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23-Story East West tower

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1 hour ago, Desert Power said:

I'm pretty surprised.  So many ~20 story buildings having momentum so soon is not what I expected this soon.  I wonder if this will ever happen along the BLE....

Eventually it'll happen along the BLE, but you've gotta have a critical mass of apartments first, then with that comes retail/entertainment/restaurant, then finally office towers (that's a very very general way of saying it). It won't be this development cycle for sure, or maybe even the one after that. Wouldn't totally shock me to see people start to gobble up big acreage along the BLE after the next recession though.

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28 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

Eventually it'll happen along the BLE, but you've gotta have a critical mass of apartments first, then with that comes retail/entertainment/restaurant, then finally office towers (that's a very very general way of saying it). It won't be this development cycle for sure, or maybe even the one after that. Wouldn't totally shock me to see people start to gobble up big acreage along the BLE after the next recession though.

I agree whole heartedly.  I would love to see High Rise Construction in the UCity as well but I think it’ll be a better chance of that in the closer in neighborhoods like Optimist Park/villa heights by time of the next economic expansion.

Edited by Hushpuppy321
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25 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ Southend has more underway or proposed than downtowns Winston and Greensboro together.   Wow.

Tupelo Honey says it has 10 years left on its Southend lease according to this article and will stay open

 https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/10/31/tupelo-honey-fully-committed-to-south-end-amid.html\

And I'm sure they have a LOI signed for one of the spots within the 11,000 sq feet of retail planned in this Stiles tower.

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5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ Southend has more underway or proposed than downtowns Winston and Greensboro together.   Wow.

I would say that as far as office development goes for recently completed, under construction and proposed in SouthEnd (including LoSo) come close to rivaling Raleigh right now.  Especially if this breaks ground (Phase 1) before the RNC in August.

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5 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:
6 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

Eventually it'll happen along the BLE, but you've gotta have a critical mass of apartments first, then with that comes retail/entertainment/restaurant, then finally office towers (that's a very very general way of saying it). It won't be this development cycle for sure, or maybe even the one after that. Wouldn't totally shock me to see people start to gobble up big acreage along the BLE after the next recession though.

I agree whole heartedly.  I would love to see High Rise Construction in the UCity as well but I think it’ll be a better chance of that in the closer in neighborhoods like Optimist Park/villa heights by time of the next economic expansion.

Optimist Park seems like the best option, but it is hard to imagine with the rail yard sitting on the otherside of Brevard.

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Optimist Park seems like the best option, but it is hard to imagine with the rail yard sitting on the otherside of Brevard.

That’ll be well in the future if ever. Connectivity is so poor, would be congestion suicide. Need to reconnect across the rail yard before it’s feasible.


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2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


That’ll be well in the future if ever. Connectivity is so poor, would be congestion suicide. Need to reconnect across the rail yard before it’s feasible.


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If ever, I agree.  Can't see it happening further north though.  A denser UCity would be nice.

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If ever, I agree.  Can't see it happening further north though.  A denser UCity would be nice.

Infrastructure wise, probably a better shot around North End, and north Tryon in the teens and twenties


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14 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


Infrastructure wise, probably a better shot around North End, and north Tryon in the teens and twenties


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Without a Red Line?

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Without a Red Line?

Makes more sense. Graham and Tryon have a more seamless transition into uptown, based on current land-use. Optimist park has a whole neighborhood of bungalows separating it from uptown.


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6 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


Makes more sense. Graham and Tryon have a more seamless transition into uptown, based on current land-use. Optimist park has a whole neighborhood of bungalows separating it from uptown.


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Connectivity along Tryon and Graham into Uptown isn't good either though.  Cars into office space there wouldn't be the worst, but I'm skeptical of the idea of residential there.

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Connectivity along Tryon and Graham into Uptown isn't good either though.  Cars into office space there wouldn't be the worst, but I'm skeptical of the idea of residential there.

There’s huge hurdles to reach the next frontier. I’d bet on west Morehead and Elizabeth before BLE. Southend is the truth, but SE ‘proper” it’s only 3-5 years from being completely built out.


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How urban do you think SE will get eventually? Will it ever look like a proper extension of Uptown? Will it ever blend seamlessly from Uptown to SE like other large cities?


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How urban do you think SE will get eventually? Will it ever look like a proper extension of Uptown? Will it ever blend seamlessly from Uptown to SE like other large cities?


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It’s properly hemmed in by Wilmore and Dilworth, and the grid isn’t very strong, so it’ll never be as broad. Once you get past Wilmore, I77 and Sedgefield are the boundary, so I could see South Tryon & South Blvd, taking on a Peachtree feel, but really I think uptown still has a ton of space to be redeveloped.

Seamless, without a removed, or capped highway, never.


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It’s properly hemmed in by Wilmore and Dilworth, and the grid isn’t very strong, so it’ll never be as broad. Once you get past Wilmore, I77 and Sedgefield are the boundary, so I could see South Tryon & South Blvd, taking on a Peachtree feel, but really I think uptown still has a ton of space to be redeveloped.

Seamless, without a removed, or capped highway, never.


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Besides 277, I could imagine the next mile or so eventually “growing up” into a midtown Peachtree kind of feel. I just wonder how much time that would take. I guess that’s one benefit of Levineland...developers are forced to pay higher prices to redevelop land uptown or move south and build at lower prices. I’d love to see a 400-600 footer in SE within the next decade. I’m not getting any younger haha.


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15 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


There’s huge hurdles to reach the next frontier. I’d bet on west Morehead and Elizabeth before BLE. Southend is the truth, but SE ‘proper” it’s only 3-5 years from being completely built out.


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Yeah, I don't think there is any area that can do what we have seen in SouthEnd without massive investment. Connectivity is too poor.  My point was half SE is amazing right now and half that the city is going to have to do something big to replicate it's success elsewhere.

Thanks for the discussion.

Edited by Desert Power

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Yeah, I don't think there is any area that can do what we have seen in SouthEnd without massive investment. Connectivity is too poor.  My point was half SE is amazing right now and half that the city is going to have to do something big to replicate it's success elsewhere.

Thanks for the discussion.

Of course, I love discussion.

 

And I agree. I think Elizabeth has good enough connectivity, access, grid, and infrastructure, but a bad development partner, Novant.

 

 

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if we are talking in the future I would think the site of Tryon Mall in the future with LYNX nearby be redeveloped into some mid rises etc.  It may sound far fetched now but 10 years ago NO one would have thought major corporations would build high rises in south end for their class AA office buildings.    There is large tracts of land available with fewer owners and it is a Federal Opportunity Zone. 

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Word is the architects are still doing feasibility of different concepts so still a ways off on getting some fancy renderings.

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I'm hoping the North Tryon area is where the next intensive mid-high rise development will occur. To make it really viable, there would need to be either an amazing pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks, and/or the red line built out of Uptown, but with the southbound Tryon diversion to Church for 5+ blocks, the city has created the pre-conditions for a zone of traffic circulation, instead of a pass through. More importantly, all of those blocks on the west side of Church are literally empty, so it's a blank slate. The issue will be whether things get sold in the short- and mid terms, to realize quicker revenue. 

Having Tryon as the only street artery leading up there is the other major drawback, in addition to the lack of immediate light rail connectivity, and even if Liddell is re-connected that leads traffic back towards Graham... But anyway, it's a rare opportunity to basically start from the ground up, in nearly a dozen city blocks only a mile from the city center.  

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I’ll play the dissenter, I can totally imagine some boutique offices along Brevard near 25th st. long before we see office on N Tryon.  This strip will be bookended by Chadbourn and the Duke office space at 16th and will have some nice greenway connections. It will be a lot like the office space we are seeing pop up along Sugar Creek greenway in midtown. After that stretch gets established the next wave of office should be the Sugar Creek end of NoDa. If commuter rail along the NCRR ever happens Sugar Creek should have a stop and will be a very attractive spot for office (but it will be a while)

 

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