Triangle Parks and Greenways

[InitialD]

[orulz]

Thanks for sharing your photos with us. All of them are excellent.

[NCMike1981]

I like this idea.

 

I'd also like to see a public observation tower built on top of Occoneechee Mountain. There's a great view up there but visitors can only (legally) get to the quarry view. The top of the hill is not part of the park. There are also some peaks in the Uwharries that I really wish had observation decks. Even Morrow Mountain itself doesn't have one, and it really should.

I agree with the Occoneechee statement. Back in the late '90s I actually climbed the old fire tower on the peak (the park was much less well known at the time, they didn't even have the parking lot yet, had to park on the road by the still active quarry and take a back trail to the mountain) and the view was fantastic. Even back then the tower was in bad shape, I imagine by now it must be on the verge of collapse. And no the tower wasn't officially open for people to climb, I was just a bored teenager living in Hillsborough so I decided to climb it anyway lol. The quarry view isn't bad, especially for being in the Triangle but they definately need to set up some sort of safe observation tower at the actual peak. I have pics somewhere, when I get some time will try and find and scan them...

[InitialD]

May have been posted on another thread, but Walnut Creek greenway extension to Neuse River Greenway officially opens this month:

http://www.raleighnc.gov/home/news/content/CorNews/Articles/WalnutCreekGreenwayTrailApril8.html

 

Also, Knightdale's Mingo Creek greenway from Mingo Creek park in Knightdale to the Neuse River greenway opens in May: Here's a video:

 

 

The Neuse River trail's riverbend section is to be completed by late Summer 2014, and the Crabtree Creek Greenway extension to the Neuse River Greenway is set to be completed by Fall.

 

Just think - by the end of the year it will be possible to go from Wake Forest to Clayton, or Knightdale to NC State almost entirely by greenway.

[Green_man]

Are they ever going to connect the sections of the Crabtree Creek Trail at Lassiter Mill?  What about a 1200 foot wooden boardwalk elevated above the creek along the South bank between the dam where the paved trail picks back up?

[Jones_]

I think technically it is connected by a 2 sidewalks and that little loop greenway between Lassiter Mill and Brunswick...?

[Green_man]

Yes, currently traveling west to get between actual greenway segments you have to do the following:  cross Lassiter Mill Rd, cut through paved trail to Brunswick St, then travel down Northhampton St, and Hertford St and either pickup the non-paved trail there or a bit further to cut through the woods to get to paved trail or travel down Alleghany until the paved entry to the trail near Buncombe St.

 

I've done it for years and even I have a hard time with the connectivity.  I can't imagine new users navigating this.

[orulz]

The connection near Hertford St is currently OK on foot but pretty annoying on bike. You have to either ride on the street or sidewalk along Lassiter Mill Road

 

The city does plan to do something to improve that connection at some point but I don't know what. Last year it was considered for inclusion in the transportation bond but the city determined that it should be included in a separate parks bond, which may come up for a vote this year.

 

The best way to do it IMO would invlolve crossing on a bridge over to the north bank where the pavement currently ends, crossing back to the south back just upstream of the dam, and then back to the north just before going underneath the Lassiter Mill Road bridge. I am not sure of the chances that the city could get an easement from those property owners. This would have to go through the backyards of about eight homes, each assessed at over 1.5 million. However, it's not completely hopeless, as there are already major sewer lines through there - so at least it wouldn't involve removing any trees. And of course three bridges zig-zagging over Crabtree Creek wouldn't be especially cheap, but that hasn't prevented the trail from zig-zagging before: it already crosses twice upstream between Lassiter Mill and Glenwood, and four times downstream before it reaches Wake Forest Road.

 

The street crossings at Lassiter Mill Road and Anderson Drive should probably be grade separated. If it can't be done now, do it whenever those bridges are replaced.

 

This, the strange routing along Walnut Creek west of S. Wilmington Street (why not just follow the creek?) and the missing connection along Crabtree Creek into Umstead, are possibly the two most annoying "defects" in the greenway system. With the recent announcement of a deal with the Quarry, there is at least some movement on fixing two of the three.

[ctl]

The N&O reported in February that the City will need $3.5M of new money to construct the link between the quarry and Umstead. At one time the money was earmarked for the link, but later it was diverted because the City and Hanson Aggregates seemed to be at an impasse.

[Spatula]

There aren't any great ways to fix the Lassiter Mill section of the greenway to make it more contiguous without ruining the scenery of the river with endless boardwalks. A tunnel could connect the trails but I'm thinking that's a bit beyond the budget for a mere greenway.

 

Guess they'll just have to make it very clear that the trail ducks around the school, and do something about the unbikable section above that (unless you're a maniac).

[orulz]

I agree that a massive boardwalk would be disruptive to the scenery but a few bridges certainly would not.

 

The only issue with building this (red and light green would be new construction) would be punching the greenway through the backyards of the $1.5m+ homes on the north side of the creek. The fact that the city already has a sewer easement might move it out of the realm of "impossible" and into the realm of "difficult."

[Spatula]

Your idea looks pretty good actually. I was worried that the bridges would clutter up the creek too much but that's minimally intrusive. As long as the eastern bridge near the mill was good-looking one, like the Skycrest bridge on the Neuse River section, it wouldn't detract from the visual effect of the mill.

[orulz]

The bridges would all be around 100 feet long. A run of the mill prefab Cor-Ten bridge is relatively cheap and the opposite of obtrusive. Ironically a suspension bridge might be more obtrusive for these lengths due to the height of the towers.

[Jones_]

So I guess using the south bank back yards has been out of the question for quite some time? Between said dirt path and current end of south bank mini trail at the dam....

[InitialD]

Why not just pave the dirt path, use part of Hertford, and connect it to Lassiter Falls Circle. Or, make the bridge across the creek, then connect to Lassiter Place? or just put better markings directing bikes to the street route around it. Three bridges for such a short section just doesn't seem cost effective vs building more miles of greenway elsewhere.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a connection between the new sections of Crabtree Creek and Walnut creek just inside I-400. It's only about 1.25 miles.

[orulz]

Why not just pave the dirt path, use part of Hertford, and connect it to Lassiter Falls Circle. Or, make the bridge across the creek, then connect to Lassiter Place? or just put better markings directing bikes to the street route around it. Three bridges for such a short section just doesn't seem cost effective vs building more miles of greenway elsewhere.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a connection between the new sections of Crabtree Creek and Walnut creek just inside I-400. It's only about 1.25 miles.

Better markings should be a given, and should have been done more than 10 years ago. I think the problem with paving the dirt path is that the greenway would also have to climb a big hill, since Hertford is on a bluff above the creek. All the grading would take out a whole bunch of trees. Connecting to Lassiter Place is not a bad idea though. This is one of the most scenic sections of Crabtree Creek so it would be nice to stay right next to the creek, and connect to the little park at Lassiter Falls Circle, but not essential if the costs are outrageous.

 

Three bridges seems like a lot, but considering that Crabtree Creek is basically the spine that ties many other greenways together, it may be worth it to have a high quality, contiguous corridor. If we're talking "signature bridges" then all bets are off, prefabricated bridges are very economical - and three of them at 100' each could probably be installed for less than the cost of even one of the bridges over the Neuse. Plus, the Crabtree Creek greenway has three bridges crossing back and forth over the creek like this between Lassiter Mill and Anderson Drive, so this sort of zig-zagging from one side to the other wherever land is available is not too unusual.

 

Regarding a connection just inside 440, I've noticed that  on a map too - and much of the 1.25 mile distance is through undeveloped, low-lying land along existing creeks and ponds. So, I think it should definitely be in the plan. I am not sure how this should be prioritized. Low hanging fruit, for sure, but marginal benefit from a network perspective is maybe on the low side given that the Neuse is less than 1.5 miles downstream.

 

Another connection that would add a lot of value would be to complete the connection between Lake Lynn and Crabtree Creek along Hare Snipe Creek. There is a pretty substantial culvert under Glenwood near the parking lot of the Golden Corral HQ building that might have enough clearance for a trail without any modifications.

[orulz]

Related subject. Does anybody know if the trail along Walnut Creek through Centennial Campus is complete yet?

[Jones_]

I checked before Christmas and it was not all the way through to Lake Johnson yet but the portion from near the Lake Raleigh boat launch to the first apartment connection (not sure what apartments they are) was done....about time for a recheck...edit: it appears it went as far as Broadwell Drive's cul-de-sac last time I saw it but had not punched on to Trailwood. 

[InitialD]

I checked out the House Creek Greenway between Crabtree Valley Mall and Glen Eagle. Close to Blue Ridge Rd. there is George F Marshall Park. It is a series of short hiking trails and benches along the greenway:

 

 

There are benches overlooking this spot:

 

 

The hiking trail through the woods, up a hill and down again via switchbacks:

 

 

Back to the main greenway:

 

 

Bridge:

 

 

Large housing development along the greenway:

 

 

[orulz]

Tomorrow, the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources System Plan comes before council. In it, there is a list of $106 million worth of capital improvement projects. For greenways, two significant improvements to the Crabtree Creek trail are listed:

Miscellaneous Greenway Improvements $7,200,000
Neighborhood and Community Connections $1,000,000
Trenton Road Greenway Trail $1,000,000
Lassiter Mill/ Allegheny Trail Improvements $2,000,000
Crabtree Creek Connection to Umstead State Park $4,400,000

 

With a $2 million budget for the Lassiter Mil/Allegheny Trail improvements, I have to imagine they will be making significant improvements to the connection near Lassiter Mill, and presume they will also be replacing the substandard bridge over Mine Creek.

 

What remains to be seen is whether they will hold a bond issue at all, and if so, which projects will be included. But at least it's definitely on the radar.

[Jones_]

Sorry...I can't seem to find the previous thread where this area was discussed but there was mention of a Pigeon House Branch greenway in the article so...Milner Inn has been bought by the City too.  As usual the conservative rants in the comments are prolific and WRAL seems to allow them...

[Jones_]

New rendering of two park concept along Capital Blvd. A greenway link to downtown from the north would be pretty awesome to me. While they're at it, I'd suggest green-laning West st from Peace/Pigeon House all the way through the Union Station West Street connector tunnel to South Street and on into Dix. Median separate that green lane even....

Interestingly this map shows Harrington squared up to Peace and the proposed roundabout at Brookside/WakeForest/Atlantic/Automotive with Automotive Way fully extended to Crabtree Blvd. Edit: plus the Fiarview interchange gone and the diamond for Wade/Capital. And the yellow line is the rail? Edit 2: And a strange Whitaker Mill punch through to Wicker/LaurelBrooke and the Six Forks punch through to Capital. 

I would suppose all of these are still part of the plan in time then...

[Green_man]

This is from the Capital Blvd corridor study from 2 or 3 years ago. Probably coming back up due to the foxy lady being demo'd today. I haven't heard of any serious thought of implementation by the city though.

[Green_man]

Ok, its from a presentation from Sept 29, 2011.  I have the pdf saved on my computer, I can make images, but I don't know how to post them.

 

The presentation also shows a close up of a roundabout at Wake Forest & West Street (near Revival warehouse), a potential West Street cross section along Capital Blvd, a massing of a mid rise redevelopment around a Whitaker Mill light rail station, a 3D rendering of the Wade diamond bridge with a West St bridge over Wade, a Devereaux Meadows park with a high-speed rail flyover, and a 3D rendering of the foxy lady park with urban development along Automobile Way/Capital Blvd.

[ctl]

BTW, the City intends to install an additional, large sewer line from Crabtree Valley Mall area along Crabtree Creek as far as US 1 and possibly farther east/south. Will surely mean temporary closure of major sections of those Greenway elements.