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Economic Conditions - Nashville, TN, U.S., Global


Mr_Bond

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2 minutes ago, titanhog said:

No matter how you slice it...he's a Democrat.  But of course...I see the liberals on here continually trying to blame conservatives for the mess Davidson County is in.  But again...you refuse to own it.  I see liberals continually blaming the state...or saying Cooper "leans to the right"...which is nothing more than hypocrisy.  Accept responsibility and stop trying to place blame elsewhere.   Own it.  Clean it up.  

The people who voted for Cooper should own Cooper, Titanhog.  You keep dodging that very obvious fact. 

Edited by ruraljuror
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Come on guys, this mess has been building for years. Can't just lay the blame on one person. Just to be clear, stop playing the blame game with other posters here.

Just getting tired of it all. I will be getting in touch with Neo to clarify what will and wiil not tolerated as far as political speech,  but quit slamming other posters! 

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27 minutes ago, titanhog said:

No matter how you slice it...he's a Democrat.  But of course...I see the liberals on here continually trying to blame conservatives for the mess Davidson County is in.  But again...you refuse to own it.  I see liberals continually blaming the state...or saying Cooper "leans to the right"...which is nothing more than hypocrisy.  Accept responsibility and stop trying to place blame elsewhere.   Own it.  Clean it up.  

To be clear, I should add that plenty of Democrats and Independents joined the Conservatives/Republicans of Nashville in electing Cooper.  They own Cooper just as much as the conservatives (and anyone else that voted for Cooper) do.  But it should also be noted that the Dems and Indies that voted for Cooper (besides those voting strictly for change or against Briley) were disproportionately right-leaning Dems and Indies.  How do I know this?  Because Cooper ran to the right of Briley in order to attract that segment of the voter population, and it was a major success for him. 

I'll also add that Dean had plenty of right-leaning tendencies, too and Bredesen was a long way toward the middle relative to a far left Hippie. Thus the spectrum, and neither end of the spectrum is all good or all bad.

Edited by ruraljuror
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45 minutes ago, ruraljuror said:

To be clear, I should add that plenty of Democrats and Independents joined the Conservatives/Republicans of Nashville in electing Cooper.  They own Cooper just as much as the conservatives (and anyone else that voted for Cooper) do.  But it should also be noted that the Dems and Indies that voted for Cooper (besides those voting strictly for change or against Briley) were disproportionately right-leaning Dems and Indies.  How do I know this?  Because Cooper ran to the right of Briley in order to attract that segment of the voter population, and it was a major success for him. 

I'll also add that Dean had plenty of right-leaning tendencies, too and Bredesen was a long way toward the middle relative to a far left Hippie. Thus the spectrum, and neither end of the spectrum is all good or all bad.

Why are you getting so worked up over this? We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. This forum is for sharing news and kicking around ideas, again in my opinion. I'm the first to say my opinions are far from the most educated on any issue. I learn that every day. 

Oh, and since I missed it this morning, Nashville is staying shut down until at least May 8, according to the mayor.

Edited by Nash_12South
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36 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

Why are you getting so worked up over this? We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. This forum is for sharing news and kicking around ideas, again in my opinion. I'm the first to say my opinions are far from the most educated on any issue. I learn that every day. 

Oh, and since I missed it this morning, Nashville is staying shut down until at least May 8, according to the mayor.

Was this response intended for me? I don't disagree with any of the points you're making, I was merely responding to Titanhog who tends to react negatively whenever anyone points out that Cooper was the more right-leaning mayoral candidate in the most recent election run-off.  This particular topic has been well-trod on this forum and I would love to leave it in the past. 

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1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

Why are you getting so worked up over this? We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. This forum is for sharing news and kicking around ideas, again in my opinion. I'm the first to say my opinions are far from the most educated on any issue. I learn that every day. 

Oh, and since I missed it this morning, Nashville is staying shut down until at least May 8, according to the mayor.

I'm not sure how one could read his posts here and think he was "worked up."  In my opinion, ruraljuror's posts are consistently some of the most level-headed and measured here.  Just my two cents.

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3 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

I feel like this debate has already been discussed on this board several times.  Right and Left are spectrums (or a continuum maybe) but there's a lot of gray area that can lead to these kinds of confusion. 

Cooper was certainly to the right of Briley (and most of the field for that matter before the run-off) which is why some claim he's relatively to the Right. Others claim he's relatively to the Left because he's a Democrat (in name at least) and won in a fairly progressive city. Both are fair (albeit half-baked) analyses.

Did you vote for Briley or Cooper (or none of the above), Titanhog?  I voted for Briley, but I wasn't thrilled with the choice. Most of those who lean progressive that I know did the same (anecdotally), while most of those I know that lean conservative voted for Cooper (while not being thrilled with their choice either).  This makes sense of course, because Cooper was the more conservative candidate while Briley was the more liberal candidate.  Seems pretty straightforward to me. 

 

I'm "progressive / left / liberal" and I voted for Cooper. I did it after reading a few endorsements that to me read like a wink and nod that Cooper was going to do exactly what he's done. He did everything he could to balance the budget, but gosh darn-it, it couldn't happen without raising taxes too. Now Covid obviously threw a wrench into things so we will never know if I and others were right, but I'm definitely happy with this tax increase.

Edited by Craiger
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5 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

I probably should have been more clear in my last post: To flatten the curve essentially 'means' to buy time.  Flattening the curve is just a statistical concept that makes no claims about virus eradication, for example.  In fact, if the x-axis plots time, then a flatter curve by implication is probably going to have wider upward and downward sloping tails and will therefore take longer than a sharp rise/decent. In the context of the pandemic, it just means taking measures to make the infection/death growth rates grow more slowly, essentially turning a steep mountain peak into a wider, rolling hill (or more likely, hills).

That said, I can understand your confusion given the fair amount of conflicting information that was being passed around in February and early March (which seems like a lifetime ago).  Hell, back then even the president was pushing the idea that cases 'would soon be zero' - which ultimately may not even be an incorrect statement depending on how one defines 'soon'...

All that to say, most of the credible information I was seeing in the lead up to the lock down gave no indication that the process of flattening the curve was going to be over very quickly.  There was a lot of talk about how it would take 2 weeks to see if our measures to flatten the curve were even working, but there was no indication that even a successful flattening of the curve would mean that we would then get to immediately return to some semblance of our normal lives.  In fact, most of what I was reading/hearing at the time led me to believe that our lockdown measures likely wouldn't be sufficient, and we could expect to see increasingly severe lockdown rules implemented about every two weeks for a while to come thereafter.  Obviously that hasn't happened, of course, (thankfully, I guess) and couldn't really happen in an environment where we lack adequate testing to truly know the degree to which we've effectively flattened the curve thus far.  Without those tests, we're all still just playing a guessing game, which ties one hand behind the back of those promoting quantitative assessments and solutions to the pandemic, which (not coincidentally) is an advantage to those who would like to push agendas and 'solutions' that conflict with the cold hard math.  That dynamic alone probably accounts for a significant amount of the public's misunderstanding of the situation.

All that to say, who was it that 'sold' you and the American people the idea that flattening the curve would be a quick process? I'm genuinely curious. In any case, whether it was politicians, particular media outlets, or friends/family/neighbors that planted that seed in your brain, I recommend finding other supplementary sources when seeking pandemic info going forward, because it seems like you're right that you  were sold a bad bill of goods. 

 

You certainly seem to have a great understanding of the "flattening the curve" concept. I will say, I watched as many local and national press conferences as possible - it was all focused on keeping it below the hospital capacity line and there were promises that the sooner we are comfortable in our ability to manage hospitalizations, the sooner we can ease back into normal. So there are some legit questions over that Nashville, for example, emphatically did not come close to stressing the hospital systems at any point. Most of our hospitals are empty.

Edited by DDIG
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58 minutes ago, DDIG said:

You certainly seem to have a great understanding of the "flattening the curve" concept. I will say, I watched as many local and national press conferences as possible - it was all focused on keeping it below the hospital capacity line and there were promises that the sooner we are comfortable in our ability to manage hospitalizations, the sooner we can ease back into normal. So there are some legit questions over that Nashville, for example, emphatically did not come close to stressing the hospital systems at any point. Most of our hospitals are empty.

While we definitely had a lower census the last couple of weeks, that is no longer the case at VUMC. Yesterday we were at 80% capacity and that was before elective procedures resume tomorrow. 

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1 minute ago, etimer13 said:

While we definitely had a lower census the last couple of weeks, that is no longer the case at VUMC. Yesterday we were at 80% capacity and that was before elective procedures resume tomorrow. 

Interesting. Thanks for update. COVID vs. non-COVID patients?

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1 hour ago, DDIG said:

You certainly seem to have a great understanding of the "flattening the curve" concept. I will say, I watched as many local and national press conferences as possible - it was all focused on keeping it below the hospital capacity line and there were promises that the sooner we are comfortable in our ability to manage hospitalizations, the sooner we can ease back into normal. So there are some legit questions over that Nashville, for example, emphatically did not come close to stressing the hospital systems at any point. Most of our hospitals are empty.

Yeah, this is definitely a fair point. Most of the curve flattening attention was rightly focused on keeping the curve below the hospital capacity line, since breaching that capacity threshold will not only greatly increase the fatality rate of Covid cases but it would also greatly increasing the number of Covid-related deaths, which would include stroke victims or people bleeding-out from gunshot wounds that couldn't get properly treated because the hospital staff/equipment was maxed out.  That's definitely the most important aspect of curve flattening. 

That said, what gets lost in translation sometimes I think is that flattening the curve doesn't necessarily reduce the number of Covid cases over all, it may just stretch the number of cases out over a longer period of time. It's also important to note that not all curves are equally flattened, and in fact, an especially flat curve could conceivable lead to an even larger number of total Covid cases/deaths over time than a flattened curve that keeps us just below the hospital capacity line. Of course, we also don't have complete control over how much flattening we can expect to see from any of the curve-flattening measures that we have implemented or may one day implement. Even among 'flattened' curves, the difference between one curve and another can be significant, but in all cases of flattened curves - the additional time that is 'bought' in order to improve treatments and prophylactic/vaccine development/production/distribution is the only real way to reduce total Covid cases. 

That's all a bit more nuanced than the hospital capacity point, which is another reason it tended to be front and center in many reports, but the key to reducing cases overall really lies in the time it provides to respond with meaningful medical technology.  That's my understanding at least, but I'm no epidemiologist so I'm sure there's more than a few angles/considerations that I'm missing here, as well.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Flaming/bashing/threatening one person or a group of people  No religious or political bashing

I think some level of political discourse is warranted in a few of the threads we have on here today.  A conservative reading of the above rule would say that over half the content in this thread and the soccer thread is breaking the rules.  We probably need more words around what constitutes "bashing" versus just discussing the topics of the day from one's own perspective.   A forum where everyone thinks the same or pretends to think the same would be a boring read indeed.

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I think this is more in line with personal bashing along with bashing any particular person candidate etc. Now you can certainly say why you dont agree with that particular POV without calling the person an Ass or worse. You can agree to disagree on the views of political parties because there is not right or wrong. It does not matter who is on the White House or who  the Mayor is and who did or did not vote for that person. Blanket statements or personal attacks should be avoided. Use the emoji's more often too. That helps dictate what you are trying to convey. Mea culpa at times as well as trying not to be the kettle calling the pot black! We all are at fault.

Sometimes we can make a little fun of light hearted but when it gets into serious name calling and radical forms of hatred such as all Christians are crazy or all Liberals or conservatives are nut jobs and hacks, or Islam is of the devil, or Mormonism is a cult, then we have to stop it and that person will get a warning or get banned. All of this crap has to stop on here and frankly I probably needed to put my foot down a long time ago. But one of the reason I didnt is because we had a very heavy handed moderator in the past that would ban people at the drop of a hat and I did not want to be like that and I am sue none of you wanted that either.

So, if a conversation gets out of hand, self moderate first and then don't get upset when a moderator lays the law down from now on.

 

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15 minutes ago, DDIG said:

Fascinating case study in a Tennessee prison.

2,450 tests
1,246 positives

98% asymptomatic.

A lot to take away from that.

That's insane, but such cases are not definitive. I believe Iceland's case study was at 49% asymptomatic. This virus has an insane incubation period. But other than that, it's insane how this virus can go undetected with no symptoms to many. Is this something normal on most viruses?

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3 minutes ago, OnePointEast said:

That's insane, but such cases are not definitive. I believe Iceland's case study was at 49% asymptomatic. This virus has an insane incubation period. But other than that, it's insane how this virus can go undetected with no symptoms to many. Is this something normal on most viruses?

Insane

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Merely an observation, best day this spring, and a Friday, while walking thru 12 South’s Sevier Park this evening, the least social distancing I’ve seen, if being attempted at all. Lots of groups of 6 or more, sharing dinner or just sitting and visiting. All ages, though mostly young. I can’t say everyone was breaking the rules but the most I’ve seen over 6 weeks of the same walk.

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42 minutes ago, downtownresident said:

I saw scooters while I was out today, which was actually kind of exciting. I’ve been seeing more people downtown, but it’s obviously much much less than it was a few months ago. 

Have they established a means of sanitation of scooters between riders? Seems like that would be a consideration before their widespread return.

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