The Edge | 32-Story Mixed Use + SunRail Station [Proposed/Demo Underway]

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I thought it was a great venue; been there a handful of times over the years.

If Lincoln could've built CSP 2 across the tracks from CSP1 and partly on top of the empty lot and partly on top of the parking deck there, I would have opted for that instead...but...it is what it is...

I would hang Orlando an effigy but I've seen stuff torn down in Chicago by comparison that boggles the mind; there, Chicago can be seen as a "wasteland of old buildings;" the problem here is that there aren't that many of them...which places more value on each one...this one wasn't that old, but, the City tore down the Cylinder Building at Orange & Anderson a few years ago and that was built in the'70's (I think; I can't remember but @JFW657knows b/c of that big data dump on that and The ATL and Sharky's Machine a couple of years back).

The bottom two brise soleil floors were built in the early-mid  60's.

The 6 or so glass enclosed floors above it, were late 60's or early 70's. 

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The bottom two brise soleil floors were built in the early-mid  60's.

The 6 or so glass enclosed floors above it, were late 60's or early 70's. 

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil could have stayed right where it was as a part of a larger park at DPAC? 

[JFW657]

16 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil could have stayed right where it was as a part of a larger park at DPAC? 

Agreed.

Maybe in some alternate configuration or replaced in the exact same spot in the exact same circular shape enclosing a garden area which people could enter and relax on benches.

Maybe a fountain in the center. 

Oh well....  

[orlandouprise]

It can always be put back right? Are any parts missing? If so, build a little smaller.

[JFW657]

19 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

It can always be put back right? Are any parts missing? If so, build a little smaller.

Might be pieces of it in some other spots, too.

[codypet]

Years ago, I had posted photos of them laying out in a boneyard over by MCO, but it looks like they've since cleaned up the boneyard, and they're not there anymore.  My understanding was many of them were damage so bad during demo and transport, most were unusable.  That said I'm sure they just wanted to wait the outrage out anyway and now that there's a monument to them at the History Center, its mostly forgotten.   

Similarly,  pallets of the bright colored breeze blocks from the courthouse annex showed up in upstate NY on an auction site a few years back, and I never heard what happened to them.  Some of them make up the signage for the History Center.  I did love the description they had on the auction.  "They were taken from some courthouse in Florida that was demo'd in the 90's."

Edited March 28, 2023 by codypet

[JFW657]

39 minutes ago, codypet said:

Years ago, I had posted photos of them laying out in a boneyard over by MCO, but it looks like they've since cleaned up the boneyard, and they're not there anymore.  My understanding was many of them were damage so bad during demo and transport, most were unusable.  That said I'm sure they just wanted to wait the outrage out anyway and now that there's a monument to them at the History Center, its mostly forgotten.   

Similarly,  pallets of the bright colored breeze blocks from the courthouse annex showed up in upstate NY on an auction site a few years back, and I never heard what happened to them.  Some of them make up the signage for the History Center.  I did love the description they had on the auction.  "They were taken from some courthouse in Florida that was demo'd in the 90's."

One of them is out in my garage.....   

[jgardnerucf]

18 hours ago, jrs2 said:

RIP Ballroom

Y'all really liked that fluffy moldy carpet wedding venue didn't y'all. Sheesh. 

[JFW657]

3 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Y'all really liked that fluffy moldy carpet wedding venue didn't y'all. Sheesh. 

I never cared for it.

Never liked the architecture or the plain white exterior finish.

But then I'm somewhat known in these h'yere parts for my disdain of plain white buildings.

The only reason I had some misgivings when I first heard they were planning to demo it, was because like the old arena, it was still relatively new.

Seemed like a waste.  

[jrs2]

58 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Y'all really liked that fluffy moldy carpet wedding venue didn't y'all. Sheesh. 

...yeah...  I mean...sans the mold and stuff...ya know?

Edited March 28, 2023 by jrs2

[codypet]

3 hours ago, JFW657 said:

One of them is out in my garage.....   

A block or a pallet!?!??!

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

A block or a pallet!?!??!

Just one block, unfortunately.

Though I wouldn't want a whole pallet, either.

Maybe four (blocks) would be nice.

Different colors. 

[HankStrong]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:00 PM, prahaboheme said:

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil could have stayed right where it was as a part of a larger park at DPAC? 

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil being gone is the single best thing to happen to Orlando in nearly 200 years?  

[codypet]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil being gone is the single best thing to happen to Orlando in nearly 200 years?  

Have we forgotten our richest export of the late 90's?  Boy bands.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

Have we forgotten our richest export of the late 90's?  Boy bands.

...don't forget rave binges...and people getting thrown through plate glass windows by Charles Barkley...

[JFW657]

6 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that the brise soleil being gone is the single best thing to happen to Orlando in nearly 200 years?  

Can we not all, at least in retrospect, agree that keeping the brise soleil on the DPAC site would've been worth every cent of the cost and every drop of effort, if for no other reason than just the sheer fun of watching it drive HankStrong stark raving mad???  

 

j/k      

[HankStrong]

It would have!

 

[Uncommon]

Cool story about saving and repurposing pieces of the Ballroom from GrowthSpotter:

The Church Street Ballroom is coming down, but pieces of it will be saved and recycled

The 32-story office and residential tower is a redevelopment of the former Ballroom at Church Street built in 1994 and which has stood vacant for years.
The demolition will not involve massive debris destined for a landfill. It’s a project that takes recycling to a higher level with most of the elements removed being donated for reuse, according to LPC’s Florida Regional Director Shayna Hansen, who told GrowthSpotter the architectural salvage efforts were a labor of love. She worked with local nonprofits, galleries, theaters, churches, and city officials to go through the massive building and tag everything that could be saved and reused.

“There are things in the ballroom that we did not want to see go away,” Hansen said. “We wanted those to be part of the fabric of Orlando because Church Street Station was such an integral part of Orlando’s fabric for so long.”

Ryan Young, who specializes in adaptive reuse, donated his time to CityArts to design a new courtyard pocket park next to their gallery at 39 S. Magnolia Ave. He said the conversations and design plan started four years ago. They immediately zeroed in on the iron ceiling trusses in the glass atrium.

Lincoln Property Services donated the iron arches from the ballroom atrium and the brick pavers to be reused in a pocket park by CityArts in downtown Orlando. 

“A couple of the big pieces were the large steel arches that supported the atrium area to the ballroom was the main feature that we decided to use for the for the courtyard design, because we could create an outdoor volume of space with those. We could reuse those pieces, and it really became integral to the design of the courtyard,” Young said. “So that actually that took us the longest during demo because we didn’t realize how heavy they were and how long it was going to take to cut them down.”

The City of Orlando donated the labor to salvage bricks from the circular driveway that will be used as flooring in the pocket parks. “So it was a cool project to be able to use some of Orlando’s history in the next in the next phase of our history downtown, and it’ll be nice to be able to have some of those pieces outside in the courtyard,” Young said.

An additional set of bricks was donated to the Downtown Orlando Partnership, Hansen said. 

“And you’re gonna see those featured in different awards, programs and events that they have. We donated quite a few things to the Downtown Orlando Partnership.”

Hansen said LPC donated all of its event tables at about 600 chairs to local churches and children’s theaters. Every flower finial from every staircase was unscrewed and packaged for later use.
The chandeliers, artwork and ceiling tiles from ballroom will be reused on the second-floor of the old Orchid Garden building, which is being repurposed as an event venue called The Loft at Church Street.

“All the chandeliers, all of the curio cabinets lining the walls, those are all have been repurposed,” Hansen said. “Those are going to be seen throughout the new space. And then all of that stained glass on the wall and on the ceiling there. That was all cut out and crated and it is all saved and stacked in our Truist Plaza building right now. So that alone was such a lengthy process because there was stained glass everywhere in that building.”

The first floor of the building will reopen next year as the Bumby Arcade Food Hall.

“Everyone thinks that Orchid Garden is coming down and it’s not,” Hansen said. “The Orchid Garden is actually staying as is. We are not touching any of the beautiful steel work that’s done. All that wrought iron, all those chandeliers everything will remain in the food hall on the ground floor of the Orchid Garden. We’ll have new vendors that will move in there but we are maintaining and keeping every single thing that we can from that Orchid Garden, so that won’t be touched.”

The 32-story tower will rise on the site of the old ballroom. The "Bumby Block" buildings will be renovated to create a new food hall and event space. 

Hansen said the demo team took care to protect the historic Bumby Hardware building, which was next to the ballroom. 

“So the ballroom has been separated. Once we can make sure that the demo is completed then we’ll start on the construction of the food hall. … The Bumby Hardware, all of that stays. It’ll just get a facelift on the inside. The Cheyenne Saloon is staying as well.”

Once the site is prepped, Lincoln will be able to start construction on the new tower. It’s the second phase of the Church Street redevelopment that Lincoln started with its award-winning Truist Plaza 

The Edge tower is bigger and taller. Designed by Baker Barrios, it will have 234 luxury apartments, 200,000 square feet of office space and a 10-story parking garage and some ground-floor retail in the lobby.

Hansen said after COVID, the design team went back to the drawing board to create new amenities and ESG (Environmental, Social and Governance) efforts to bring people back to the office. She said Lincoln has already signed lease agreements with three full-floor office users.

Lincoln Property Company is razing the ballroom to make way for the Church Street tower 2, dubbed The Edge. (Baker Barrios)
“We’re seeing that workers want to be in the newest, greenest building, and to get that young group of workers and the millennials back into the office,” she said. 

“We also needed some draws to make coming back to the office fun again — to not work from home in your pajamas.”

The attached SunRail station and 20,000-square-foot food hall are both anchor amenities for the office workers and residents. 

“There’s going to be a full floor of a clubhouse that has an outdoor swimming pool, a dog park, things that are going to be one of make people come back,” she said. “We’ll have a private club area that is going to be on the level that separates the office from the apartments.”

Anyone who works in the tower will be eligible for discounted rent in the apartments, too.

[AndyPok1]

On 3/17/2023 at 11:47 AM, TheGolfFather said:

The magic are a definite failure on the court. Anyone I know that is NBA literate know them as a farm team with horrible management. The games I have been to have been full of tourists from S. America and the U.K. that show up to games while on their Disney vacay to see the stars on other teams.  Snubbing Shaq for that $121m was one of the worst mistakes in Orlando history which solidified them as a non serious "participation trophy" team.  But hey, 2030 is right around the corner aye?

To be clear, the Magic have had a lot of failures and fans are right to be pissed.  With that said, honestly they haven't done anything MASSIVELY bad in the past 15 years.  (The Oladipo/Ibaka trades and the weird Skiles coaching season notwithstanding)

• Dwight was unhappy, they traded him.  Looking back in hindsight, they WON that trade BY FAR
• This resulted in a team with a lot of 3rd-best players on it.  Look around the league.  Aaron Gordon and Tobias Harris are flourishing as third-options in DEN and PHL.  Vuc is still Vuc in CHI.
  • In NBA world this is purgatory.  You're destined to be one of the teams barely missing the playoffs, or making it as a 6-8 seed and getting stomped in the first round.
    • Which is fine for a year or two, but if you stay in that spot, you're screwed.  The Hawks have had the same issue a lot.
    • Because the NBA is a superstar league.  It's very hard to draft a superstar in the 11-19 draft range.
• They smartly tore down that team and got MASSIVE assets back.  Getting two first round picks for Vuc?  AMAZING.
• They now have a core of star potential players, the presumptive ROY, and 2 lottery picks (their own + Bulls from the Vuc trade), aka tied for the biggest likelihood of getting Wembanyama who is the closest thing to a sure thing since LeBron.

The Magic are one of the most exciting young teams in the league right now.  They have all the potential and all the assets to either homegrow a superstar or trade for an unhappy one.

On 3/20/2023 at 9:47 AM, jack said:

So its not the team you desire, but rather an owner that is investing in the surrounding communities.  

Yes the owner is awful.

[shardoon]

21 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

To be clear, the Magic have had a lot of failures and fans are right to be pissed.  With that said, honestly they haven't done anything MASSIVELY bad in the past 15 years.  (The Oladipo/Ibaka trades and the weird Skiles coaching season notwithstanding)

• Dwight was unhappy, they traded him.  Looking back in hindsight, they WON that trade BY FAR
• This resulted in a team with a lot of 3rd-best players on it.  Look around the league.  Aaron Gordon and Tobias Harris are flourishing as third-options in DEN and PHL.  Vuc is still Vuc in CHI.
  • In NBA world this is purgatory.  You're destined to be one of the teams barely missing the playoffs, or making it as a 6-8 seed and getting stomped in the first round.
    • Which is fine for a year or two, but if you stay in that spot, you're screwed.  The Hawks have had the same issue a lot.
    • Because the NBA is a superstar league.  It's very hard to draft a superstar in the 11-19 draft range.
• They smartly tore down that team and got MASSIVE assets back.  Getting two first round picks for Vuc?  AMAZING.
• They now have a core of star potential players, the presumptive ROY, and 2 lottery picks (their own + Bulls from the Vuc trade), aka tied for the biggest likelihood of getting Wembanyama who is the closest thing to a sure thing since LeBron.

The Magic are one of the most exciting young teams in the league right now.  They have all the potential and all the assets to either homegrow a superstar or trade for an unhappy one.

Yes the owner is awful.

About Wembanyama, how do you expect the magic to get the #1 pick? They have over 30 wins. Ain't happening. Whatever team gets the #1 pick will laugh at any trade for that pick. 

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

About Wembanyama, how do you expect the magic to get the #1 pick? They have over 30 wins. Ain't happening. Whatever team gets the #1 pick will laugh at any trade for that pick. 

The number of wins is irrelevant. They have a 14% chance of getting the number 1 pick, which is second-best odds. The 4 teams below them each have a 17% chance. Regardless, there are at least 4 franchise-changing talents in this draft, not to mention 5 or 6 elite-level talents. Having two top-10 picks in a loaded draft is incredible. Adding that to a team with a strong roster that has managed .500 basketball since a 5-20 start despite having the second-youngest team in the league and having been beset by injuries is almost unfair for the rest of the league. 
 

Naysayers can cry all they want but the Magic are finally doing things RIGHT.

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

To be clear, the Magic have had a lot of failures and fans are right to be pissed.  With that said, honestly they haven't done anything MASSIVELY bad in the past 15 years.  (The Oladipo/Ibaka trades and the weird Skiles coaching season notwithstanding)

• Dwight was unhappy, they traded him.  Looking back in hindsight, they WON that trade BY FAR
• This resulted in a team with a lot of 3rd-best players on it.  Look around the league.  Aaron Gordon and Tobias Harris are flourishing as third-options in DEN and PHL.  Vuc is still Vuc in CHI.
  • In NBA world this is purgatory.  You're destined to be one of the teams barely missing the playoffs, or making it as a 6-8 seed and getting stomped in the first round.
    • Which is fine for a year or two, but if you stay in that spot, you're screwed.  The Hawks have had the same issue a lot.
    • Because the NBA is a superstar league.  It's very hard to draft a superstar in the 11-19 draft range.
• They smartly tore down that team and got MASSIVE assets back.  Getting two first round picks for Vuc?  AMAZING.
• They now have a core of star potential players, the presumptive ROY, and 2 lottery picks (their own + Bulls from the Vuc trade), aka tied for the biggest likelihood of getting Wembanyama who is the closest thing to a sure thing since LeBron.

The Magic are one of the most exciting young teams in the league right now.  They have all the potential and all the assets to either homegrow a superstar or trade for an unhappy one.

Yes the owner is awful.

Try doing this for a minute:  judge them as if they were still in Amway Arena and Amway Center in all its glory didn’t exist.  Not looking too good there, huh.

You mentioned trades where former Magic players are flourishing elsewhere.  Now why is that a recurring theme with this franchise?

Dwight was unhappy.  Well, did they know that when he forced them to fire VanGundy, or were they simply clueless and fired the HC and then Dwight said f*** all you all I’m going to Houston anyway?  And yes, the HC does matter.

And what about the Finals fiasco when Nelson was hurt, and his two backups, Alston and the other guy, played his position and The Magic were taking it to The Lakers, but then an injured Nelson did so much crying he influenced them to put him back into the lineup when he was clearly playing at maybe 75% and was the weak link on the roster which resulted in losses and eventually losing to LA?

Its the local team so its good to be excited about them, and about “potential.”  But that’s The Magic’s selling point; that’s all they ever have, the promise of potential.  Do you know what that actually  is?  It’s gambling; it’s the lottery; it’s peddling hope, not results.

Superstars in the draft: The Magic came out of the gate with Shaq and Penny and couldn’t keep it together.  A few years later, they had McGrady until that fell apart.  They chose to trade for other teams scraps, like Grant Hill after he was injured and a shell of what he once was for Detroit, and managed to ride the pine for most of his tenure here, which was a contract stranglehold keeping them from getting someone else.  The also passed on Rodman.  Then they had Dwight and let that fall apart worse than anyone could have envisioned when they were in The Finals.  The Hawks had Dominique and Webb in the ‘80’s, but that was pretty much their glory years, and that was it.  The Magic had three eras of potential greatness with “superstars” and they pooped all three away.

Regarding “potential,” I’ll give you a college football analogy; you’re a TOSU fan so you probably understand this:  the Florida Gators keep talking about AR and all of his raw “potential” b/c he’s a freak athlete, unseen before in college football.  Oh, ok, that yielded UF a 6-7 record in 2022 with a sound offensive line and a great rushing attack to compliment said QB.  When Spurrier was HBC, he started a pipsqueek who’s only saving grace was that he could hit a WR, and they went 9-2, he was SEC offensive player of the year, the team ranked No.1 in the SEC, and No.13 nationally; and that formula got them to subsequent conference and national titles.  In 1995 when Nebraska prepared for its showdown with UF with Tommy Frazier at QB, a QB from Florida that Spurrier passed up on, the talk after the game was big mistake for passing up that option QB talent.  Why was it a mistake? For the prior fifteen years, Da U proved that you just needed to run a pro-style offense and forget about the inconsistent gimmicky option offenses and option QB’s who were good at running because they sucked at hitting WR’s.  Why? Because they couldn’t read defenses well enough or fast enough- and were in essence glorified RB’s.  The result: Miami stormed through the 1980’s and made the rest of college football look like amateurs.  Spurrier followed that formula, and if one of his QB’s wasn’t producing right then and there, he didn’t justify failure b/c of someone’s “potential,” and make excuses to the fans, he didn’t even risk that; he benched them. 

“Potential” is a reusable war cry that allows the user of it to never really have to produce results, and it dupes the fans into still being fans for a product that will always be substandard.  That, and the whole “they’re doing the right things” moniker.

[AndyPok1]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Try doing this for a minute:  judge them as if they were still in Amway Arena and Amway Center in all its glory didn’t exist.  Not looking too good there, huh.

You mentioned trades where former Magic players are flourishing elsewhere.  Now why is that a recurring theme with this franchise?

Again, I said past 15 years.  They absolutely had bad luck/bad moves in the 00s with Hill/McGrady/Francis.

Those former players are flourishing because they are in a spot where they can be the 3rd option and teams aren't scheming around stopping them.  Because that's all they are.  There's nothing wrong with being the 25th-50th best players in the league.  That's incredible.  But its not a recipe for a championship.

Magic were never beating the Lakers in that series.  I understand the hype after beating the Cavs, but they were a perfect matchup for the Cavs who were built to beat Boston.

From 1984-2014, only 8 teams won the NBA title,  If you go to current, only 12 have, and 4 of those (Mavs, Cavs, Raptors, Bucks) only have 1.  Potential is the name of the game in the NBA.  If you're not an unquestioned top 8 team in the league, then you should be knocking it down and rebuilding.  Magic are in a perfect spot for the rest of this decade.  

[shardoon]

16 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

Again, I said past 15 years.  They absolutely had bad luck/bad moves in the 00s with Hill/McGrady/Francis.

Those former players are flourishing because they are in a spot where they can be the 3rd option and teams aren't scheming around stopping them.  Because that's all they are.  There's nothing wrong with being the 25th-50th best players in the league.  That's incredible.  But its not a recipe for a championship.

Magic were never beating the Lakers in that series.  I understand the hype after beating the Cavs, but they were a perfect matchup for the Cavs who were built to beat Boston.

From 1984-2014, only 8 teams won the NBA title,  If you go to current, only 12 have, and 4 of those (Mavs, Cavs, Raptors, Bucks) only have 1.  Potential is the name of the game in the NBA.  If you're not an unquestioned top 8 team in the league, then you should be knocking it down and rebuilding.  Magic are in a perfect spot for the rest of this decade.  

Not with the way the executives run this team. They should have all been fired years ago.

[Uncommon]

3 hours ago, shardoon said:

Not with the way the executives run this team. They should have all been fired years ago.

Not to be rude, but do you have any idea what you're talking about? Which of these executives  are the ones who should be fired? It's easy to say "fire this person," but who exactly are you suggesting to fire and for what reason exactly?