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Capital Plaza Three | 15-Story Office [Proposed]


Jvest55

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On 5/18/2022 at 11:49 AM, spenser1058 said:

We’re in the midst of a big restructuring of office space around the country as employers try to figure out how work at home will affect space needs (just this week, Apple, which had decreed employees need to be in the office at least three days/week, received so much pushback they suspended the requirement for now).

The bulk of Orlando office space downtown over the years (other than government) went to banks, insurance companies and lawyers. The first two have steadily reduced the need for their back-office functions with technology and moved what remains to less-expensive space. There has also been a huge consolidation (think of all the bank companies that have disappeared). Law firms are also in an ongoing consolidation that require less overhead.

As for government, Orlando won’t need space for years as the agreement for City Commons with CNL was that, over time, the city would add headcount to those buildings.

Orange County, meanwhile, has largely moved the operations of its charter officers to the ‘burbs (elections, sheriff, tax collector, etc). The courthouse was built with empty floors to accommodate growth and, so far, unlike Seminole County, for example, the judges aren’t asking for more.

Our biggest industry, tourism, has no need to be downtown. Next up, medical,has its own campuses outside downtown.

Tech, for the most part, is likely to locate in the Research Park area and Martin decided to go all in on its legacy campus on Sand Lake Rd.

Bottom line: given current trends, residential seems the best option downtown. The trick is whether the city can make downtown interesting and convenient enough that residential towers broaden their demographic and not become little more than oversized dorms for twenty-somethings with constant churn.

That is a very good assessment. Tough headwinds at this time, but there are a few bright spots. Kimley-Horn, a very significant engineering firm, just added 50% to their office space in 200 and 220 S. Orange (old Sun building). And the downtown vacancy rate is a bit lower than the burbs. I definitely think you're right that residential is going to rule downtown- hopefully we can get some major condos being built- but Kimley-Horn is the type of company that does well during high construction times. If they are enlarging, it could be a good sign.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/18/orlando-downtown-office-growth-kimley-horn-florida.html

 

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  • 2 months later...
This is CP3.
 
Permit Number: MPL2022-10079
Project: Pine & Rosalind Mixed-Use Development
Address: 191 S ROSALIND AVE Orlando FL
Description: Master Plan for a new mixed-use development with office, retail, and 400 units
Application Status: Open
Edited by Jernigan
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8 minutes ago, Jernigan said:
This is CP3.
 
Permit Number: MPL2022-10079
Project: Pine & Rosalind Mixed-Use Development
Address: 191 S ROSALIND AVE Orlando FL
Description: Master Plan for a new mixed-use development with office, retail, and 400 units
Application Status: Open

So, is there any indication that this project is making some sort of progress, or was this just a thread bump?  ;)  

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37 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

So, is there any indication that this project is making some sort of progress, or was this just a thread bump?  ;)  

This is a new  permit application

As far as other signs, they are working to move the tenant bank ATM (PNC?) from its current location on this project site to a spot adjacent to one of the existing 2 towers between Central and Pine.

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37 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

This is a new  permit application

As far as other signs, they are working to move the tenant bank ATM (PNC?) from its current location on this project site to a spot adjacent to one of the existing 2 towers between Central and Pine.

good news.  on a related note, any word or movement on CNL?  They had plans for a Tower 3 a few years back.

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I don’t suppose we could just get them to put the Winn-Dixie back? Heck, we might even get @JFW657 behind that <g>.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312630936503


Or, as Jim Davis (aka Jock Ewing) said when he was riding for “The Beef People”, “When you start out with something better, you end up with something better.”

Edited by spenser1058
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/19/2022 at 3:11 PM, Jernigan said:
This is CP3.
 
Permit Number: MPL2022-10079
Project: Pine & Rosalind Mixed-Use Development
Address: 191 S ROSALIND AVE Orlando FL
Description: Master Plan for a new mixed-use development with office, retail, and 400 units
Application Status: Open

That's this right ? 

Screenshot_20220828-131230.png

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18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Is it just me or is that office space (not to mention the description) just sort of shouting “Hey! I’d be perfect expansion space for the county that’s next door..”

Or.....This would be perfect temporary office space for the replacement of the County building next door.

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10 minutes ago, codypet said:

Or.....This would be perfect temporary office space for the replacement of the County building next door.

You don’t love the Brick Bunker? What’s amazing is it was obsolete almost from the day it opened. If it is to be replaced, just don’t mess with the trees. Kudos to OC for the mini-forest they have going on between the building and the parking lots.

Of course, we were lucky it was built at all. It came about just after a knock-down drag out between Orlando and OC where the county threatened to move everything to 33rd Street similar to what Seminole County has done to Sanford.

Edited by spenser1058
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3 hours ago, codypet said:

I can't help but think that 3 story building is a waste of space.  I like the look of it, but why are you going through the effort of building that?

I think they should make the front building at least as tall as the pedestal of the building behind it.

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Given that it is retail and office space (in a downtown market that isn't supporting much), I don't mind the height of the Rosalind facing space assuming that it doesn't get value engineered.  That said, not taking advantage of a roof top space for a restaurant/lounge seems like a missed opportunity.

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39 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Given that it is retail and office space (in a downtown market that isn't supporting much), I don't mind the height of the Rosalind facing space assuming that it doesn't get value engineered.  That said, not taking advantage of a roof top space for a restaurant/lounge seems like a missed opportunity.

Agreed.

If what is shown in the rendering is actually built and doesn't end up looking like 500 N. Orange, IOW something out of Koger Executive Center next to Fashion Square, I'd be okay with it because it really looks good at street level. 

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5 hours ago, codypet said:

image.jpeg.6cd8cd18fa70ee379e2e98a6323a4016.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.2798aa51256686330dcf537cae1ed45f.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.0818247083daa2add8c687cae84eca94.jpegimage.thumb.jpeg.73369fd419611afa91eb28967dff1332.jpeg

From GrowthSpotter.  More renderings.

I can't help but think that 3 story building is a waste of space.  I like the look of it, but why are you going through the effort of building that?

So I guess Modera is in the build-sell business.  I agree with @orange87on the height of the three-story portion; wasted street-fronting opportunity there.  And I also agree with @prahabohemeabout the wasted opportunity of an elevated bar/restaurant in the tower.  U-Club started that trend IMO of screwing the pooch (in Modera's original downtown tower) and the trend continues with this one.

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29 minutes ago, codypet said:

Building gives me NCState Target Vibes.  Plop that 3 story building on top of this Target and I'd be happy.  

How about if they verrrrrry gently placed it on top of the Target instead?

I'm afraid a hard "plop" might cause extensive damage to both structures and then what would we have?  

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17 hours ago, JFW657 said:

How about if they verrrrrry gently placed it on top of the Target instead?

I'm afraid a hard "plop" might cause extensive damage to both structures and then what would we have?  

Drop is slowly and gently and if you start hearing groaning and popping, lift it back up quickly.

Sidenote, that Target used to be a very cool old divey bowling alley I loved to frequent.  Unfortunately Target threw stupid money at the Alley and they sold.  Now when you enter that Target they kept the building layout and the mural at the entrance of the alley still remains.

https://www.wral.com/new-target-forces-out-local-hillsborough-street-businesses/16240405/

The Alley moving from Raleigh's Hillsborough Street to Liberty Warehouse  Apartments in Durham - Triangle Business JournalAward Winning Target | Hillsborough Street Intern Blog

Not my picture, but it  gives an idea how worn those lanes were.

Edited by codypet
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2 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

If they are that bearish on office space downtown then just wait til you think you can fill another tower.

They could always design the foundation and support columns of the three story building, to accommodate building more floors on top of it if there is ever a demand for more office space. 

I think that would be better than just not building anything there at all, and leaving it looking like the "park" where the 7 Eleven used to be.  

Or worse yet, a surface parking lot. 

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They could pull an AdventHealth and build the whole building with a bunch of empty floors.  I'm not saying do it to the magnitude of Advent and leave 17th stories vacant, but they could build a 5 or 6 story and then just have the capacity.   Or like I said before, do mixed use on the first couple floors. 

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[Originally posted in the Downtown thread instead of here.]

The article notes that the Modera portion will have on the ground floor 6,369 sq ft of retail, a lobby, and live-work units, while the Commons portion will have offices and 6,000 sq ft of restaurant. The buildings will be separated by a pedestrian-oriented "via." Could be a cool little street if done right. 

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2 hours ago, codypet said:

They could pull an AdventHealth and build the whole building with a bunch of empty floors.  I'm not saying do it to the magnitude of Advent and leave 17th stories vacant, but they could build a 5 or 6 story and then just have the capacity.   Or like I said before, do mixed use on the first couple floors. 

I think the difference between this building and Advent Health is that AH knew they'd eventually need the space to expand into and having it sitting there waiting for them was a win-win.

This building would rely on the downtown office market to hopefully fill it up someday, but which they have no control over, making it a crapshoot.  

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It has a bit of an LA / Santa Monica vibe to me and if downtown can ever reach the level of vibrancy of Santa Monica, a small-rise city by design, I’d take a small infill development with quality over the Orlando supertalls that have made so many here greedy for all this height we are getting. 

Edited by prahaboheme
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