The Coronavirus thread

[TCLT]

[mention]Neo [/mention], are you actually gonna do something about [mention]Dale [/mention] or do you only care if someone is mean to him?

[kermit]

3 hours ago, TCLT said:

[mention]Neo [/mention], are you actually gonna do something about [mention]Dale [/mention] or do you only care if someone is mean to him?

Do something about him for what? He is just some dude doing his performative anti-science, anti-public health thing on a -very- obscure corner of the internet. He likes to tweak us.

I agree that its unfortunate that his performance could potentially cost people their lives, but honestly, no one should come to Charlotte UP for public health advice and we are more than capable of pointing out where he goes off the rails.

My vote is to let him continue to spout his nonsense. Eventually he will get tired and move on to something else with more comedic value (Deficits? Climate change is a hoax perpetrated by Scandanavian okra  farmers? The earth is actually flat?).  Censoring him would only deny us his future sideshows.

That said, it would be nice if Dale had a few more interesting urban-Charlotte points to make outside this thread...

Edited February 13, 2021 by kermit

[go_vertical]

The stupid anti-mask crap littering the last page is a big part of the reason why I don't participate on these forums anymore (not that I did all that often anyways). The fact that after a year idiot's are still acting this way makes me loose a tiny bit of hope for humanity. Half a million of your fellow Americans are dead and yet you can't stop with your "ha ha, you all are stupid, fudge the suffering" attitude. It's fudgeing disgusting and you and your ilk should be ashamed for your troll like behavior this entire time. 

Now, before you start typing your knee-jerk, smug, and callous response to this please take a few seconds to actually understand what it is I'm trying to convey here. Stop reveling in the struggling of your own society. 

Also, if there wasn't a big improvement in areas where mask mandates were in place then maybe all of the dipcrap anti-maskers that refused to participate had something to do with that. 

I really wish the.mods would do something about this pathetic crap.

Edited February 13, 2021 by go_vertical
I didn't type fudge or dipcrap at all.

[Norm2]

Remember, there is an option to block people so you can't see their posts. I have used it and OMG it is a life changer on here lol

[TCLT]

22 minutes ago, kermit said:

Do something about him for what? He is just some dude doing his performative anti-science, anti-public health thing on a -very- obscure corner of the internet. He likes to tweak us.

I agree that its unfortunate that his performance could potentially cost people their lives, but honestly, no one should come to Charlotte UP for public health advice and we are more than capable of pointing out where he goes off the rails.

My vote is to let him continue to spout his nonsense. Eventually he will get tired and move on to something else with more comedic value (Deficits? Climate change is a hoax created by Scandanavian okra  farmers? The earth is flat?).  Censoring him would only deny us his future sideshows.

That said, it would be nice if Dale had a few more interesting urban-Charlotte points to make outside this thread...

Why would you vote to continue to give him a platform to lie? To treat his lies as legitimate speech worth of consideration? To treat a bad faith actor as a normal member of a community? To allow someone to derail an otherwise worthwhile discussion and distract from real conversation?

I for one expect the mods and admins to ensure that there's a space for sincere sharing of ideas and debate. That means excising propaganda, lies, disinformation, and the people that spread it. There's no reason to give bad faith actors free rein, on this forum or anywhere else. That's far more important than policing for insults, but takes some actual courage. And personally blocking posters works, but some posters are so out of line that they should lose their access entirely. Dale is a clear example of one.

[videtur quam contuor]

yes, and already done

1 hour ago, norm21499 said:

Remember, there is an option to block people so you can't see their posts. I have used it and OMG it is a life changer on here lol

 

[kermit]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:46 PM, TCLT said:

Why would you vote to continue to give him a platform to lie? To treat his lies as legitimate speech worth of consideration? To treat a bad faith actor as a normal member of a community? To allow someone to derail an otherwise worthwhile discussion and distract from real conversation?

I for one expect the mods and admins to ensure that there's a space for sincere sharing of ideas and debate. That means excising propaganda, lies, disinformation, and the people that spread it. There's no reason to give bad faith actors free rein, on this forum or anywhere else. That's far more important than policing for insults, but takes some actual courage. And personally blocking posters works, but some posters are so out of line that they should lose their access entirely. Dale is a clear example of one.

Gezzus, I can't believe I am here 'defending' Dale.

I think context is important in this case. Dale spouts all of his UP BS in a place where we are all free to reply and refute and explain why his views are generally without any evidence or logic to support them. His views are not elevated over any one else's on the board and he has not constrained the replies of others by attempting to be the loudest voice in the room. 

I don't want to ascribe motivations to his postings, but I always assumed he is just trolling us, but with his genuinely-held opinions. Weather or not that is in bad faith, I can't say. Given that, I am uncomfortable censoring legitimate his genuinely held (if misinformed), opinions, and there is always a chance that our replies may have an educational value to folks who may stumble into the thread.  This really is a community, which (to me) means that we have the responsibility to police BS posts.  I think its kinda lazy to appeal to authority to silence him instead (and I fear that such a strategy could just produce more trolls (or the same trolls with different user names) down the road).

I do agree that life threatening bullsh1t  (e.g. "masks don't work") is dangerous in any context. But since this is a site about cities, and not about public health, I think our repeated, evidenced-based, refutations are probably sufficient.

I dunno, I don't want to spend anymore time defending the troll. This is just my perspective.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by kermit

[TCLT]

Gezzus, I can't believe I am here 'defending' Dale.
I think context is important in this case. Dale spouts all of his UP BS in a place where we are all free to reply and refute and explain why his views are generally without any evidence or logic to support them. His views are not elevated over any one else's on the board and he has not constrained the replies of others by attempting to be the loudest voice in the room. 
I don't want to ascribe motivations to his postings, but I always assumed he is just trolling us, but with his genuinely-held opinions. Weather or not that is in bad faith, I can't say. Given that, I am uncomfortable censoring legitimate (if misheld) opinions, and there is always a chance that our replies may have an educational value to those reading the thread.  This really is a community, which (to me) means that we have the responsibility to police BS posts.  I think its kinda lazy to appeal to authority to silence him instead (and I fear that such a strategy could just produce more trolls (or the same trolls with different user names) down the road).
I do agree that life threatening bullsh1t  (e.g. "masks don't work") is dangerous in any context. But since this is a site about cities, and not about public health, I think our repeated, evidenced-based, refutations are probably sufficient.
I dunno, I don't want to spend anymore time defending the troll. This is just my perspective.
 

I believe you need to re-evaluate your threshold for “legitimate”.

And just because a opinion is “genuinely held”, doesn’t mean it should be given a platform to be voiced. And after a year of repeating the same wrong “opinion”, there needs to be a time when we say enough is enough.

[kermit]

FWIW: Here are a couple of classic posts from Dale. I would think they would be enough for everyone here to stop taking him seriously:

Here is is saying that racism in America is overstated in August 2017 (after Charlottesville and before George Floyd):

And here he says that World War Two was a bad idea (this may be the stupidest take I have read ever):

 

[kermit]

12 minutes ago, TCLT said:

I believe you need to re-evaluate your threshold for “legitimate”.
 

You are right. I misspoke with that. I was trying to say that I think he believes the propaganda he is spewing.

Edited February 13, 2021 by kermit

[TCLT]

FWIW: Here are a couple of classic posts from Dale. I would think they would be enough for everyone here to stop taking him seriously:
Here is is saying that racism in America is overstated in August 2017 (after Charlottesville and before George Floyd):

And here he says that World War Two was a bad idea (this may be the stupidest take I have read ever):

 

So you’re defending him why? There is no defensible reason to be tolerant of his continuing ability to post. The guy is toxic and contributes nothing positive. Yet he’s still allowed to post freely. But if I call him a fool and link to posts that prove it my post will get deleted because somehow that’s worse than constantly derailing discussions with lies, cruelty, and racism. But Dale is absolutely a fool and a despicable person and a detriment to this forum. Check back later and see if this post is still here.

[JorgiPorgi]

This is my first visit to the coronavirus thread. I should never have came. It reminds one of my own family: 

The half of my family that lives here across the Piedmont, and is around far more people, all wear masks. The other half of my family that lives up near the smokies in the Franklin NC area, do not wear masks. They encounter less people. Almost everyone in my mountain family has gotten Covid, and spread it rapidly. 2 of which were on ventilators. Only two people in my family down here in the Piedmont got Covid. The rest of us haven’t gotten it yet. Again being in more urban areas we are avid mask wearers and believe the science. My roomate is a family member. she had Covid and got over it. We both wore masks in the house. I never got it. A mask has never effected my perception of freedom. It hasn’t kept me from doing anything. Just like a seatbelt, which is actually a larger piece of cloth, has not stopped me from driving. The helmet I wear while biking does not stop me from biking where I please.  I’m still able to do everything I did before, safer. The shoes I wear to keep my feet safe from glass, rocks, etc do not stop me from walking where I please. 
 

In conclusion, with Covid, I combine scientific data with personal experience. I have followed the advice and have been safe so far, as most of my pro mask family has been. I don’t think we should censor someone’s opinion(it’s def not fact at this point) on masks. Though I strongly disagree with antimaskers, I think most of us are smart enough to read anti maskers posts and say, this is conspiracy theory based thinking and the only people that will believe in this, are also morons. Then, we move on. 

[kermit]

23 minutes ago, TCLT said:

So you’re defending him why? There is no defensible reason to be tolerant of his continuing ability to post. The guy is toxic and contributes nothing positive. Yet he’s still allowed to post freely. But if I call him a fool and link to posts that prove it my post will get deleted because somehow that’s worse than constantly derailing discussions with lies, cruelty, and racism. But Dale is absolutely a fool and a despicable person and a detriment to this forum. Check back later and see if this post is still here.

I am not defending him, I am defending everyone's ability to post stupid crap.

The next time I go off the rails and say that Charlotte needs to impose a $10 congestion charge for everywhere within 5 miles of uptown and ban all parking garages on transit I don't want the real estate agents and developers who post here to try to get me banned because they fear that I am threatening their livelihoods. I also suspect that my exhortations to ban cars has about as much impact on the development community as Dale's anti-science bullsh1t has on UP readers (none at all).

This site still has some scars from its history with an authoritarian moderator, lots of folks got banned for pretty benign stuff (I am on my second UP user ID). I appreciate UP management's efforts to avoid repeating that mistake.

Edited February 13, 2021 by kermit

[TCLT]

I am not defending him, I am defending everyone's ability to post stupid crap.
The next time I go off the rails and say that Charlotte needs to impose a $10 congestion charge for everywhere within 5 miles of uptown and ban all parking garages on transit I don't want the real estate agents and developers who post here to try to get me banned because they fear that I am threatening their livelihoods. I also suspect that my exhortations to ban cars has about as much impact on the development community as Dale's anti-science bullsh1t has on UP readers (none at all).
This site still has some scars from its history with an authoritarian moderator, lots of folks got banned for pretty benign stuff (I am on my second UP user ID). I appreciate UP management's efforts to avoid repeating that mistake.

There’s a difference between bad ideas and lies. Your point might’ve applied to Dale last April but at this point his bullcrap shouldn’t be tolerated.

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, TCLT said:

There’s a difference between bad ideas and lies. Your point might’ve applied to Dale last April but at this point his bullcrap shouldn’t be tolerated.

This is where I would post an emoji that says: "I agree with you but..."

[Dale]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:13 PM, kermit said:

Do something about him for what? He is just some dude doing his performative anti-science, anti-public health thing on a -very- obscure corner of the internet. He likes to tweak us.

I agree that its unfortunate that his performance could potentially cost people their lives, but honestly, no one should come to Charlotte UP for public health advice and we are more than capable of pointing out where he goes off the rails.

My vote is to let him continue to spout his nonsense. Eventually he will get tired and move on to something else with more comedic value (Deficits? Climate change is a hoax perpetrated by Scandanavian okra  farmers? The earth is actually flat?).  Censoring him would only deny us his future sideshows.

That said, it would be nice if Dale had a few more interesting urban-Charlotte points to make outside this thread...

Mark 2020 as the year Americans decided they could no longer live with viruses and branded dissenters as potential mass-murderers.

On 2/13/2021 at 3:12 PM, TCLT said:

There’s a difference between bad ideas and lies. Your point might’ve applied to Dale last April but at this point his bullcrap shouldn’t be tolerated.

Mark 2021 as the year unregulated speech became disinformation.

[Dale]

On 2/13/2021 at 2:28 PM, kermit said:

FWIW: Here are a couple of classic posts from Dale. I would think they would be enough for everyone here to stop taking him seriously:

Here is is saying that racism in America is overstated in August 2017 (after Charlottesville and before George Floyd):

And here he says that World War Two was a bad idea (this may be the stupidest take I have read ever):

 

The courage of the hive mind. 

[Dale]

I should think I’d get a little slack if only for standing against The Great and Powerful Triggered. Whatever the case, I will thank you all not to regard me as the dangerous party. Masks afford the perception of efficacy, per Fauci, and symbolize the the wildly disproportionate response which will almost certainly prove deadlier than any virus by itself. But what does 180 years of virus science know ?

[JorgiPorgi]

Someone triggered by mask wearers is complaining about people being triggered....

The triggery of it all. 

[Dale]

47 minutes ago, JorgiPorgi said:

Someone triggered by mask wearers is complaining about people being triggered....

The triggery of it all. 

Don’t confuse being triggered with ridicule.

I knew a woman who died of cancer late last Spring. Her family related that due to the acute preoccupation with Covid, to the exclusion of all else, her vital treatments kept getting pushed back. I too know someone who died “because of Covid.”

[Dale]

Returned after a bit of a hiatus. Not a lot going on on the developments front. Busy on other platforms. Made a totally innocuous remark about Biden and being sincerely baffled by his Covid (non)strategy. Encircling harpyism ensues. General tenor ...

”Neo, stop this mad man before he kills another grandmother!”

”Don’t be an idiot. Block the guy like I did. It was like I was taking body shots before. I feel better now. But I still get winded when I walk the dog.”

“I did some research and look what he said about WWII in 2016! BWA-HA-HA! Had we taken his advice we’d all be speaking German now AND be on ventilators with Covid!”

Some of you should be embarrassed for not being embarrassed.

 

 

 

[kermit]

19 hours ago, Dale said:

Returned after a bit of a hiatus. Not a lot going on on the developments front. Busy on other platforms. Made a totally innocuous remark about Biden and being sincerely baffled by his Covid (non)strategy. Encircling harpyism ensues.

Before you get too comfortable with your victim status, your remark about Biden virus strategy was hardly innocuous. You suggested that Biden reduce testing to make rates of contagion -look- better.  Feigning surprise when people push back against dangerous suggestions like this (and others) seems more than a little disingenuous.

 

[urbanlover568]

On 2/15/2021 at 12:31 PM, Dale said:

Mark 2020 as the year Americans decided they could no longer live with viruses and branded dissenters as potential mass-murderers.

Mark 2021 as the year unregulated speech became disinformation.

My uncle passed away today because of COVID19. It's really sad how common human decency has been politicized. If people would have masked up, there is a chance my uncle would still be alive today.  Absolutely heartbreaking what's happening. 

[elrodvt]

Did anyone listen to today's Charlotte talks? It was a repeat of a pre-covid episode which interviewed a doctor who for her dissertation studied the Spanish flu or 1918. I think you can find episodes to play offline. Anyhow, one fascinating result was that the flu actually started in Kansas not Spain! We sent over ww1 trips who were infected and it mutated to a much more dangerous form. Spain was the only country in Europe who wasn't censuring their press. Other countries did not want to admit the flu was there because they didn't want to appear weak to their adversaries in ww1.

[Dale]

On 2/16/2021 at 12:37 PM, kermit said:

Before you get too comfortable with your victim status, your remark about Biden virus strategy was hardly innocuous. You suggested that Biden reduce testing to make rates of contagion -look- better.  Feigning surprise when people push back against dangerous suggestions like this (and others) seems more than a little disingenuous.

 

I believe it was Mark Twain who said it’s easier to fool people than to convince them they’ve been fooled. What if testing is the disease ? Cue to: “D’uh, people are dying.” 
 

https://rationalground.com/visualizing-pcr-amplification/

4 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Did anyone listen to today's Charlotte talks? It was a repeat of a pre-covid episode which interviewed a doctor who for her dissertation studied the Spanish flu or 1918. I think you can find episodes to play offline. Anyhow, one fascinating result was that the flu actually started in Kansas not Spain! We sent over ww1 trips who were infected and it mutated to a much more dangerous form. Spain was the only country in Europe who wasn't censuring their press. Other countries did not want to admit the flu was there because they didn't want to appear weak to their adversaries in ww1.

My g-grandfather was sent home, from WWI Europe, with the Spanish Flu. Based on my research, Americans were KEENLY aware that the flu was afoot. KEY DIFFERENCE: in 1918, no one was debating about whether there was a deadly pandemic. Everybody knew someone who’d died. Family members were dying. People were literally dying in the streets. Of course there were disruptions and restrictions. But for the most part, Americans soldiered on.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Dale