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Church Street Plaza | 32-Story Hotel/Apt & Re-work of Former CSS Retail/Event Space [Phases 2/3 Planning Phase]


HankStrong

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On 3/5/2022 at 10:00 AM, jliv said:


I loved the original design, but it was probably too adventurous (and maybe too expensive) for the tenants Lincoln is pursuing. However, the problem with the building is the complete lack of imagination in dealing with an apparent requirement for lots of open space through balconies and terraces to enjoy the Florida weather. The lighting fixtures in the nighttime rendering really accentuates those flaws. Something more beautiful is demonstrated with a couple of my favorite residential buildings in the world, in Milan:

837015a0403d81d53abeb85ad39c5804.jpg

The urban “landscaping” in this may have sustainability issues in a hotter climate like Orlando, but the random positioning of the balconies are interesting to the eye. You see a lot of this “green” architecture in South America, but I don’t think it would look out of place in Florida. However, it’s a Dallas developer behind this project, and no one would accuse Dallas of being a hotbed of imagination. Since “The Edge” is a split between office and apartments, they could get away with something more interesting on faces of the top portion.

I’m also a fan of curves, as shown in this recent office development near Zoo station in Berlin:

ce5677cfebf5183618c92d5831ee4292.jpg

Why doesn’t BB just start copying European architects, instead of those in Atlanta and Dallas? (For the record, I do love what I still think of as “SunBank Center” or even the new Truist building) Not so much the First FA building, Solaire, or (bleeech) 55 West.


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If we do, will we get a value-engineered version of The Gherkin?

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So there’s a new OBJ article with supposedly some updates from Lincoln on this project. It’s behind the paywall. Can anyone summarize here? https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=EX&utm_content=or&ana=e_or_EX&j=27593150&senddate=2022-05-04

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21 minutes ago, Tim3167 said:

So there’s a new OBJ article with supposedly some updates from Lincoln on this project. It’s behind the paywall. Can anyone summarize here? https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/04/lincoln-property-co-shares-updated-construction-ti.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=EX&utm_content=or&ana=e_or_EX&j=27593150&senddate=2022-05-04

Disable Javascript and go back to website......it gets you by the paywall

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27 minutes ago, JFW657 said:
  • Construction expected to start 3rd quarter this year.
  • Seven stories office space, 240 residential units totalling 198,800 sf.
  • Ten story garage with signage naming rights facing I-4 
  • 100% touch free environment
  • Cost in excess of $100 million
  • Planned "super block" to include access to rail station, Bumby Arcade food court and updated Cheyenne Saloon
  • Office space is 65 - 70% preleased
  • Offices to have open air balconies
  • Six themed, high concept bars to open in DTO this year with five on Church St. 

.

This is really awesome, except for the ten story parking garage, obviously.

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7 hours ago, gibby said:

This is really awesome, except for the ten story parking garage, obviously.

What? Why? 

We absolutely need more parking downtown. It's not a stand alone garage like the uncreative village projects. So that's a win. 

Edited by IAmFloridaBorn
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9 hours ago, JFW657 said:
  • Construction expected to start 3rd quarter this year.
  • Seven stories office space, 240 residential units totalling 198,800 sf.
  • Ten story garage with signage naming rights facing I-4 
  • 100% touch free environment
  • Cost in excess of $100 million
  • Planned "super block" to include access to rail station, Bumby Arcade food court and updated Cheyenne Saloon
  • Office space is 65 - 70% preleased
  • Offices to have open air balconies
  • Six themed, high concept bars to open in DTO this year with five on Church St. 

.

So based on a Google search, the third quarter is between July 1st and sometime in September. This is the same time the second phase of that uncreative village is supposed to start as well. It will be pretty awesome to have all of those cranes going at one time. Will be like the mid 2000s again

Just now, IAmFloridaBorn said:

So based on a Google search, the third quarter is between July 1st and sometime in September. This is the same time the second phase of that uncreative village is supposed to start as well. It will be pretty awesome to have all of those cranes going at one time. Will be like the mid 2000s again

 

Screenshot_20220504-205907.png

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4 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

So based on a Google search, the third quarter is between July 1st and sometime in September. This is the same time the second phase of that uncreative village is supposed to start as well. It will be pretty awesome to have all of those cranes going at one time. Will be like the mid 2000s again

 

Screenshot_20220504-205907.png

In the first quarter, we had negative economic growth. If that happens in Q2, we’re officially in a recession.

While I suspect the parks are doing enough expansion to keep us from the worst of it, I wonder if that will reach downtown. It will be interesting to watch

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22 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

In the first quarter, we had negative economic growth. If that happens in Q2, we’re officially in a recession.

While I suspect the parks are doing enough expansion to keep us from the worst of it, I wonder if that will reach downtown. It will be interesting to watch

Well OBJ stated in the article downtown is doing a better job than 2021. So yes 2023 things should get into motion.

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From what I have seen, there are several well-capitalized developers hovering around high-growth urban areas trying to front-run inflation and construction costs. 

We are one of them. 

There will certainly be a bust eventually, and there are several "pipe-dream-BS" proposals out there, but I have seen several legit projects come through that have the cash and have done the homework. 

(Not talking about the Magic or Ponte-health or the beotchs that cut down the tree)

Edited by dcluley98
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On 5/4/2022 at 12:07 PM, gibby said:

This is really awesome, except for the ten story parking garage, obviously.

 

17 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

What? Why? 

We absolutely need more parking downtown. It's not a stand alone garage like the uncreative village projects. So that's a win. 

 

Yeah, I'm in agreement with IAFB on this.  A stand-alone? NO! One that is incorporated into a building?  SURE!  That's just more parking that is needed.

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As Orange County Commissioner (and Chairman) Lou Treadway (a Republican, no less!) pointed out, every parking space downtown is one more person not using transit. We need to decide which is our priority (and the direction has been mostly toward being more autocentric). After forty years of back and forth on this, we’ve refused to decide, and it shows.

If you want folks to live downtown in actual residences instead of transient rentals for 20-somethings, it ain’t going to happen if they can just hop in their car from the ‘burbs.

 

Edited by spenser1058
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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

As Orange County Commissioner (and Chairman) Lou Treadway (a Republican, no less!) pointed out, every parking space downtown is one more person not using transit. We need to decide which is our priority (and the direction has been mostly toward being more autocentric). After forty years of back and forth on this, we’ve refused to decide, and it shows.

If you want folks to live downtown in actual residences instead of transient rentals for 20-somethings, it ain’t going to happen if they can just hop in their car from the ‘burbs.

 

I knew there was good in you, Spenser!

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Per Lincoln, by way of OBJ, the Bumby Food Hall is fully leased (18 vendors), buildout will begin Q3 and expect completion Spring '23. No names of vendors were listed, but they "indicated they include 15 dining options and three concepts serving alcohol — a microbrewery, a cocktail and wine area and a speakeasy."

The project also includes 16k sqft meeting room upstairs. Re: Cheyenne's, Lincoln "said the firm is looking at potentially working with an experienced live entertainment operator, to create a venue similar to what Cheyenne Saloon once was, as well as several breweries. A combination of the two is a possibility, as well."

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/06/lincoln-property-cos-bumby-arcade-food-hall-is-100.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=5#cxrecs_s

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On 5/5/2022 at 1:26 PM, HankStrong said:

 

 

Yeah, I'm in agreement with IAFB on this.  A stand-alone? NO! One that is incorporated into a building?  SURE!  That's just more parking that is needed.

However I will say, that the new garage at the new Orthopedic Tower at FH South is painted dark grey and I absolutely adore it.  If I was Mayor, I would mandate all similarly sized garages to be painted dark grey.  It gets lost in the shuffle; it really does.

I am so over this beige BS.

As for CSP or Truist Plaza, I think they need to recolor the east side dark grey. It goes better with the metal and blue glass than beige.

Am I the only one here that's sick of beige?

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1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

However I will say, that the new garage at the new Orthopedic Tower at FH South is painted dark grey and I absolutely adore it.  If I was Mayor, I would mandate all similarly sized garages to be painted dark grey.  It gets lost in the shuffle; it really does.

I am so over this beige BS.

As for CSP or Truist Plaza, I think they need to recolor the east side dark grey. It goes better with the metal and blue glass than beige.

Am I the only one here that's sick of beige?

Not at all. While the color beige does not bother me in general, It certainly does when thinking of a cityscape. Especially a cityscape which gets as much sunshine as we do.

Edited by IAmFloridaBorn
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Beige is still better than white. 

White is the worst (non) color there is for urban cityscapes.

Just looks washed out and bleak. 

Lifeless.

Hence the reason why I hate white buildings. 

(Okay, I don't hate the actual buildings themselves, I just hate that they are painted white.) 

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6 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Beige is still better than white. 

White is the worst (non) color there is for urban cityscapes.

Just looks washed out and bleak. 

Lifeless.

Hence the reason why I hate white buildings. 

(Okay, I don't hate the actual buildings themselves, I just hate that they are painted white.) 

He’s held off moving to 530 East Central this long…

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19 hours ago, jrs2 said:

However I will say, that the new garage at the new Orthopedic Tower at FH South is painted dark grey and I absolutely adore it.  If I was Mayor, I would mandate all similarly sized garages to be painted dark grey.  It gets lost in the shuffle; it really does.

I am so over this beige BS.

As for CSP or Truist Plaza, I think they need to recolor the east side dark grey. It goes better with the metal and blue glass than beige.

Am I the only one here that's sick of beige?

Beige might be one of the worst colors ever used for buildings. 

That grey on the garage really looks great. 

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On 5/8/2022 at 3:47 PM, JFW657 said:

Beige is still better than white. 

White is the worst (non) color there is for urban cityscapes.

Just looks washed out and bleak. 

Lifeless.

Hence the reason why I hate white buildings. 

(Okay, I don't hate the actual buildings themselves, I just hate that they are painted white.) 

yes, on that sliding scale I agree.

I don't mind white buildings, that is, if the "white" is actually white marble or granite ala Aon or WTP in Chicago or the Grace Bldg in NYC near Bryant Park.  If it's white paint, no way.

But I gravitate to black as it is; Daley Ctr, Equitable, Sears, JHC, the big black bldgs in LA and NYC, all the black bldgs in Chicago, etc.  it's like to me that is the standard of what an office bldg is supposed to look like in a big city, and everything else that's different is done merely for the sake of contrast.

So when I see a garage that's beige again and again I'm like, ok, it's better than salmon; But I feel like Advent spoiled us with that dark grey garage.

I can deal with the precast, b/c even though its artificial, it is a building material; it's almost like the sandstone or limestone they faced buildings with back in the day...

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27 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

yes, on that sliding scale I agree.

I don't mind white buildings, that is, if the "white" is actually white marble or granite ala Aon or WTP in Chicago or the Grace Bldg in NYC near Bryant Park.  If it's white paint, no way.

But I gravitate to black as it is; Daley Ctr, Equitable, Sears, JHC, the big black bldgs in LA and NYC, all the black bldgs in Chicago, etc.  it's like to me that is the standard of what an office bldg is supposed to look like in a big city, and everything else that's different is done merely for the sake of contrast.

So when I see a garage that's beige again and again I'm like, ok, it's better than salmon; But I feel like Advent spoiled us with that dark grey garage.

I can deal with the precast, b/c even though its artificial, it is a building material; it's almost like the sandstone or limestone they faced buildings with back in the day...

So much for sense of place. Hulking black towers no more belong in Florida than a building with a palm tree in the middle belongs in Chicago. 

Architects have done charrettes  discussing the “Orlando palette” numerous time over the years. We should strive for buildings that neither look like they belong at the beach nor like a noir Batman fantasy in Gotham.

For heaven’s sake, let Orlando look like Orlando, and if we ever invest in building successful local firms like First National Bank at Orlando, Hughes Supply and the Orlando Sentinel again instead of throwing taxpayer money at firms like Sanford-Burnham that can’t wait to take the money and run, then we might stop trying to imitate everyone else and become us.
 

Edited by spenser1058
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