City pre-events, etc. as well as the future Under-I and MEC projects. 

Long term, the food hall will work out. But right now? 

I might just be projecting, but I do not go drive to restaurants at all right now and haven't for a while. I go get pick-up and take out and have gone to some that have outdoor seating such as Luke's and Rusteak, but I'm not driving to and walking into a food hall. 

 

Completely agree with your point that opening now would be disastrous but no one is talking about opening now. It’s going to be a while before this thing opens and we will hopefully have mass immunity by then. 

[prahaboheme 1691]

CSS was successful in its heyday when it was a mix of chain restaurants and local stores / vendors. Times have changed of course but I think the parking situation is not really the issue — the issue is that CSS hasnt managed to maintain relevance while other parts of downtown have transformed.  Hamburger Mary’s has had a very successful run on Church Street — the irony being that they are getting the boot for a concept that may or may not be successful there.

What’s more — folks can rightly so blame Disney for the demise of CSS with the opening of downtown Disney yet that even went out of fashion and needed a total overhaul.

I doubt CSS would still be a popular place in 2021 without the competition if it didn’t keep up with emerging trends (another example of this is Old Town).

Edited January 23 by prahaboheme

[IAmFloridaBorn 1822]

Is this project still happening in y’all’s opinion?

[dcluley98 3463]

IMO, CSP 2 will happen, in a different form, a long time from now, with hopefully a better design. 

BTW, glad to see another y'all. 

[AmIReal 1067]

2 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Is this project still happening in y’all’s opinion?

If you're asking about the food hall, then yes it will happen. They are beginning build out next month. If you're asking about the 2nd tower then I agree with dcluley that it will be done, but quite not anytime soon. Office space in downtown is going to be harder to move for the next few years. 

[prahaboheme 1691]

I have just heard (in the last hour or so) that Hamburger Marys reached a deal and the lease is extended for at least the next 2 years.

Additionally, Parliament House is looking for a downtown location.

[spenser1058 5428]

19 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I have just heard (in the last hour or so) that Hamburger Marys reached a deal and the lease is extended for at least the next 2 years.

Additionally, Parliament House is looking for a downtown location.

Will PH be nearly as interesting without Balcony Bingo? Enquiring minds want to know....

[JFW657 4570]

So I guess PH planning to ditch the hotel operations?

I don't know of anything they can convert into a hotel, unless they are just going to be a nightclub.

 

[F-L-A 29]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

CSP 2 will happen, in a different form, a long time from now, with a much shorter design. 

FTFY

Edited January 23 by F-L-A

[spenser1058 5428]

35 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

So I guess PH planning to ditch the hotel operations?

I don't know of anything they can convert into a hotel, unless they are just going to be a nightclub.

 

That’s my assumption. If only they hadn’t torn down the TraveLodge! If Don Granatstein didn’t have such a shady financial background, I would have thought the answer would be to go for the old Holiday Inn at 50 and Westmoreland and build a new show bar complex across the street on McNamara’s old lot.

15 minutes ago, F-L-A said:

FTFY

It’s the Orlando way!

Edited January 23 by spenser1058

[JFW657 4570]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s my assumption. If only they hadn’t torn down the TraveLodge! If Don Granatstein didn’t have such a shady financial background, I would have thought the answer would be to go for the old Holiday Inn at 50 and Westmoreland and build a new show bar complex across the street on McNamara’s old lot.

I'm thinking maybe the Firestone building?

Possibly a renovation and repurposing of The Exchange building back to entertainment?

The ballroom/Club Paris?

[spenser1058 5428]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I'm thinking maybe the Firestone building?

Possibly a renovation and repurposing of The Exchange building back to entertainment?

The ballroom/Club Paris?

The Firestone would be fun - it gives a new meaning to “getting your oil changed”! (Which, of course I literally did when it was still a Firestone tire store in the ‘80’s).

The Firestone is historic (it was actually designed by Harvey F. Himself) and was replicated at various points along the old Dixie Highway.

A use of the bully pulpit: Mayor Bill, as he was working to restore the core, got Firestone to refurbish it right down to period-dressed mannequins in the waiting area.

[bqknight 719]

2 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The Firestone would be fun - it gives a new meaning to “getting your oil changed”! (Which, of course I literally did when it was still a Firestone tire store in the ‘80’s).

The Firestone is historic (it was actually designed by Harvey F. Himself) and was replicated at various points along the old Dixie Highway.

A use of the bully pulpit: Mayor Bill, as he was working to restore the core, got Firestone to refurbish it right down to period-dressed mannequins in the waiting area.

Firestone was just refurbished and is now “The Vanguard”. They have a deal with Insomniac (owners of EDC) and have been holding regular concerts. Diplo will be here on February 5th. 
 

I would love for Parliament to move into the Ceviche space. I think having that name there would bring lots of locals to the area...at night anyway. 

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

Another nightclub

[spenser1058 5428]

14 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Another nightclub

Generally, I would tend to agree but PH is iconic* and, although most of the clubs downtown are pretty diverse, it would be the predominantly gay one;

That also has an ancillary feature- one reason Hamburger Mary’s has been the successful holdout on Church St. is that, from the very beginning, the GLBTQ+ community did everything possible to support it. That kind of loyalty (much to the chagrin of Bob Snow) is something we need to jump-start downtown again.

* One question I have is whether, like Cheyenne, it’s impossible to make lightning strike twice. If it’s just a pale imitation (with just a logo stuck on a generic club), it may not work.

Edited January 24 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

Ok I get that, but I would prefer that downtown become more sophisticated. I’m not being judgmental and I’m not religious but downtown looks like a madhouse. More museums,  art galleries, shows, and eateries is what I want.

Edited January 24 by Urban Mail Carrier

[JFW657 4570]

And of course........ more retail.

 

[spenser1058 5428]

1 hour ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Ok I get that, but I would prefer that downtown become more sophisticated. I’m not being judgmental and I’m not religious but downtown looks like a madhouse. More museums,  art galleries, shows, and eateries is what I want.

When the restoration of historic downtown first got started, I think what we hoped for was the sort of all-encompassing experience you mention.

Fast forward to 40 years later and I think we’re headed in a different direction. This administration doesn’t seem to have a vision for downtown. As a result, the market is following the path of least resistance. What that seems to be is a downtown whose residents are 20-somethings, either in college or just moving on to their career paths.

The assumption way back when was that the  close in single family neighborhoods would provide the vehicle for folks to settle down as their incomes grew and the folks in the downtown apartments established relationships and thought about having kids.

We thought that with the resurgence of downtown retail, good schools and urban churches, those folks would remain tied to the downtown core. Instead, as folks move further from downtown proper, they are establishing their “third-place” lives  away from the core.

I don’t know if that default lifestyle is now pretty much set in stone but downtown is moving quickly in that direction today. If that occurs, think of downtown being more of a vertical Alafaya Trail than a cross between College Park and Winter Park.

 

Edited January 24 by spenser1058

[Uncommon 410]

3 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Ok I get that, but I would prefer that downtown become more sophisticated. I’m not being judgmental and I’m not religious but downtown looks like a madhouse. More museums,  art galleries, shows, and eateries is what I want.

Agreed 100%.

[AndyPok1 995]

I know I'm the outlier as usual.  But I largely don't see this phenomenon of people moving away from downtown.  Orlando is not NYC or Chicago.  There are urban neighborhoods with single family homes.  If you have the option to raise kids with a backyard versus in a high rise, I think that's a pretty easy decision.  But that doesn't mean that the people are moving to the sprawl like what was happening 15-30 years ago.

I'm 2 miles as the crow flies from Orange/Central.  Others in my friend group are 2.12, 2.05, 1.54, 1.3, 1.05.  I believe @codypet is like 1.8.  We have a whole community just south of the 408.  And guess what, Casey's is still our primary hangout (post-covid fingers crossed).

When you have this housing stock available, it's just a better financial and livelihood decision than buying a condo in Solaire and paying a $600 HOA.  We spent our 5-10 years renting and saving up for a down payment, and now we're still only a long walk or a short uber (OR SCOOTER) away.

Sure, I want there to be more things downtown that are "high" culture.  But guess what.  I've been to the Morse museum once in 8 years.  That's not going to give street level activation the way bars do.

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

8 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Fast forward to 40 years later and I think we’re headed in a different direction. This administration doesn’t seem to have a vision for downtown. As a result, the market is following the path of least resistance. What that seems to be is a downtown whose residents are 20-somethings, either in college or just moving on to their career paths.

I agree with this statement! We are in need of a new vision, leadership, or direction. Thank you Mayor Dyer we are grateful for your contribution and your legacy will be noted but PLEASE pass down the baton.

[Jernigan 2662]

6 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I agree with this statement! We are in need of a new vision, leadership, or direction. Thank you Mayor Dyer we are grateful for your contribution and your legacy will be noted but PLEASE pass down the baton.

What are your top 2-3 emerging downtowns for families?

[dcluley98 3463]

I, for one, just want more Easter Bunny brawls. 

[JFW657 4570]

Don't we all?

[Urban Mail Carrier 233]

21 hours ago, Jernigan said:

What are your top 2-3 emerging downtowns for families?

You know that’s a good question. Tampa comes to mind,  its the only EMERGING city that I’ve  really explored. The downtown has many elements in place; college campus, museums, water front with a board walk and Water taxis, an Urban Market, railroad tracks for a future transportation system and interesting eateries. However it’s not quite there yet it’s missing that nightlife, u know the one that Orlando has in a lopsided fashion. This Urban Planner wannabe and architecture enthusiast admires mid tiered  cities like Boston, Pittsburgh, and Charlotte.  I realize they are not emerging cities but they are cities not to far from a population perspective; and cities that Orlando can grow up to be.  
         Please understand  that I’m not a boring dud. I enjoy breweries and a good nightclub. Definitely keep the college kid, young professional activities but I feel DT Orlando has gone all in on nightclubs and it feels lopsided. I don’t necessarily feel that our downtown needs to cater exclusively to families. The DT needs to be more balanced. What’s missing for sure are family activities, just look at Lake Eola at how saturated it is with families strolling around the lake. So there is demand out there,  in fact that’s really the only family activity available. To draw more families this is what I would do, pursue a Real Zoo, an Aquarium, please touch museum ,  take OMA under its wing and grant them a sweet deal like the Holocaust museum, open an Urban Market like all the big cities. Philadelphia has the Reading Terminal, Toronto the St Lawrence Market, London has the green Market, etc...Incorpórate an elevated downtown pedestrian bridge that circumferences the downtown area. Like a mini version of the French Promenade or the NYC High Line or Philadelphia Rail Park. It can connect all the small parks within the DT. It can also feed off Lake Eola and connect to the Colonial drive pedestrian bridge. Plant greenery into the bridge and LED LIGHTS so that can ppl can stroll around DT,and  joggers can enjoy a good workout. It would be something unique and aesthetically pleasing to talk about.