The Coronavirus thread

[davidclt]

1 hour ago, A2. said:

Check out the other from one of the many doctors who understand the same thing. The bottom line is a virus can’t be caught as the world believes. It can only be caught by way of blood (ie sharing needles). This is just scientific fact. I don’t understand why the powers that be can’t tell people this simple truth. 
Yet here we are locked down and practicing social distancing, scared of our own shadows. The lies to scare us all have a MUCH DARKER agenda. I just am speaking plain facts about viruses. When it comes to what is the plan, the Covid-19 is the least of our concerns, I promise. 

So the cold viruses (rhinoviruses not bacteria as the video indicated I only listened until this part, it's three minutes of my life I'll never get back) I've gotten throughout my life, I've been injecting? My parents injected me with varicella which ensured I had chicken pox as a child and shingles as an adult? I mean herpes is often injected but I don't think that's the sort of injection the narrator of your video was thinking about.

Edited April 4, 2020 by davidclt

[CLT2014]

Curve isn't flattening in NC. Lots of people still out and about shopping (home improvement stores packed as people pursue their weekend projects), with friends at the park, and interacting between households (seeing girlfriend/boyfriend, parents, and best friends still) et. and more spread into rural counties.

"The number of COVID-19 cases reported on Saturday morning jumped from 2,093 on Friday around 11 a.m. to 2,402 in 88 counties. The 309 new cases mark the largest one-day surge as the novel coronavirus spreads to more counties in the state.

Twenty-four deaths were reported and 271 people are currently hospitalized."

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article241734756.html

Edited April 4, 2020 by CLT2014

[gman430]

^Proof that the “stay at home” orders these states are enacting are a joke. People are not staying home. It’s an unenforceable law.

Edited April 4, 2020 by gman430

[elrodvt]

No, it's not non-enforceable. It's worked quite well in areas with a strong sense of community.

There should be substantial civil penalties. Also, no health care services should be available to anyone issued a citation since they're not worth anyone sacrificing their health over.

[TCLT]

^Proof that the “stay at home” orders these states are enacting are a joke. People are not staying home. It’s an unenforceable law.

NC stay at home order is less than a week old. Meck order only a few days older. Case counts are a lagging indicator, especially since we’re only testing people with symptoms. You can’t make any conclusions about their effectiveness for another 1-2 weeks at least.

And yes these orders could (should?) be more forceful but governments are trying to strike a difficult balance for exactly the reasons you and A2 have been ranting conspiratorially about.

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Curve isn't flattening in NC. Lots of people still out and about shopping (home improvement stores packed as people pursue their weekend projects), with friends at the park, and interacting between households (seeing girlfriend/boyfriend, parents, and best friends still) et. and more spread into rural counties.

"The number of COVID-19 cases reported on Saturday morning jumped from 2,093 on Friday around 11 a.m. to 2,402 in 88 counties. The 309 new cases mark the largest one-day surge as the novel coronavirus spreads to more counties in the state.

Twenty-four deaths were reported and 271 people are currently hospitalized."

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article241734756.html

CLT, i'm not sure looking at daily numbers is that helpful given all the variables? (More testing? Faster reporting?, Etc). I think we should be focused on the weekly slope of the curve.

[gman430]

A total of 1,224 coronavirus deaths have been reported in the US on Saturday. This is the most deaths reported in one day thus far.

There are now a total of 8,376 deaths nationwide.

Friday, April 3, was the previous day with the most deaths added when 1,094 deaths were reported.

[nicholas]

3 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I don't know the context but I do know that single source quoting the ny post is not worth my time looking at. 

A2 & Nicholas you would be well served moving to Arkansas. ;-)Then your senator would reflect your values. Your posts and his public comments are equally irresponsible.

All said, I do agree the power grab resultant to 911 should be watched for a repeat (along with lies as to who was responsible). The current communist fear mongering is already being used to distract from the federal government doing such a crap job.

I have also appreciated A2 economic posts previously. Maybe you could comment on that?

We need downvotes back.  That's an insulting comment when basically all of my posts in this thread have been arguments against people who think coronavirus is nothing more than the flu, or think that we don't need shelter in place orders, or somehow think the federal government has handled this even remotely acceptably. 

The media, and China, have both proven that they will distort the truth to fit their narrative, and I think it is a huge mistake not to question what is being reported. 

[elrodvt]

Your conspiracy comment on covid being man made was ridiculous.  Same crap the senator from Arkansas was spouting. That's all I meant and has no reflection on your other posts. Plus, I thought it was funny in a tin foil hat way. Im sorry this insults you rather than makes you realize it was wrong to say with nothing to back it up from reputable sources in virology. Say what you want though. Free world.

[elrodvt]

Regardless, @nicholas, I'm sorry to have offended in retrospect. I do agree their numbers were and are are bs. Not that we and our allies were not aware of this. US intelligence raised concerns in January. Our allies Taiwan and Korea were well aware and actually used that time to prepare.

This stuff from Cotton made me see red: https://khn.org/morning-breakout/arkansas-senator-stokes-debunked-conspiracy-that-coronavirus-was-manufactured-by-chinese-government/

[gman430]

How does she suggest I eat? Am I just supposed to starve? Ummm...okay????

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-05-20/h_0001975a8f0f7ed1fa8f2d820f394d98

“This is the moment to not be going to the grocery store, not going to the pharmacy,“

Edited April 5, 2020 by gman430

[elrodvt]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-case-counts-are-meaningless/?ex_cid

[A2.]

Morning gang, after some soul searching, I truly don’t want anyone to get their frustrations up. I apologize if I added to that frustration in any way by my prior comments. I’m willing to swallow my pride and say I’m sorry. That said, I do want you all to know that I love this board, dissenting opinions and all, and I also love the QC. That said I have one video I truly want you to spend ten minutes to watch. It’s not really even about virology or C19, it’s about something bigger, and more important to all of us, our liberty and the truth we all need right now. 
Regardless if your a city dweller or backwoods preppier, or some suburban family of five, this is a story about us.  It pertains to the very essence of what I’m concerned is actually happening. Time will tell, but bottom line, I’m sorry for instigating anything, and truly want you all to know, I make wrong statements and I know we all do. Let’s appreciate all opinion and use the wisdom we have to decipher truth and intent. I know plenty of people with good hearts who have misguided information and evil hearts that have facts. But the real truth is that we as a people need each other and even need the opposing viewpoints. We are a people of diverse backgrounds and a people that seek Truth. That said, please watch. 

and even if you disagree, with the below message, that’s fine. It’s just a call to all to see below the surface and see if you agree or not. The guy is a little extreme, but his heart is what I’m asking you to listen to. Don’t judge him, just listen and let me know your thoughts. And please, if you disagree, then do so in a civil manner. Let’s not attack each other, but rather love and respect our fellow UPer!
 

https://m.beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2020/04/all-s-l-a-v-e-s-better-watch-this-now-3719678.html

 

much love!

A2

[CLT2014]

^Watched it. There is TRUE tyranny (which is not what we are experiencing in this country right now) and then being a baby and freaking out you can't do whatever you want, whenever you want, just because you are a selfish human being and equate selfishness with freedom. Some people like to murder others and rape people... we've determined that isn't ok and you don't have the freedom to do that because of the harm to another person. Some people like to get drunk (their choice), but it isn't ok to get behind a wheel while drunk. Right now roaming around town spreading the virus everywhere HURTS other people, so the guy could man up and stay at home for 4 weeks so this could end, or he could beg for attention like a child and equate his plight of not being able to roam around Costco for pleasure with the tyranny people faced in Uganda, North Korea, Iran, China, Myanmar, Belarus, et.

I'd guess he would feel differently if his job involved helping others and trying to avoid less people ending up in a body bags from this virus, rather than trying to make some income off enough sensationalist Youtube videos that he gets enough clicks to make ad money and avoid a real job. Instead he's trying to make himself a "victim" in all this. Yeah dude.... the attention has shifted to people who are dying and sick. Sorry you aren't the most important person in the room at the moment. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by CLT2014

[CLT2014]

17 hours ago, elrodvt said:

CLT, i'm not sure looking at daily numbers is that helpful given all the variables? (More testing? Faster reporting?, Etc). I think we should be focused on the weekly slope of the curve.

Good point! Here is the curve as of today for NC (hopefully we see a better trend continue):

Edited April 5, 2020 by CLT2014

[kermit]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Could point! Here is the curve as of today for NC (hopefully we see a better trend continue):

Hopefully it is the start of a trend. Unfortunately it could also be due to a lag in weekend reporting. Its not unlikely that some test results go unreported over the weekend just because some people (in the data reporting chain) are off work. You can (barely) see similar lags  on March 22, and March 29, both also weekends. Those underreports are hard to see because the log scale reduces the visibility of past daily variation. We should have a better idea from the Tuesday-Wednesday data.

Unfortunately, the diagnosis data we are seeing is total crap, as long as testing is hard to get, and only goes to people with very visible symptoms, we will never have an idea about actual infection rates.

Edited April 5, 2020 by kermit

[gman430]

The death toll from the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy rose by 525 to 15,887, the lowest daily death toll in more than two weeks, while the number of patients in intensive care fell for the second day running, the Civil Protection department said on Sunday.

[kermit]

28 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The death toll from the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy rose by 525 to 15,887, the lowest daily death toll in more than two weeks, while the number of patients in intensive care fell for the second day running, the Civil Protection department said on Sunday.

Not trying to start a fight, just asking the question: how do you rationalize those numbers with your opinions about stay at home orders?

[A2.]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

^Watched it. There is TRUE tyranny (which is not what we are experiencing in this country right now) and then being a baby and freaking out you can't do whatever you want, whenever you want, just because you are a selfish human being and equate selfishness with freedom. Some people like to murder others and rape people... we've determined that isn't ok and you don't have the freedom to do that because of the harm to another person. Some people like to get drunk (their choice), but it isn't ok to get behind a wheel while drunk. Right now roaming around town spreading the virus everywhere HURTS other people, so the guy could man up and stay at home for 4 weeks so this could end, or he could beg for attention like a child and equate his plight of not being able to roam around Costco for pleasure with the tyranny people faced in Uganda, North Korea, Iran, China, Myanmar, Belarus, et.

I'd guess he would feel differently if his job involved helping others and trying to avoid less people ending up in a body bags from this virus, rather than trying to make some income off enough sensationalist Youtube videos that he gets enough clicks to make ad money and avoid a real job. Instead he's trying to make himself a "victim" in all this. Yeah dude.... the attention has shifted to people who are dying and sick. Sorry you aren't the most important person in the room at the moment. 

To that point, why didn’t we have the same reaction with SARS, Mers, H1N1, Zika, and all the other EQUALLY DEADLY viruses? Not attacking, just asking. 
 

and for what it’s worth a global depression will kill a LOT MORE PEOPLE than this. Diarrhea kills 15 times more people that C19, yet for some reason we aren’t shutting down the world for that. It’s just a very honest observation.

 And when you can’t practice your Constitutional rights, that is the definition of tyranny. Just so we are clear, people are being arrested in certain states for violating their shelter in place orders, yet in those same states they are letting non violent criminals go. Hmmmmm, seems logical. 
 

Edited April 5, 2020 by A2.

[southslider]

11 minutes ago, A2. said:

To that point, why didn’t we have the same reaction with SARS, Mers, H1N1, Zika, and all the other EQUALLY DEADLY viruses? Not attacking, just asking. 

Because those weren't equally deadly, due to more successful containment and lower contagion rate.

[elrodvt]

This guy really needs to be removed from tv:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sean-hannity-gov-cuomo-stop-denying-new-yorkers-hydroxychloroquine

[videtur quam contuor]

This is not a new flu. This is a new *novel* virus. It is far more contagious than previous influenzas, at least in the past two decades. It is also more deadly. It is unwise to look at diagnosed numbers today and deaths today for COVID because we are deep into it without the perspective necessary to cast numbers with reliability. Yet it is true that the mortality for COVID is greater. The H1N1 spared many older people because it WAS a kind of flu and many older people at that time had some immunity due to contacts earlier in their lifetime.

The truth is out there.

https://www.biospace.com/article/2009-h1n1-pandemic-versus-the-2020-coronavirus-pandemic/

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

[videtur quam contuor]

My older sister had whooping cough as an infant. In our family photo box was a photograph of my mother holding my sister in front of our* front door with a placard as large as a real estate For Sale sign tacked next to the door -"QUARANTINE" warning all to avoid entry and avoid those who live there. The Public Health Department provided these for doctors to place when they made house calls to diagnose such diseases. Can you imagine today? Other diseases were treated the same way. The difference today is that we do not know who has the disease so all are at risk and must be considered potential vectors. 

*I say our house because I was yet born though lived in said house until about age two.

[A2.]

13 minutes ago, southslider said:

Because those weren't equally deadly, due to more successful containment and lower contagion rate.

Based on what?  government statistics. You guys.......
 

I don’t have a political dog in this fight, but if you believe every number that you are seeing from the propaganda piece (aka main stream media), then that’s fine. But there are equally smart people, that disagree vehemently with the “official narrative”. The bottom line is that this is a crisis being used to demolish the middle class and implode the economy. This is by design, and I promise you, starvation is a hell of a lot worse than what this virus can dish out. I know friends and family who are now out of work.
 

A global depression is being manufactured right in front of us, and we are here just discussing the boogeyman of C19, that most all who contract it, live. And even the government admits those facts. The epic level of unemployment that’s coming in like a tsunami is going to be FAR worse than anyone here can even imagine.

Lastly, if it was so deadly, and they want us shuttered in our homes, why the hell don’t they close the grocery stores? This is counterintuitive and illogical, even to you guys who are absolutely on board that this is the next Spanish Flu. 

Just let me know, why haven’t they shut down the whole thing???? I see more people out than I ever have. People driving, people hiking, people at the stores, people at the parks, people freggin everywhere. The reason, they can’t go to work, or have lost the work they once had. It’s a total joke.

 

Here’s what is really going on, along with the destruction of the global economy. And this isn’t from some quack. He’s a doctor that goes play by play of what’s being done to each and everyone of us:

https://m.beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2020/04/x22report-spotlight-this-event-was-a-coordinated-last-ditch-effort-by-the-deep-state-moves-countermoves-dr-shiva-video-3516134.html

 

again, I’m just trying to provoke thought, not anger, although I know many here will be. The above is TRUTH. Nothing more, nothing less. It takes a little while to get into the meat and potatoes of the discussion, but the agenda is there. 

[elrodvt]

12 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

My older sister had whooping cough as an infant. In our family photo box was a photograph of my mother holding my sister in front of our* front door with a placard as large as a real estate For Sale sign tacked next to the door -"QUARANTINE" warning all to avoid entry and avoid those who live there. The Public Health Department provided these for doctors to place when they made house calls to diagnose such diseases. Can you imagine today? Other diseases were treated the same way. The difference today is that we do not know who has the disease so all are at risk and must be considered potential vectors. 

*I say our house because I was yet born though lived in said house until about age two.

I really enjoy your memory lane posts! Keep them coming.