Economic Conditions - Nashville, TN, U.S., Global

[markhollin]

I have started a "2020 Politics" thread over in the Coffee House, and am moving posts that have gotten off topic over there.  Enjoy your debates there.  Thanks.
 

[LA_TN]

1 hour ago, Craiger said:

The problem here is that the other mods in my experience shut down ALL political discussion in a thread if they feel it’s gotten out of hand. Instead, you just decide to let it keep going except sniping a couple from one side. To top it off you said in your explanation that you personally disagree with what RJ posted. You’ve decided that “both sides” are to blame. So how dare someone come on and point out otherwise. Have you been a moderator online before? It’s a real quick way to destroy a community they way you are wielding your new found power.

OK, well, I was trying to ignore, but

1) show me where I said that I "personally disagree with what RJ posted"

2) (from earlier post) please show me where I stated "you admit in your reply that you disagree with the politics of the one single post"

No sir, my point was to put a stop to the political debate that should be in the coffee house. And now you are on a rant because of it

Please focus on the topic of this thread and take the politics to the coffee house!

[Craiger]

8 minutes ago, LA_TN said:

OK, well, I was trying to ignore, but

1) show me where I said that I "personally disagree with what RJ posted"

2) (from earlier post) please show me where I stated "you admit in your reply that you disagree with the politics of the one single post"

No sir, my point was to put a stop to the political debate that should be in the coffee house. And now you are on a rant because of it

Please focus on the topic of this thread and take the politics to the coffee house!

“Personally, I maintain we would be where we are today, regardless of who was in leadership - local or national - because of, well, the people”

this is literally the same argument as smeags, and RJ i think is trying to argue against that. You don’t like him arguing against that because it’s your belief as well.p so you delete it. 

 

Edit: didn’t mean to post so quickly.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Craiger

[LA_TN]

1 minute ago, Craiger said:

“Personally, I maintain we would be where we are today, regardless of who was in leadership - local or national - because of, well, the people”

And yet, nowhere does it say that I disagree with RJ...

Sorry you interpret it that way, that was just to reinforce @smeagolsfreeoriginal comment, which was "We have stupid leaders (both sides) and stupid people (both sides)".

And now we see why I don't like politics. Can we talk about skyscrapers now? 

[markhollin]

Please folks...take all of this over to the thread I started in The Coffeehouse:
 

[ruraljuror]

58 minutes ago, LA_TN said:

OK, well, I was trying to ignore, but

1) show me where I said that I "personally disagree with what RJ posted"

2) (from earlier post) please show me where I stated "you admit in your reply that you disagree with the politics of the one single post"

No sir, my point was to put a stop to the political debate that should be in the coffee house. And now you are on a rant because of it

Please focus on the topic of this thread and take the politics to the coffee house!

Thanks for responding, LA_TN.  I think you've clarified the issue pretty well here actually.  

You said "Did your posts contribute to the discussion?    .......no" and also 'would this post make you proud of our city if seen by an outsider?' My answer to both of these questions is different from yours, but I do still think your assessment that my posts 'don't contribute to the discussion' and 'don't represent our city/urban planet page in the way you'd like' are totally fair interpretations. These are  your completely justifiable opinions and you have a right to them.

But, if your goal is to end the political discussion in its entirety, then singling out posts for deletion seems like a pretty poor tactic toward accomplishing that goal.  In previous political discussions, even when a single post has clearly violated community guidelines and/or has included some wildly offensive language which deserves deletion, most moderators here have had the good sense to delete several of the other political posts (including posts they may agree with) in order to go out of their way to limit the impression of personal bias. In your case, it seems like you went with the exact opposite strategy in a way that actually amplifies the impression that personal bias drove your decision making about which posts to remove. Correct me if I'm wrong here, of course, but I see no other way to understand why you thought Armacing's post about Red vs. Blue state fiscal health did in fact 'contribute to the discussion' and 'reflect positively on the city' in ways that my post in response did not. To be clear, I would agree with you that Armacing's posts were positive contributions as well, but I think  you'd probably have to apply some pretzel logic to distinguish why my posts deserved deletion but his did not - unless the answer is simply that personal bias clouded your judgement, which is OK and happens to us all, but I would hope that those in positions of power that allow them to shape the debate would try to be exceptionally mindful not to wield that power irresponsibly.

I grant that you're a new moderator and there is certainly a learning curve which I understand, but given your relative lack of experience (and apparent disinterest in political discussions to begin with) maybe you should consult with some more experienced mods before choosing to exercise that power. I know both Smeags and Mark are busy (which is one of reasons you were brought on as a moderator), but I'm sure a simple DM to UTGrad or Dmills could help shed some light on how best to address these issues. Hell, even Timmay still stops by every now and again, and he's been gone for the better part of a decade.

That said, I do appreciate the response and explanation - no harm no foul - and now back to discussing skyscrapers (or Economic Conditions in this thread, I suppose) as you please.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by ruraljuror

[Nash_12South]

I'll try to stay on topic, but observations over the weekend. I went to the Mall at Green Hills yesterday. I'd estimate a 2/3's of normal crowd with everyone wearing masks once they actually got inside. Optimistically, I think a higher percentage of actual folks buying stuff rather than just looking. Most stores seem to be monitoring the front door to be sure people are wearing masks and some limiting how many can come in.  Jos. A Bank was closed. I'll wager due to the bankruptcy filing of this week. Arhaus a new furniture store (upper level by Dillards) was open. It was nice and busy. From eating out. and not just in 12South, I'm thinking most restaurants are operating at over 50% but no where near 100%. They are busy but not packed. I'll also note that staff were jumping on folks venturing from tables without masks. I'm hearing that car sales are stronger than was feared with a lot of the drop related to fleet sales to rental companies (they are essentially  non-existent). I'll admit to trying to find the upsides where I can.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Nash_12South

[SJT]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/nashville-broadway-bars-party-pandemic-masks-1041693/

[Nash_12South]

Anecdotally, I heard that the police had to be strong armed into starting to issue citations and those getting them have been given multiple chances to just put on a mask and go on their way, but refuse. The police are also moving to a wider area than just Broadway this week, I was told.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Nash_12South

[Nashvillain]

5 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

Anecdotally, I heard that the police had to be strong armed into starting to issue citations and those getting them have been given multiple chances to just put on a mask and go on their way, but refuse. The police are also moving to a wider area than just Broadway this week, I was told.

Ya think? For weeks they did nothing. Clearly, something happened behind the scenes between MNPD and the mayor's office. Also probably not a coincidence that Chief Anderson retired the same day MNPD issued its first mask citation and arrest--who just so happened to be a chronically homeless black man

[Nash_12South]

17 minutes ago, Nashvillain said:

Ya think? For weeks they did nothing. Clearly, something happened behind the scenes between MNPD and the mayor's office. Also probably not a coincidence that Chief Anderson retired the same day MNPD issued its first mask citation and arrest--who just so happened to be a chronically homeless black man

For what it's worth - The story I heard on the homeless person was he had been asked repeatedly, over days, to wear a mask, including being given one and tore up the initial citation and threw it in the officer's face. The police got how bad the optics were, but did it anyway.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Nash_12South

[Nashvillain]

22 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

For what it's worth - The story I heard on the homeless person was he had been asked repeatedly, over days, to wear a mask, including being given one and tore up the initial citation and threw it in the officer's face. The police got how bad the optics were, but did it anyway.

The version of the story printed in the Tennessean says the man was issued a warning, he had two masks in his pocket but didn't put one on. An hour later, he was in the same spot, still not wearing a mask which is when the arrest was made. I didn't see anything about him being warned over many days.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/06/nashville-mask-mandate-arrest-homeless-man-highlights-enforcement-disparity-sparks-outcry/3309150001/

Either way, the story paints a certain picture of MNPD's seemingly dismissive stance towards the mayor's office. As for extending the area where MNPD operates, this can probably be attributed to the notorious "Fashion Party" last week in a house just off Trinity Lane/Whites Creek Pk. MNPD was called to the scene but didn't issue any citations or arrests, but they did tow a few cars illegally parked (the cars were subsequently quarantined awaiting a negative Covid test). 

[bigeasy]

15 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

For what it's worth - The story I heard on the homeless person was he had been asked repeatedly, over days, to wear a mask, including being given one and tore up the initial citation and threw it in the officer's face. The police got how bad the optics were, but did it anyway.

You aren't supposed to post the whole story, only the parts that make the MNPD look bad. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by bigeasy

[Nash_12South]

15 minutes ago, bigeasy said:

You aren't supposed to post the whole story, only the parts that make the MNPD look bad. 

I was relating what a retired officer was telling me. I didn't realize it was making the MNPD look bad, as the person relating the story was embarrassed that it happened. I apologize for offending folks. Not my intention.

[DDIG]

17 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

For what it's worth - The story I heard on the homeless person was he had been asked repeatedly, over days, to wear a mask, including being given one and tore up the initial citation and threw it in the officer's face. The police got how bad the optics were, but did it anyway.

I can't find the interview with the homeless man but he admitted as much and its in the police report. It looks bad that he was the first arrested, but the guy literally kept taunting the cop and getting back in his face without a mask and would throw the mask on the ground, etc. 

EDIT: found the interview: https://www.newschannel5.com/news/from-ticket-and-arrest-to-employed-and-hopeful-joseph-bryant-says-strangers-bailed-him-out

Edited August 11, 2020 by DDIG

[DDIG]

Thank God we got Amazon before everything went to hell: https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2020/08/11/amazon-nashville-expansion-covid-19-pandemic/3335875001/

[markhollin]

Nashville businesses have lost an estimated $500 million in revenue due to convention cancellations during the pandemic, and the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corp. expects it to hit "close to a billion dollars," by the end of the pandemic, NCVC President and CEO Butch Spyridon said Tuesday.

Additionally, cancellations are expect to cost taxpayers roughly $43.11 million in local and $40.38 million in state taxes during that time period, according to the NCVC. Overall, the city saw $100 million in revenue lost in the first few months of the pandemic.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2020/08/11/nashville-tourism-losses-coronavirus-pandemic-expected-reach-1-billion-convention/3340003001/

[VSRJ]

Anytime I start to feel a sliver of optimism, this thread keeps me in check.  

[Nash_12South]

Minor changes coming into effect on Monday 8/17. The only real change is Limited Service Restaurants and Bars can be open up to 25 patrons. This is aimed to help smaller neighborhood establishments rather than Broadway. No seating at bars.  My sense from the mayor's comments is that this is a test to see how well the restaurant/bars can comply before any wider openings. Oh, and restaurants can stay open until 10:30, but they have to be closed at 10:30 (empty of patrons). ( a gain of 30 minutes) Apologies for how big the pic is.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Nash_12South

[downtownresident]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

Minor changes coming into effect on Monday 8/17. The only real change is Limited Service Restaurants and Bars can be open up to 25 patrons. This is aimed to help smaller neighborhood establishments rather than Broadway. No seating at bars.  My sense from the mayor's comments is that this is a test to see how well the restaurant/bars can comply before any wider openings. Oh, and restaurants can stay open until 10:30, but they have to be closed at 10:30 (empty of patrons). ( a gain of 30 minutes) Apologies for how big the pic is.

The To-Go Alcohol ban in Midtown/Downtown is honestly BS and blatantly targeted. Glad that bars, particularly smaller bars, can open back up with limited capacity. 

[Nash_12South]

1 hour ago, downtownresident said:

The To-Go Alcohol ban in Midtown/Downtown is honestly BS and blatantly targeted. Glad that bars, particularly smaller bars, can open back up with limited capacity. 

The images of folks, not wearing masks, on Broadway, are going to kill any hope of their reopening anytime soon. The to-go cups accentuated those images since you can't drink and wear a mask. At a minimum folks need to be seen wearing masks while going between bars - as ridiculous as it may seem to some. PR/Optics are very important right now, from a business perspective. If the bar owners made a concerted effort to get folks wearing masks it would help. The police will help but not enough. My lame ideas include bar themed masks, funny masks, whatever it takes to make them a little more wearable. I know someone adapting the chains used for old folks reading glasses to make masks easier to keep up with and remove and not have to hold on to, or dangle from an ear. The health reasons are lost on these folks, generally on vacation, so there may need to be different approaches to getting them to wear masks. Colder weather might help....I don't know.  It may be totally unworkable to reopen these venues until next spring unless they think out of the box and address what is happening just outside their venues too.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Nash_12South

[MidTenn1]

From an e-mail from the Titans I just received (as a founding member season ticket holder);

Quote

GAMEDAY UPDATE: TITANS vs JAGUARS

As you all know, we have been working diligently over the past few months with league, state and local officials and health experts on a solution for fan attendance at Titans games this season. This morning, Nashville Mayor John Cooper and the Titans will announce together that the Titans vs. Jaguars home opener on Sept. 20 will be played without fans due to the COVID-19 pandemic. While this news is tough to share, we understand this decision as our region continues to battle the virus. Over the past several months, we have worked tirelessly in conjunction with local health experts, including the Metro Nashville Public Health Department, to build the Titans Safe Stadium Plan, which is designed to provide the safest experience for those attending an event in the stadium. We will continue that preparation and collaboration with local authorities in the hope that fans are allowed to attend games soon. ...... While things may look a little differently this year, our determination to provide you with a first-class experience remains unchanged. We are hopeful that we will operate Nissan Stadium at a limited capacity, with our seating chart reorganized to comply with social distancing guidelines and other health requirements, at a later date.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by PHofKS

[Nash_12South]

I'd love for the games to have fans, but I see challanges in getting fans into the stadiums, to concessions and to their seats with some semblance of social distancing. All you need is a handful of stubborn non mask wearing fans to create a PR mess.

[MidTenn1]

It will probably apply to soccer and Vandy and TSU football also.

I didn't renew my season tickets this year as I had no confidence they could assure my safety at the games, so I rolled over my payment to the next season as we were allowed to do.

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, PHofKS said:

It will probably apply to soccer and Vandy and TSU football also.

I didn't renew my season tickets this year as I had no confidence they could assure my safety at the games, so I rolled over my payment to the next season as we were allowed to do.

Its great they gave the season ticket holders that option. I have some other friends that are ST holders and I am interested to see what they did.