Livingston. . . A new "Main Street"?

[dcluley98]

This may seem kind of odd, but watching all of the development popping up on Livingston right now, is it out of the ordinary to say that Livingston is becoming a new Main Street for Downtown? 

Obviously Orange is THE main street, but  East West we have always had a lot of other candidates. Mainly :

• Church- Historically the main cross street and entertainment district, has the sports venues and core of the CBD and current tallest buildings and office buildings.
• Central-Another one of the core connectors still in the CBD with the US Courthouse, fronting Lake Eola to the east, the history center and park,   and the best    mix of office /restaurants/retail, also a "through street" that misses some of the lakes for connection east/west.
• Pine-an up and comer, splitting the difference between Central and Church, but the new pride of South Eola (that ain't Thornton,  Folks), goes through CBD, but cut off east and west and more concentrated in new developments in Eola South. 
• South- The entrance road to DT from the 408 and also somewhat from I-4 East.  City Hall, DPAC,  some hotels and corporate, but not much retail. 

And now Livingston. With the development going up (and planned for) Livingston, this could become one of the new main East/West streets.   County Courthouse, Lynx Central Station transportation hub. Entrance and one of the main streets to UCF/VD downtown campus. Primary route of Lynx and Lymmo bus system. Courthouse and the old BOA building are two of the top 5 height buildings downtown and some of the best aesthetically designed downtown  with a new tallest proposed in Zoi (should it happen). Radius, X-Orlando adding residents and density with walkable streets and ground floor retail. New hotel with extendended stay suites to replace the Travelodge.  Connects to the historic Eola Heights neighborhood to the east with dedicated bike lanes, and the eventual terminus is the Orlando Executive Airport  with FBO/office buildings and Macguire right next to another park. . . . 

I think this is becoming a "Main Street" IMO. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by dcluley98

[Jernigan]

I hope so but fear it could be Orlando’s main “alley” as the Livingston facing side of BOA and garage and Courthouse offer little to the pedestrian.  Orange also bisects it in a way that no roads between Anderson and Colonial break up Orange.

The remaining pieces need to be done right.  Otherwise it’s just a great multimodal corridor (Lymmo lanes and bike lanes) to zip between Radius and LCS.

[dcluley98]

Livingston side of BOA is where DoveCote and Foxtail are located.  Also, I didn't even mention Ace Cafe, which is a draw in itself with Car/Moto enthusiasts and also a venue for bands and other restaurants. 

The south side of the courthouse is actually very active with the bus-stop there and the corridor with the garden and stairs to the courthouse square. There are many pedestrians there, with quite a bit of traffic, although there is not retail activation. The courthouse itself creates a TON of pedestrian traffic and lunch demand (for better or worse). There is also one of the only remaining Pay-phones DT, as captured by a visitor recently, and a park area on either side around the courthouse and Skyhouse, with the Bus Stop as the western locus.  With Radius courtyard extending, it can create more foot traffic and ground floor restaurants/retail that will have the traffic to stay vibrant and alive. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

I think I put too many werdz. 

[JFW657]

I think for the foreseeable future Central will be the E/W "Main St" through downtown.

It's got everything including adjacency to Lake Eola, the library, the History Center, the main fire station and the longest continuous string of high rises of any other side street.

Suffice it to say, I'm a fan. 

[dcluley98]

I think I agree on Central.  Did not mention the Library and Fire Station, but those are obvious.  Also, the first DT grocery store that is also walkable in the Paramount Publix and a connection to Thornton Park. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by dcluley98

[Naqiy90]

I wish they would rezone Lake Eola Heights for more retail and apartments instead of offices so it became as vibrant as South Eola or Thorton,  it is the most underutilized side of Lake Eola by far.

[dcluley98]

I love Eola Heights as it is. 

I have lived there and hung out there for the past 5 years, and it is fantastic. 

The transition zones are needed and the Nimbys actually are productive to preserve some of the old homes and the brick streets and the fabric of living close to DT, but living in an actual neighborhood. 

I hope they never re-zone that area.   

[spenser1058]

Central has historically been the main E/W thoroughfare, for two reasons: first, it’s the dividing line between the north and south numbering systems and second (this no longer matters) because the two major downtown department stores were at Orange and Central.

Things do change, however. Both the county (once upon a time, ALL county business was done at the courthouse) and federal courthouses were on Central. In fact, the county courthouse was at Central and Main St. Today, it’s called Magnolia.

The Confederate statue was originally at Main and Central making that intersection a bit of a town square (something Florida doesn’t really have unlike other states) but cars kept hitting it so they moved it to Eola Park (and now on to Greenwood Cemetery).

Edited February 28, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Until the 1950’s, Orange Ave. was also less important because it didn’t connect to today’s SoDo. To get there, you had to go around Lake Lucerne and the main streets on that side were Kuhl and Delaney.

That changed with the completion of the J. Rolfe Davis Causeway across the lake and the extension of Orange Ave.

Edited February 28, 2020 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Until the 1950’s, Orange Ave. was also less important because it didn’t connect to today’s SoDo. To get there, you had to go around Lake Lucerne and the main streets on that side were Kuhl and Delaney.

That changed with the completion of the J. Rolfe Davis Causeway across the lake and the extension of Orange Ave.

Well, that explains why S Orange Ave was so rough looking prior to the SODO revitalization. The southern portion of Orange always seemed poorly planned to me, just a bad hodgepodge of streetwall.

[jack]

9 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I love Eola Heights as it is. 

I have lived there and hung out there for the past 5 years, and it is fantastic. 

The transition zones are needed and the Nimbys actually are productive to preserve some of the old homes and the brick streets and the fabric of living close to DT, but living in an actual neighborhood. 

I hope they never re-zone that area.   

I believe Robinson is the area that needs more vibrancy, not the internal neighborhood. There is nothing on that side of Lake Eola besides the restaurant by Eola Park Centre. 

[popsiclebrandon]

1 hour ago, jack said:

I believe Robinson is the area that needs more vibrancy, not the internal neighborhood. There is nothing on that side of Lake Eola besides the restaurant by Eola Park Centre. 

The rumored hotel there would be great. It is a sad strip.

 

But otherwise the neighborhood needs to stay the same so the batcrap crazy people on the neighborhood facebook page never leave.

[dcluley98]

You think the facebook page is funny, you should go here and check out the forums: http://www.neighborhoodlink.com/Lake_Eola_Heights_Historic

My best friend has made it a regular hobby just to troll them for amusement and sport. 

[popsiclebrandon]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

You think the facebook page is funny, you should go here and check out the forums: http://www.neighborhoodlink.com/Lake_Eola_Heights_Historic

My best friend has made it a regular hobby just to troll them for amusement and sport. 

I'm not seeing anything recent there. Am I in the right place when I hit discussions?

[dcluley98]

You're right,  I think I had the wrong site and it's Nextdoor forum.  Those people are hilarious.  

[Jernigan]

18 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Livingston side of BOA is where DoveCote and Foxtail are located. 

It’s a very nice door.   

we’ll have to agree to disagree.  It clearly has potential as UCF grows...but the Courthouse and BOA just make it feel like DC to me.    

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

You're right,  I think I had the wrong site and it's Nextdoor forum.  Those people are hilarious.  

They suspended my account because some crybaby reported that I wasn't using my real name, a requirement on Nextdoor.

They told me I could continue my account if I started using my real name.

I told them "Thanks, but no thanks".

I'm not letting a bunch of kooks know who I am!!!!!  

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

They suspended my account because some crybaby reported that I wasn't using my real name, a requirement on Nextdoor.

They told me I could continue my account if I started using my real name.

I told them "Thanks, but no thanks".

I'm not letting a bunch of kooks know who I am!!!!!  

We know who he is... he’s Super Arbor Man!

[JFW657]

I couldn't let them know that, though.... 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Livingston doesn't have enough retail to be a main street in my opinion but then again I'm not sure the exact definition of what makes a main street in the United States cities

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Livingston doesn't have enough retail to be a main street in my opinion but then again I'm not sure the exact definition of what makes a main street in the United States cities

This, kinda sums it up...

More or less.

[cwetteland]

I'm not ready to write of Livingston retail just yet.  Radius = 389 units, X-Orlando phase I = 262 units, 11 story Orange & Robinson = 368 units, Parcel U = 250 units min. Julian = 400 units.  That's 1,669 units or about 2,500 people ... plus 600 bed Union West, commuter students, courthouse and future EA Sports employees, and the peeps staying at Marriott and the new Hampton Inn.  

Then add x Orlando phase 2 = 266

I'm not worried about the retail ... It will come chasing those numbers.  Boom!

[Jernigan]

I can’t escape the feeling that UCF is going to lease a good chunk of BOA for classes and/or offices.   They just don’t seem I have a ton of room for expansion in CV.   Would be a good thing if it happened IMO

[dcluley98]

I disagree.  I think that they will try to stay west of I-4 and as clustered as possible with growth. 

I also disagree that there is a need for a ton of retail to be a main street. Other uses that drive traffic such as the courthouse and the transit center  provide activation that isn't commerce dependent. A good mixture is better, IMO, than just a bunch of apartments with GF retail that , as we have seen, is often vacant or revolving door of failed businesses/restaurants.  The courthouse drives foot traffic and has open spaces that are very well done. Hotels  and UCF will also drive foot traffic. IMO, UCF area is one of the few areas that could actually support something like an Urban Target  right now, and the added residences at X-Orlando and Radius would help with that.   

I completely agree that Central is the main E/W main street.  It has everything requisite for that distinction. But I also feel that Livingston will soon be getting to the point where it will have a lot of the similar features.