LOCAL & STATE GOVERNMENT INFLUENCE IN GROWTH & DEVELOPMENT

[MLBrumby]

IDK if anyone here really reads my posts here... I appreciate it if you do.  But if anyone(s) here want to hear the importance of civic leadership (public and private) I have made a hobby of comparing two Southern cities ... Memphis and Atlanta in illustrating the importance of good leadership. I was one of the first to recognize that the Memphis leadership for an expansion NFL team botched it out of the gate... back in 1994. I grew up in Atlanta, and know well the moves their leaders made to 'play the game'. Atlanta made it known they were OPEN for business. Yes, there was a lot of pushback among citizens there... but the way the leaders worked with the community is a lesson in how to do it. I think I may write a book someday about this very topic. 

[LA_TN]

I met Jim Cooper last year and I cannot begin to express how disappointed I was. That man is filled with nothing but hatred

I met John Cooper recently and, at least, he was nice. Looks like we are all learning about him very quickly

[MLBrumby]

Great post... I always try (sometimes against my inner urges) to give a benefit to a doubt. 

[smeagolsfree]

One thing to think about and that is when Cooper wants something from these companies in terms of help for Metro Shcools or cooperation on anything, he will be in for a rude awakening when they tell him to go fly a kite.

[downtownresident]

8 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

One thing to think about and that is when Cooper wants something from these companies in terms of help for Metro Shcools or cooperation on anything, he will be in for a rude awakening when they tell him to go fly a kite.

That’s the thing, if he was smart he could offer incentives in return for investments in new programs for Metro Schools(similar to Amazon investing in MNPS), partnerships on new infrastructure, and other things of those nature. 

[DDIG]

12 minutes ago, downtownresident said:

That’s the thing, if he was smart he could offer incentives in return for investments in new programs for Metro Schools(similar to Amazon investing in MNPS), partnerships on new infrastructure, and other things of those nature. 

He’s not a leader and has no vision. The only thing he knows how to do is to look retroactively and say well I would have gotten us a better deal. The truth now coming out is, actually you wouldn’t have gotten us a deal at all because no one can deal with you.

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2020/02/07/nashville-mayor-gambling-city-growth-development-business-leaders-fear/4673007002

“Cooper also shot down an agreement made by his predecessor to redevelop the PSC scrapyard on the east bank of the Cumberland River”

WHAT?!?!?

 

[downtownresident]

Just now, PaulChinetti said:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2020/02/07/nashville-mayor-gambling-city-growth-development-business-leaders-fear/4673007002

“Cooper also shot down an agreement made by his predecessor to redevelop the PSC scrapyard on the east bank of the Cumberland River”

WHAT?!?!?

 

We would’ve paid PSC $25 million to move the site, but they would’ve kept the land and gotten the ability to redevelop it. 

[PaulChinetti]

Seems like it would be a net positive in the end through taxes and other things. 

[MLBrumby]

Ah... deal-killing stubbornness. John Cooper and Alex S. Palmer... the sort of visionaries who'd keep Nashville in the 1950s. At least one of them gave y'all a lake. 

[DeemonBruhn]

We would’ve paid PSC $25 million to move the site, but they would’ve kept the land and gotten the ability to redevelop it. 

Nashville Yards stated in the Tennessean Article it will pay over $50 million in taxes a year once developed. PSC Metals could support a similar development. So the ROI in ten years for a $25 million investment would be a 25x.

Find me any investment where you can have a 25x in ten years.

[PruneTracy]

1 minute ago, DeemonBruhn said:

Nashville Yards stated in the Tennessean Article it will pay over $50 million in taxes a year once developed. PSC Metals could support a similar development. So the ROI in ten years for a $25 million investment would be a 25x.

The PSC property would also need at least as much infrastructure improvement as Nashville Yards, not to mention environmental remediation. Metro shelled out $15.2 million for Nashville Yards, which was only 20% reimbursement of the $79.5 million Southwest Value Partners is paying for their site. It's possible Carl Icahn would try to stick Metro with a higher percentage of the work, since he is less eager to redevelop than Southwest.

Speaking of, it's important to note that having rights to redevelop a property is not the same as redeveloping that property. If the site held that much development potential it wouldn't need at least a $25 million subsidy to stop being a scrap metal yard. It's entirely possible that Icahn would move PSC, then sit on the lot for an undetermined length of time. He is in the holding business, not the development business.

[Jamie Hall]

On 2/7/2020 at 4:33 PM, MLBrumby said:

I grew up in Atlanta, and know well the moves their leaders made to 'play the game'. Atlanta made it known they were OPEN for business. Yes, there was a lot of pushback among citizens there... but the way the leaders worked with the community is a lesson in how to do it

Unfortunately, that's a key complaint among a lot of Nashvillians: "We don't Nashville to be the next Atlanta." They don't want Nashville to be open for business because it pushes the city further away from what they remember as its "heyday" decades ago. To them, Nashville is already a failed Atlanta-wannabe that's overrun with crime, traffic, drunks, high taxes, and government giveaways. I encounter this attitude almost daily, either on social media or in person.

[smeagolsfree]

As far as Oracle goes, it might not be all Cooper that runs them off. It may well be the governor and the state legislature when the passed the adaption bill they passed. They are already getting push back from companies like Postmates who may cancel a planned expansion in Nashville.

[titanhog]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

As far as Oracle goes, it might not be all Cooper that runs them off. It may well be the governor and the state legislature when the passed the adaption bill they passed. They are already getting push back from companies like Postmates who may cancel a planned expansion in Nashville.

Yeah...even as a conservative, I don't understand that stupid adoption thing.  That's so punitive.  

[DDIG]

11 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Yeah...even as a conservative, I don't understand that stupid adoption thing.  That's so punitive.  

Most legislation session, you know they aren't going to do much of anything good, you just hold your breath they don't do too much harm. 

[KJHburg]

This is all very interesting to me. I worked in economic development in NC many years ago and kinda know of how it works here.  Most of the bigger deals are from the top down and I mean come from the state recruitment and even if the city or region is contacted the state is brought in very early.  All state incentives are dependent on local incentives  being matched at a certain percentage or amount. And more are given in poorer counties (we have 3 tiers in NC)  Any large company like Oracle for example and I do think they are being pursued by NC too  would be handled initially  by the state and would bring in local officials both government and economic development officials  later.  Mayors and other locals are introduced etc but not involved in the bigger incentives.  Most of our incentives involved tax deductions paid by the state after job requirements are met.   Local incentives follow that as well.  One thing I don't understand is NC is very tight lipped about who they are working with and who mentioned Oracle was thinking of coming to Nashville first?  the company or someone in local government?    Then once a company is announced publicly  and the state considers the project closed they release the background story through a state Freedom of information act.  I can share story after story how some of these projects go down.    I guess the thing I don't understand in Nashville is why your mayor is so involved in economic development negotiations?    Was this the case with Amazon? 

here is handles things on a state level in conjunction with the Dept of Commerce

https://edpnc.com/          Locally in Charlotte we have a regional organization   https://charlotteregion.com/    Raleigh and Wake County has this http://raleigh-wake.org/

 

[MLBrumby]

I doubt TN is very different from NC... Nashville also has a regional organization.  This is about a mayor who seems to delight in upturning a lot of progress that was made over the past 15-20 years ... and even pending deals... and not for any good reason other than his own political gains. He will eventually be beaten back, and companies will continue to go there because it's a great place to live and inexpensive for executives, and easy to get to/from. Williamson County is where all executives want to live. Mayors Bredesen, Dean and (even) Purcell were smart enough to let the goose that lays the golden egg (downtown) exist without a lot of attacks.  Nashville has always moved ahead, sometimes despite itself.  It is one of the most unique Sunbelt cities, and part of that uniqueness comes from the characters who make it their home... they don't get all the transplants who come in droves down the eastern seaboard. But the 'secret' of Nashville is already out.  So if a company actually relocates to Nashville... or Williamson... or Rutherford, the spigot will NOT stop suddenly.  Many here remember when the suburban counties were eating Davidson County's lunch when it came to growth and new business, etc.  There may be a slight return to that for a period, but they'll always go back to the 'goose'.  People recognize those periods as when Davidson's leadership was stuck in the past. Cooper appears to be of that ilk. If he is, then he won't last long, especially if he's blamed for losing any big fish... even if they go to Williamson/Rutherford/Sumner/Wilson etc. Nashville doesn't have to worry about other 'peer' cities. It sells itself well enough to do that... and the regional counties will step up if they need to. Was Oracle a REAL possibility?  Who knows... all we hear were the rumors.  I'll say this... if they were mulling over moving to Nashville, and dragged their feet, then they screwed the pooch by taking so long. Because now they have Mayor Bushy Brow to deal with.  Cities go through highs and lows.... I think a lot of cities would love to have this 'low' for Nashville. I guarantee you he's getting his chain yanked pretty damn hard by the business community as we ponder this whole thing about soccer. 

[DeemonBruhn]

Some great posts here!

Oracle to Nashville was real. Can’t confirm if it is still is.

[downtownresident]

7 hours ago, Jamie Hall said:

Unfortunately, that's a key complaint among a lot of Nashvillians: "We don't Nashville to be the next Atlanta." They don't want Nashville to be open for business because it pushes the city further away from what they remember as its "heyday" decades ago. To them, Nashville is already a failed Atlanta-wannabe that's overrun with crime, traffic, drunks, high taxes, and government giveaways. I encounter this attitude almost daily, either on social media or in person.

This attitude is almost always espoused by people who then immediately turn around and get excited about Publix/CfA/etc building near their neighborhood. They don’t realize that growth is what has brought the “nicer” businesses into the core part of town. 

[DeemonBruhn]

The PSC property would also need at least as much infrastructure improvement as Nashville Yards, not to mention environmental remediation. Metro shelled out $15.2 million for Nashville Yards, which was only 20% reimbursement of the $79.5 million Southwest Value Partners is paying for their site. It's possible Carl Icahn would try to stick Metro with a higher percentage of the work, since he is less eager to redevelop than Southwest.
Speaking of, it's important to note that having rights to redevelop a property is not the same as redeveloping that property. If the site held that much development potential it wouldn't need at least a $25 million subsidy to stop being a scrap metal yard. It's entirely possible that Icahn would move PSC, then sit on the lot for an undetermined length of time. He is in the holding business, not the development business.

Incentives are many times done as tax abatement and could be made dependent on construction commencement, certificate of occupancy, or other similar factors.

[markhollin]

Business leaders warn that Mayor Cooper's hard line approach gambles with Nashville's growth.

“I think that the trust is being shaken at this point,” said a former city official. “Businesses need to trust local government is going to do what it said it was going to do. When you change a deal midstream, then who in their right mind would do large investments in this city?”

At lunch tables and behind closed office doors, discussions throughout Nashville focus on the mayor's lack of communication and honesty about finances and economic developments, one Nashville lobbyist said.

"A silent majority is pretty damn worried frankly. They’re just being Nashville polite right now," the lobbyist said. "The fact of the matter is that to the people on the outside looking in, Nashville has closed up shop." 

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2020/02/07/nashville-mayor-gambling-city-growth-development-business-leaders-fear/4673007002/

[JoeyX]

On 2/8/2020 at 9:00 AM, MLBrumby said:

Ah... deal-killing stubbornness. John Cooper and Alex S. Palmer... the sort of visionaries who'd keep Nashville in the 1950s. At least one of them gave y'all a lake. 

 

I don't know about this where Alex Palmer is concerned. He had the only skyscraper in midtown for 30 years. He also tried to build another two scarper complex in midtown.

Edited February 11, 2020 by JoeyX

[UTgrad09]

1 hour ago, JoeyX said:

 

I don't know about this where Alex Palmer is concerned. He had the only skyscraper in midtown for 30 years. He also tried to build another two scarper complex in midtown.

Palmer definitely had a vision. I think the post you quoted was more about his stubbornness getting in the way. It appears he didn't partner well with people to carry out his vision.

[tragenvol]

11 hours ago, markhollin said:

Business leaders warn that Mayor Cooper's hard line approach gambles with Nashville's growth.

“I think that the trust is being shaken at this point,” said a former city official. “Businesses need to trust local government is going to do what it said it was going to do. When you change a deal midstream, then who in their right mind would do large investments in this city?”

At lunch tables and behind closed office doors, discussions throughout Nashville focus on the mayor's lack of communication and honesty about finances and economic developments, one Nashville lobbyist said.

"A silent majority is pretty damn worried frankly. They’re just being Nashville polite right now," the lobbyist said. "The fact of the matter is that to the people on the outside looking in, Nashville has closed up shop." 

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2020/02/07/nashville-mayor-gambling-city-growth-development-business-leaders-fear/4673007002/

Wow...losing political capital left and right.  State ECD has turned on him (not withstanding metro lawsuit against the state), private business is turning on him...growing number of council members (including those that disliked him when he was a council member)..wait until he has to raise property taxes, then it will be Copper v Er'body.  Surely he understands this...but then again...I do recall his actions as a council member.