Capital Plaza Three | 15-Story Office [Proposed]

[jgardnerucf]

See: Presidential Tower lot.

[jack]

On 2/12/2020 at 4:30 PM, Jvest55 said:

Never really hard of an office building, hotel and condo building all in one. Where does that exist? 

Maybe I missed it, but where does it say condos? 

[Jvest55]

6 hours ago, jack said:

Maybe I missed it, but where does it say condos? 

I didn't notice it either at first, but someone here posted the link to the  architect website and it states it there:

https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/capital-plaza-iii/

 

[smileguy]

44 minutes ago, Jvest55 said:

I didn't notice it either at first, but someone here posted the link to the  architect website and it states it there:

https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/capital-plaza-iii/

Sounds like they're fishing for tenants and will see what sticks!

[jack]

17 hours ago, Jvest55 said:

I didn't notice it either at first, but someone here posted the link to the  architect website and it states it there:

https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/capital-plaza-iii/

 

Got it. Interestingly, the condos are not on the plan. In the old approval, the condos were on Rosalind where the grass is. 

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, Jvest55 said:

I didn't notice it either at first, but someone here posted the link to the  architect website and it states it there:

https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/capital-plaza-iii/

 

So, I remember now.  The original question concerned the notion of a mixed use tower.  The original plan was three buildings on that tract.  This proposal is just for the office component.

[orange87]

Any chance this is still on?

[prahaboheme]

Apparently a redesign that includes a 15-story Modera residential building:

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-capital-plaza-modera-20220517-ygfesc2bsbfizogofenpa5dxdi-story.html#nt=pf-double chain~gs-top-stories~feed-driven flex feature~automated~gs-lead-story~YGFESC2BSBFIZOGOFENPA5DXDI~1~1~1~6~art yes

[JFW657]

I dunno, but does it look like the orientation of that 3D rendering doesn't seem to match the site plan? 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Why won't they just build a tall tower with mixed use on one lot ? Ugh but anyway development is a good thing. 

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Why won't they just build a tall tower with mixed use on one lot ? Ugh but anyway development is a good thing. 

I don’t mind that they split up the block — might up to scale things. My question is why that would put retail on the backend of the block not fronting Rosalind. 

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I don’t mind that they split up the block — might up to scale things. My question is why that would put retail on the backend of the block not fronting Rosalind. 

Right now, retail is thriving in the cluster around Lake, Central and Church, so it makes more sense imho than fronting it on Rosalind, which is a pedestrian dead zone until they do something about the raceway nature of the road,  not to mention all the blank walls along that stretch.

[prahaboheme]

1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

Right now, retail is thriving in the cluster around Lake, Central and Church, so it makes more sense imho than fronting it on Rosalind, which is a pedestrian dead zone until they do something about the raceway nature of the road,  not to mention all the blank walls along that stretch.

My point exactly — how does this do anything to help that?

[spenser1058]

Just now, prahaboheme said:

My point exactly — how does this do anything to help that?

If they just put retail spaces in there without fixing anything, they’ll just end up empty storefronts or, like the huge retail space at the VUE, end up as a law office with blinds covering all the windows.

Let’s build on the successful cluster that has arisen in South Eola rather than waiting for the city to do something from Rosalind over to the downtown core. This administration has done nothing for retail there since the theater opened. I’m interested why after almost two decades they’re going to change now?

We’ve got a green chute popping up east of Rosalind, let’s make sure it thrives rather than praying for a miracle (or a replacement for Thomas Chatmon) to the west.

[prahaboheme]

40 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

If they just put retail spaces in there without fixing anything, they’ll just end up empty storefronts or, like the huge retail space at the VUE, end up as a law office with blinds covering all the windows.

Let’s build on the successful cluster that has arisen in South Eola rather than waiting for the city to do something from Rosalind over to the downtown core. This administration has done nothing for retail there since the theater opened. I’m interested why after almost two decades they’re going to change now?

We’ve got a green chute popping up east of Rosalind, let’s make sure it thrives rather than praying for a miracle (or a replacement for Thomas Chatmon) to the west.

I don’t think it’s one or the other — Rosalind is a dead zone and I believe I was the first one on this forum to propose that it needed to be shifted from one way freeway to a two-way street (much to the dismay of certain people here).

Endorsing developers to continue the bad behavior will never change anything. 

[spenser1058]

26 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I don’t think it’s one or the other — Rosalind is a dead zone and I believe I was the first one on this forum to propose that it needed to be shifted from one way freeway to a two-way street (much to the dismay of certain people here).

Endorsing developers to continue the bad behavior will never change anything. 

I completely agree with you but this administration has shown no desire to challenge developers on much of anything. A leopard doesn’t change his spots, especially this late in the game.

Meanwhile, we have a success trying diligently to take off in South Eola and it seems to me we should do everything to encourage the bird in the hand instead of the one in the bush.

I should also note they’ve been talking about road diets for Rosalind and Rosalind for decades as well (ever notice the timeline for anything in this administration is always measured in decades -except handouts to the DeVos family, of course -?  job security, I suppose).

Especially given the retirement of Bobby Hattaway (a former legislator and a Republican at that), I’m not sure there’s anyone at city hall to move those projects forward with FDOT. @codypetand I will have to have a bet on what happens first - park expansion or road diets for FL 526 and FL 527.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by spenser1058

[codypet]

When they announced they were gonna move the drive thru, I knew this was coming.   I suspect the retail in the courtyard allows for restaurants or wine bars with outside dinning.  Think Stubborn Mule/Odom.  As long as they shoo away the homeless from the courtyard, it could work.  Remember the block immediately south is the County Admin building which sees a lot of transients.  I won't be surprised if the ARB mandates retail fronting Rosalind as well.

[bqknight]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

When they announced they were gonna move the drive thru, I knew this was coming.   I suspect the retail in the courtyard allows for restaurants or wine bars with outside dinning.  Think Stubborn Mule/Odom.  As long as they shoo away the homeless from the courtyard, it could work.  Remember the block immediately south is the County Admin building which sees a lot of transients.  I won't be surprised if the ARB mandates retail fronting Rosalind as well.

The homeless in the area could definitely be a problem. The County Admin building is the "it" place for them right now and I have frequently seen people go across to the existing surface lot and urinate behind the bushes. This is basically the location of the shooting that happened downtown a couple of days ago. The people there generally keep to themselves as compared to some of the others that wander downtown, but still, I can see it being a deterrent.

[jack]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

When they announced they were gonna move the drive thru, I knew this was coming.   I suspect the retail in the courtyard allows for restaurants or wine bars with outside dinning.  Think Stubborn Mule/Odom.  As long as they shoo away the homeless from the courtyard, it could work.  Remember the block immediately south is the County Admin building which sees a lot of transients.  I won't be surprised if the ARB mandates retail fronting Rosalind as well.

If it is not in the mandatory zone, the city has no way to mandate it. Besides, why mandate something that could end up being an empty storefront.

The better play would be to activate it with uses that the building needs so it is not a wall of emptiness. 

[spenser1058]

The residentially-challenged tend to gravitate to the spaces that have the least pedestrian traffic and they are harassed less. If the area becomes more active for retail and dining (let’s hope they hold down on bars), they’ll likely move on to another spot. The homeless downtown are actually the tip of the iceberg - there are far more in the woods around West Colonial and JYP and in East Orange. The difference is most folks never see the suburban encampments.

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

I don’t mind that they split up the block — might up to scale things. My question is why that would put retail on the backend of the block not fronting Rosalind. 

The Capital Plaza office towers and Embassy Suites' entrances are all fronting Pine St.  I gather that's their primary motivation. It could work...

I wouldn't bank on the office building getting built any time soon though...

[spenser1058]

Just now, jrs2 said:

The Capital Plaza office towers and Embassy Suites' entrances are all fronting Pine St.  I gather that's their primary motivation. It could work...

I wouldn't bank on the office building getting built any time soon though...

I’m not holding my breath, either, just as we likely move into a downturn. The good news is that all my credit cards are paid off and everytime the Fed raises rates, Discover Bank bumps up my interest rate on savings.

[jrs2]

9 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I’m not holding my breath, either, just as we likely move into a downturn. The good news is that all my credit cards are paid off and everytime the Fed raises rates, Discover Bank bumps up my interest rate on savings.

in the spirit of that article about parking studies and numbers of available spaces, is there an updated vacancy rate or occupancy rate on downtown apartments?  I reckon the numbers favor the redevelopment of this project to include residential, ya know?

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

in the spirit of that article about parking studies and numbers of available spaces, is there an updated vacancy rate or occupancy rate on downtown apartments?  I reckon the numbers favor the redevelopment of this project to include residential, ya know?

We’re in the midst of a big restructuring of office space around the country as employers try to figure out how work at home will affect space needs (just this week, Apple, which had decreed employees need to be in the office at least three days/week, received so much pushback they suspended the requirement for now).

The bulk of Orlando office space downtown over the years (other than government) went to banks, insurance companies and lawyers. The first two have steadily reduced the need for their back-office functions with technology and moved what remains to less-expensive space. There has also been a huge consolidation (think of all the bank companies that have disappeared). Law firms are also in an ongoing consolidation that require less overhead.

As for government, Orlando won’t need space for years as the agreement for City Commons with CNL was that, over time, the city would add headcount to those buildings.

Orange County, meanwhile, has largely moved the operations of its charter officers to the ‘burbs (elections, sheriff, tax collector, etc). The courthouse was built with empty floors to accommodate growth and, so far, unlike Seminole County, for example, the judges aren’t asking for more.

Our biggest industry, tourism, has no need to be downtown. Next up, medical,has its own campuses outside downtown.

Tech, for the most part, is likely to locate in the Research Park area and Martin decided to go all in on its legacy campus on Sand Lake Rd.

Bottom line: given current trends, residential seems the best option downtown. The trick is whether the city can make downtown interesting and convenient enough that residential towers broaden their demographic and not become little more than oversized dorms for twenty-somethings with constant churn.

Edited May 18, 2022 by spenser1058

[IAmFloridaBorn]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:25 PM, prahaboheme said:

Apparently a redesign that includes a 15-story Modera residential building:

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-news-capital-plaza-modera-20220517-ygfesc2bsbfizogofenpa5dxdi-story.html#nt=pf-double chain~gs-top-stories~feed-driven flex feature~automated~gs-lead-story~YGFESC2BSBFIZOGOFENPA5DXDI~1~1~1~6~art yes

Where did you get 15 stories from ?