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The Greenville coronavirus thread


gman430

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22 hours ago, Exile said:

I don't know about the stories that are referenced here, other than that physicians in France claim to have had success using chloroquinine (sp?), which is an old malaria drug with lots of potential side effects. I'm not qualified to evaluate their claims or anybody's refutation of their claims.

I am qualified to categorize the expressed opinions of the experts, on a continuum from "no big deal" to "the sky is falling." So are you. It does seem to me that a fair number of people who qualify as experts, from both ends of the political spectrum, consider this to be a huge overreaction, based both on an evaluation of the coronavirus itself and its effects, and also on a comparison with other heretofore much more deadly diseases that haven't evoked so much as a whiff of quarantine/social distancing, taking into account contagiousness. 

I'm curious who these experts are that are saying that this is a huge overreaction. I haven't heard that from any experts yet, only politicians, and when that happens I tend to get very worried about it.

 

Additionally, have we seen any measured placed globally (outside of China) backed off as of yet? I don't believe so, things have only escalated. That means everything up to now has essentially been an under reaction, if anything.

Edited by NewlyUpstate
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6 hours ago, NewlyUpstate said:

I'm curious who these experts are that are saying that this is a huge overreaction. I haven't heard that from any experts yet, only politicians, and when that happens I tend to get very worried about it.

 

Additionally, have we seen any measured placed globally (outside of China) backed off as of yet? I don't believe so, things have only escalated. That means everything up to now has essentially been an under reaction, if anything.

If what we're experiencing is an underreaction, what would a proportionate reaction look like to you? An overreaction? Honest question.

I haven't kept a bibliography of things I've read or seen about COVID-19. If your standard fare is mainstream ABC-NBC-CBS-Fox, NYT, etc., you're not likely to have seen any dissenting opinions (and these prognostications--dire or not--are all opinion, in the final analysis). I've followed links on Twitter (good ones; from trustworthy sources), some Catholic News Services, and other sites here and there. I'm not particularly interested in debating the issue. My main point was to urge charity--nobody on this thread is wearing a tin foil hat. We're all rational people.

As I've said, circumstances force me to behave like Chicken Little. My wife's cancer situation is not dire--it's the suppressed immunity that we're most worried about. I'm not sure things would be all that different for us if there were no COVID-19. New territory for us all...

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2 hours ago, Exile said:

If what we're experiencing is an underreaction, what would a proportionate reaction look like to you? An overreaction? Honest question.

I haven't kept a bibliography of things I've read or seen about COVID-19. If your standard fare is mainstream ABC-NBC-CBS-Fox, NYT, etc., you're not likely to have seen any dissenting opinions (and these prognostications--dire or not--are all opinion, in the final analysis). I've followed links on Twitter (good ones; from trustworthy sources), some Catholic News Services, and other sites here and there. I'm not particularly interested in debating the issue. My main point was to urge charity--nobody on this thread is wearing a tin foil hat. We're all rational people.

As I've said, circumstances force me to behave like Chicken Little. My wife's cancer situation is not dire--it's the suppressed immunity that we're most worried about. I'm not sure things would be all that different for us if there were no COVID-19. New territory for us all...

An appropriate response would have been closing borders and implementing a national shelter in place at least a week or two ago. This is an inevitable future at this point in the game and any delay just makes it worse.

Let me know if you come up with those experts names.  I'm guessing they don't tend to hang around the "Catholic News Service" or whatever that is

Edited by NewlyUpstate
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1 hour ago, NewlyUpstate said:

An appropriate response would have been closing borders and implementing a national shelter in place at least a week or two ago. This is an inevitable future at this point in the game and any delay just makes it worse.

Let me know if you come up with those experts names.  I'm guessing they don't tend to hang around the "Catholic News Service" or whatever that is

Geez....this topic is basically wasted....posters as you are either an arrogant 'know-it-all' expert or desire to second guess (or doubt) everything positive that has been done thus far. 

Edited by cabelagent
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12 hours ago, cabelagent said:

Geez....this topic is basically wasted....posters as you are either an arrogant 'know-it-all' expert or desire to second guess (or doubt) everything positive that has been done thus far. 

I'm not trying to be an arrogant know it all, but what we are currently doing in South Carolina has proven to not work anywhere else in the world. What makes you think it will work here?  Why are we special?

The government needs to act and just closing schools, bars, and restaurants will hardly slow this thing down at all. This hasn't worked anywhere else.

This is where we sit based off the historical global data that we currently have: https://covidactnow.org/state/SC

Edited by NewlyUpstate
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Chick-fil-a closed in Clemson and Seneca. Employee tested positive. It is good the owner shared this news, but it seems to me that he also needs to share the date and times this person was working. Folks on the Facebook page going nuts. https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/03/23/coronavirus-two-chick-fil-locations-clemson-and-seneca-closed/2897302001/

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I just read that we might be going back to normal, no social distancing, business and restaurants to open back up, etc.  when the shut down hits day 15 to help out the stock market.   Something about the cure being worse than the sickness.   Thats next week I think.  If this fixes everything Italy could have done this last week and they'd be getting better by now.  It sounds a bit like America saying "hold my beer" to me though.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/trump-social-distancing-coronavirus-rules-guidelines-economy

 

Edited by gvegascple
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A little hope from the White House. President Trump just said they were not going to let the cure be worse than the problem and America would be back to work soon. The medical lady said just about all the deaths in Italy were not only elderly but had at least 3 existing medical conditions. There was a lot more info from supplies to drugs but  I feel a little better now. So please don’t be a Debbie downer.  

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One recent voice of caution. NewlyUpstate, I'll post them as I come across them, and as the direction of this thread seems to warrant. I'm not inclined to go back and find the stuff I have seen. Too time consuming, and they're not hard to find anyway. I'm not looking for them, they just "come across my desk." Interpret as  you will.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

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19 hours ago, NewlyUpstate said:

The government needs to act and just closing schools, bars, and restaurants will hardly slow this thing down at all. This hasn't worked anywhere else.

Some of us are highly doubtful of "the government's" ability to do anything other than increase its own power... As Rahm Emmanuel said (I'm hardly the first to quote him): "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

...or, rarely, like Cincinnatus,* to divest the power once the "crisis" is over. I'm betting there aren't any Cincinnatuses (Cincinnatī) in D.C. for sure. At least not any who are in a position to "be like Cincinnatus." Probably not in Columbia, either. Or, for me, Raleigh.

*famous as a "dictator" in the Roman Republic who gave up his dictatorial powers and went back to his farm once he had defeated the enemy. A virtuous Roman if there ever was one.

Edited by Exile
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12 hours ago, SVL said:

I don't want to be a downer, but he says so much that gets contradicted by his own medical experts on a daily basis.  It's hard to trust him.

Well, Fauci (e.g.) isn't Trump's own medical expert. He was appointed by Reagan. Even if Trump re-appointed him for the umpteenth time.

Trump's the captain of a ship that has many aspects to it. He can't abdicate his command to an underling who oversees the engine room (or whatever analogy you like). There are lots of other considerations of varying importance. I like the transparency of a President who doesn't necessarily or immediately fall in line with his advisors.

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3 hours ago, Exile said:

One recent voice of caution. NewlyUpstate, I'll post them as I come across them, and as the direction of this thread seems to warrant. I'm not inclined to go back and find the stuff I have seen. Too time consuming, and they're not hard to find anyway. I'm not looking for them, they just "come across my desk." Interpret as  you will.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

I've read the article and maybe I'm missing it, but where does he say that the response so far is a huge over reaction?  The thing he is arguing for is waiting for more information before making decisions, I'm sorry but I don't buy that argument.  By the time we have adequate information we will have already known if any actions taken were an under or an over reaction.  This is a perfect case study of analysis paralysis and I'm thankful this guy is not in a decision making place of power.

If anything, reading that article tells me we should be overly cautious for a brief period of time (2-4 weeks) in order to get the necessary information to make a better decision going forward.  We haven't reached the realm of "overly cautious" yet though, so that clock hasn't started.

Edited by NewlyUpstate
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Trump thinks he is an expert on anything he hears more than three sentences about.  I agree 'group think' is a thing and can lead  people astray at times, but so can hubris.  South Korea has had the most success at stop the impact and we should pay close attention to everything they did. 

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6 hours ago, Exile said:

Well, Fauci (e.g.) isn't Trump's own medical expert. He was appointed by Reagan. Even if Trump re-appointed him for the umpteenth time.

Trump's the captain of a ship that has many aspects to it. He can't abdicate his command to an underling who oversees the engine room (or whatever analogy you like). There are lots of other considerations of varying importance. I like the transparency of a President who doesn't necessarily or immediately fall in line with his advisors.

Dr. Fauci is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. I wasn't implying that he was Trump's personal medical expert. He is also not the only one who contradicts what Trump says.

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1 hour ago, SVL said:

Dr. Fauci is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. I wasn't implying that he was Trump's personal medical expert. He is also not the only one who contradicts what Trump says.

The person who contradicts Trump the most? Trump. He contradicts himself every time he speaks. 

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2 hours ago, SVL said:

Dr. Fauci is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. I wasn't implying that he was Trump's personal medical expert. He is also not the only one who contradicts what Trump says.

I understand. That's the point of the "e.g."

 

1 hour ago, gman said:

The person who contradicts Trump the most? Trump. He contradicts himself every time he speaks. 

This is the point where a Coffeehouse politics thread would really come in handy. I don't post enough to start one. Any of you frequent posters want to make it happen? Please?

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On 3/24/2020 at 4:19 PM, Exile said:

I understand. That's the point of the "e.g."

 

This is the point where a Coffeehouse politics thread would really come in handy. I don't post enough to start one. Any of you frequent posters want to make it happen? Please?

LOL...just change the name of this thread. It's already morphed into a political coffeehouse to trash Trump . :whistling:

Edited by cabelagent
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Well I went on Amazon a few days ago and ordered 3 hand sanitizers and one disinfectant wipes. They were in stock. When I went back to see where they were, guess where they are coming from? Thats right, China. I won't get them for at least a month. So China, with 1.4 billion people, over 4 times the US pop. has these things in stock ready to ship to the US yet we have none here. Something is not right with this picture. Of course I would not have ordered if they would tell you where they are coming from upfront. 

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19 hours ago, apaladin said:

Well I went on Amazon a few days ago and ordered 3 hand sanitizers and one disinfectant wipes. They were in stock. When I went back to see where they were, guess where they are coming from? Thats right, China. I won't get them for at least a month. So China, with 1.4 billion people, over 4 times the US pop. has these things in stock ready to ship to the US yet we have none here. Something is not right with this picture. Of course I would not have ordered if they would tell you where they are coming from upfront. 

Guess what else they probably have (or had)? Ventilators.  Oops, should have thought ahead (and not like years like in chess, like as in days or hours) before we started in with all the JIYnuh virus nonsense.  Oh well, I think they are going to Europe now.

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Most barber shops and salons are closing. I went on Amazon yesterday to purchase a Wahl hair cutter. The normal price is about $39.00. The price yesterday was $80.00. I guess I will let my hair get a little shaggy for a few weeks. 

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