Economic Conditions - Nashville, TN, U.S., Global

[grilled_cheese]

"It'll be over by Easter"

[erdichia]

2 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

"It'll be over by Easter"

Easter 2021?

[Nash_12South]

Nashville is reverting to a modified Phase 2. Bars closed again (min. 14 days). Restaurants back to 50%, Parks can stay open, Retail can stay at 75%, gyms at 50%. A real downside of this will be that hundreds of local hospitality workers, just getting back to work, will be unemployed again.

No fireworks on the 4th, which I always thought was an idiotic idea.

608 cases yesterday, just here. 140 at a Sheriff's facility.  

The numbers aren't good and as much as I want to reopen, until people understand that they really need to wear masks, we will be stuck here.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nash_12South

[BnaBreaker]

I know wearing mask is a bit of a nuisance, but I wish people would get it through their heads that the quicker we all take this seriously and take proper precautions the quicker this will all be over and we can all get back to normal.  

[donNdonelson2]

On July 1 there were a total of FIVE Covid deaths in Tennessee. 

[DDIG]

1 hour ago, BnaBreaker said:

I know wearing mask is a bit of a nuisance, but I wish people would get it through their heads that the quicker we all take this seriously and take proper precautions the quicker this will all be over and we can all get back to normal.  

TBH I see pretty good overall mask wearing. I went to the Green Hills Mall the other day (before the ordinance) and about 90% had masks and most stores had disposable masks for people to put on if they didn't have one.

51 minutes ago, donNdonelson2 said:

On July 1 there were a total of FIVE Covid deaths in Tennessee. 

For now it is currently running through a younger / less vulnerable population.

[DDIG]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

Nashville is reverting to a modified Phase 2. Bars closed again (min. 14 days). Restaurants back to 50%, Parks can stay open, Retail can stay at 75%, gyms at 50%. A real downside of this will be that hundreds of local hospitality workers, just getting back to work, will be unemployed again.

No fireworks on the 4th, which I always thought was an idiotic idea.

608 cases yesterday, just here. 140 at a Sheriff's facility.  

The numbers aren't good and as much as I want to reopen, until people understand that they really need to wear masks, we will be stuck here.  

Yet there is another protest planned for Saturday that the Mayor says will go on as planned. I get mask wearing has been good at these events, but masks are not invincible - there is no social distancing. It is disingenuous for them to say they don't think the virus is spreading there, they simply do not really know - while a positive case maybe didn't attend a dense protest it certainly could have from someone who did and spread it in the home, workplace, etc. and on top of that we certainly are only capturing a sample of all of our positives.

I'm all for the right to expression but it is getting slightly absurd to see continued very large dense gatherings and be told it is perfectly fine during this increasing health crisis while everything else is reverting backwards to shutdown.

Edited July 2, 2020 by DDIG

[UTgrad09]

Just screw it all. Drop all of the regulations and advice. People in this country are too defiant and too dumb to take precautions. Let's just go ahead and go all out and thin the herd as much as possible. Because that's the price you pay fer FREEDUM!

[Craiger]

1 hour ago, DDIG said:

Yet there is another protest planned for Saturday that the Mayor says will go on as planned. I get mask wearing has been good at these events, but masks are not invincible - there is no social distancing. It is disingenuous for them to say they don't think the virus is spreading there, they simply do not really know - while a positive case maybe didn't attend a dense protest it certainly could have from someone who did and spread it in the home, workplace, etc. and on top of that we certainly are only capturing a sample of all of our positives.

I'm all for the right to expression but it is getting slightly absurd to see continued very large dense gatherings and be told it is perfectly fine during this increasing health crisis while everything else is reverting backwards to shutdown.

I think they said today that 3 people that have tested positive participated in protests so far. They haven't linked spread back to them at all. Being outside is a huge limiter of transmission. This is why they are keeping dog parks / playgrounds / pools open in this new phase. They haven't tracked any large spread back to these activities either.  Combine that with a decent number of protesters wearing masks and it's a very low risk event. 

[DDIG]

7 minutes ago, Craiger said:

I think they said today that 3 people that have tested positive participated in protests so far. They haven't linked spread back to them at all. Being outside is a huge limiter of transmission. This is why they are keeping dog parks / playgrounds / pools open in this new phase. They haven't tracked any large spread back to these activities either.  Combine that with a decent number of protesters wearing masks and it's a very low risk event. 

I've always been a big proponent that outside is low transmission risk. I don't really buy though there are only three cases that came out of 10,000 people in very close proximity though, which coincidentally happened just before our rise. Like I said we are only capturing a snapshot of our cases and these groupings are younger people who might have mild symptoms or asymptomatic and not being aware they have it or are spreading it. Regardless, it is just an odd juxtaposition of being told no gatherings over 25 people on one hand and advocating for thousands of people to get together multiple times a week at this point as cases skyrocket - and again, I support their rights on every other level.

Edited July 2, 2020 by DDIG

[Nash_12South]

11 minutes ago, Craiger said:

I think they said today that 3 people that have tested positive participated in protests so far. They haven't linked spread back to them at all. Being outside is a huge limiter of transmission. This is why they are keeping dog parks / playgrounds / pools open in this new phase. They haven't tracked any large spread back to these activities either.  Combine that with a decent number of protesters wearing masks and it's a very low risk event. 

While this makes sense, the optics don’t help. Banning groups of over 25 people includes events like this - period.  When you start making exceptions left and right, the reasoning gets weakened. Even my most liberal leaning friends think making exceptions for the protests is ridiculous. 
It also gives ammunition to those suing the city. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nash_12South

[Craiger]

I found the tweet I referenced above. 

 

[ArchitectBarbie]

16 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

While this makes sense, the optics don’t help. Banning groups of over 25 people includes events like this - period.  When you start making exceptions left and right, the reasoning gets weakened. Even my most liberal leaning friends think making exceptions for the protests is ridiculous. 
It also gives ammunition to those suing the city. 

Good luck with that, constitutional rights and all. What is hurting our city, is that the vast majority of infections occur in so-called super-spreader events, almost all of which take place indoors.  Most protestors wear masks as opposed to those who were pictured at Lower Broadway bars who were packed in like sardines without a mask.  It's not a fair comparison.

Edited July 2, 2020 by ArchitectBarbie

[BnaBreaker]

32 minutes ago, Craiger said:

I think they said today that 3 people that have tested positive participated in protests so far. They haven't linked spread back to them at all. Being outside is a huge limiter of transmission. This is why they are keeping dog parks / playgrounds / pools open in this new phase. They haven't tracked any large spread back to these activities either.  Combine that with a decent number of protesters wearing masks and it's a very low risk event. 

Also, and I know this sounds weird, but the fact that everyone at the protest is facing the same direction probably helps quite a bit as well.

[DDIG]

11 minutes ago, ArchitectBarbie said:

Good luck with that, constitutional rights and all. What is hurting our city, is that the vast majority of infections occur in so-called super-spreader events, almost all of which take place indoors.  Most protestors wear masks as opposed to those who were pictured at Lower Broadway bars who were packed in like sardines without a mask.  It's not a fair comparison.

Here's the breakdown of sources in Davidson. "Community" is incredible vague / broad, but I assume that encapsulates anything that can be done in community including bars. Then I have no idea what they mean by other. 

Household: 25.5% Workplace: 21.9% Community: 20.2% Travel – US: 10.2% Essential workers: 8.7% Other: 7.9% Healthcare Contact: 3.4% Airport: 1.5% School 0.4% Correctional Facility: 0.2% Cruise Ship 0.2%

[Nash_12South]

15 minutes ago, ArchitectBarbie said:

Good luck with that, constitutional rights and all. What is hurting our city, is that the vast majority of infections occur in so-called super-spreader events, almost all of which take place indoors.  Most protestors wear masks as opposed to those who were pictured at Lower Broadway bars who were packed in like sardines without a mask.  It's not a fair comparison.

I just get back to - either groups over 25 can gather or not. I see that as almost separate from the bar debate.
They are carving out requirements that single out the bars, which I get. I also get the argument that when you have to debate if 500 in a bar with no masks  is worse than 2000 at a march, some with masks, you lose me. 

[ruraljuror]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

While this makes sense, the optics don’t help. Banning groups of over 25 people includes events like this - period.  When you start making exceptions left and right, the reasoning gets weakened. Even my most liberal leaning friends think making exceptions for the protests is ridiculous. 
It also gives ammunition to those suing the city. 

I understand your point, but I don't think the issue is as cut and dried as you make it out to be. A protest isn't so much a 'group' or 'event' as it is a collection of individuals who happen to be motivated by the same thing.  Even amongst the protesters, there are no leaders who have the authority to make everyone go home and/or march in the same direction and/or carry specific signs, etc.  You can't cut the power and make the crowd disperse when you're dealing with chanting and handheld megaphones.  Also, in outdoor public spaces generally, it's pretty difficult to enforce a 25 person max capacity.  Are the cops then going to be making sure that no single sidewalk or greenway path has more than 25 people on at at any given time? The city has admitted this is essentially impossible. 

Maybe even more importantly, however,  do you want to stop a protest against police brutality with an aggressive show of force by the police to clear out the protesters? That's most likely just going to lead to a larger protest the next weekend. On the other hand, if the cops want to write tickets to everyone who attends a protest in violation of the city ordinance, I'm okay with that - though I imagine that would lead to a class action suit against the city which could ultimately end up undermining the ordinance, and it's going to be difficult for the city to show that the protesters weren't specifically targeted for these tickets disproportionately compared to recreational sidewalk/greenway walkers. 

This is a bit of a Catch-22. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by ruraljuror

[markhollin]

M Street, home to popular concepts such as Saint Anejo and Kayne Prime, announced Thursday it would close its portfolio of restaurants through this weekend after employees tested positive for coronavirus.

The restaurant group wrote in a Facebook post: “In light of the spike in local cases of Covid-19, and recent positive tests of team members at Saint Anejo, Kayne Prime and Virago, we will voluntarily close our M Street restaurants through this weekend. We will reopen next week after all precautionary measures are taken, including deep sanitization of all facilities and additional staff testing.”

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/07/02/m-street-closes-temporarily-covid-19-concerns.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

[Nash_12South]

I’m guessing I’m not getting the root of my issue explained. I have no problem with the protests. It’s the city saying it’s ok, while basically excluding other groups over 25.
Cynically, I think if this was a law observing Arsonists of America rally, the 25 person rule just might be used. I understand all the reasons for how theses current  marches are acceptable, virus or no. 

[Craiger]

21 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

I’m guessing I’m not getting the root of my issue explained. I have no problem with the protests. It’s the city saying it’s ok, while basically excluding other groups over 25.
Cynically, I think if this was a law observing Arsonists of America rally, the 25 person rule just might be used. I understand all the reasons for how theses current  marches are acceptable, virus or no. 

From a public heath standpoint, having a peaceful outdoor protest is much preferred vs arresting hundreds or thousands and shoving them in a jail together. 

[Nash_12South]

56 minutes ago, Craiger said:

From a public heath standpoint, having a peaceful outdoor protest is much preferred vs arresting hundreds or thousands and shoving them in a jail together. 

Well, if you really care about your fellow citizens, perhaps avoiding any possibility of catching or spreading a highly contagious virus would be the more noble act. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nash_12South

[ruraljuror]

41 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

Well, if you really care about your fellow citizens, perhaps avoiding any possibility of catching or spreading a highly contagious virus would be the more noble act. 

Well, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt before, but now it kind of seems like maybe you do have a problem with the protests.  I don't recall you taking such a strong moral stance against the protestors who were mask-lessly complaining about their inability to get a haircut (or the requirement to wear a mask in the first place), but somehow protests about racial inequality seem to inspire a very different reaction from you.

On the other hand, I do very much recall you repeatedly cheerleading a premature opening over the last few months in the face of others' appeals to science, statistics, and the public good as reasons  to not rush the reopening.  Regardless, I'm glad you've apparently come around to having a better understanding of the potential severity of the pandemic, but maybe you shouldn't be so quick to plant your flag on the moral high ground in assuming that the protesters aren't in fact doing what they think is right to best care for their fellow citizens.

Speaking of haircuts and moralizing - this is you from just two short months ago making dinner party plans despite admittedly knowing better.  If you're going to be throwing stones around, maybe start with yourself and your friends first. Be the change you want to see in the world 12South.

On 4/27/2020 at 7:31 AM, Nash_12South said:

It would be interesting to see the extent of negative media on businesses that try to reopen early in Nashville. I think there is a quiet momentum (maybe not so quiet) building to get things moving again, or at least to test the waters. I'll pass on stories of two friends. A 55 year old female coworker, who has needed a pep talk before every trip to the grocery, but by Friday was heading to her salon for a cut and color. Yes, it was quietly operating underground. Another friend who was touting on Facebook last week the idiocy of reopening too soon and a fear of going out, early last week, but last night, invited us over for dinner this upcoming Friday night. I kept asking "are you really serious??" Yes, we will probably go. Given the conditions he was laying out, I'm not sure if we're actually not eating in the neighbor's yard.....

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by ruraljuror

[Nash_12South]

Didn’t realize I was throwing stones. Seriously, apologies  to anyone I have offended. I will admit that I struggle with the protests. I have police in my family. 
I have questioned my own convictions regarding the virus shutdowns. I do see I’m creating issues so I will retreat. 

[ruraljuror]

2 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

Didn’t realize I was throwing stones. Seriously, apologies  to anyone I have offended. I will admit that I struggle with the protests. I have police in my family. 
I have questioned my own convictions regarding the virus shutdowns. I do see I’m creating issues so I will retreat. 

You're not creating the issues here - the source of these problems (both virus and civil unrest) are way above all of our pay grades. And "throwing stones" may have been poor phrasing on my part. 

I simply wanted to point out the disconnect I saw - that your understandable desire to get life and the economy back to normal (which is a desire I think we all share) was enough motivation for you to flout the best-available medical advice in the midst of a pandemic (which we probably all also do), but you in turn weren't willing to extend much understanding to protesters who were flouting that same best-available medical advice for a very righteous cause. 

And to your point about having police in your family, it doesn't mean that you have to think that all cops are monsters or disparage your family members in order to look at the stats and recognize the righteousness of the BLM movement as an idea and concept (that all races should be treated equally in the eyes and by the hand of the law) apart from any flaws that may come about in the process of attempting to execute those righteous ideas. To be clear, some cops are certainly monsters - as are some teachers, and some professional athletes, and some retail clerks, and some bankers,  and some real estate developers, some butchers, some bakers, and some candlestick makers.  But we do need to hold cops to the highest standard not only because they are ones we entrust to make split decisions in sometimes dangerous and uncertain situations, but because we also give them lethal weapons to enforce those decisions in the blink of an eye.  That couldn't be easy. In fact,  because of that difficulty and the high standard to which cops must be held, I think we ought to be paying cops a lot more, and giving them a lot more training, but also holding them a lot more accountable for the decisions they make - though that's getting away from the point here.

I think we've all probably questioned our own convictions regarding the shutdowns too, but you don't need to retreat or to apologize to me at the very least. These are trying times and I suppose most everyone is just trying to do the best they can. 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by ruraljuror

[grilled_cheese]

13 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

On July 1 there were a total of FIVE Covid deaths in Tennessee. 

I was told that doctors aren't reliable anymore (ITT) so where are your deetz coming from?