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ok you say much of what is called Myers Park isnt really Myers Park.....please explain.

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A lot of it is actually a much later subdivision called Myers Park Manor. i.e. the surburban ranch houses around Freedom Park, all the way to Park Road.

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Nope that is not what happened with Myers Park.  A developer came in, stripped all the land for timber and took over a cotton field subdivided it into lots, and people built houses.  A number of them were Sears Catalog houses.  There wasn't a tree in sight and it looked like any new development that we see today.  It took more than 50 years for it to achieve the look that it has today as the trees grew to their current look.  The was the first major neighborhood to abandon the gridded street system. 

It should also be noted that much of what is called Myers Park really isn't Myers Park.

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I actually like the Sears catalog, Cratftman homes, though I'm sure they were considered the mobile home of that era ;) But have you seen many historic images of housing construction of that era? I admit I've been surprised myself - it was common even then that planned early subdivisions were on bare fields, most of the early suburbs of Atlanta were all built on bare fields.

But still, my criteria might be relative as well - I just think Myers Park is too attractive to be considered sprawl. But I do see your point nonetheless, & it is a very critical indictment on all southern cities. Mainly b/c each southern city generally has a small downtown & only a few neighborhoods that would be considered 'urban'.

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Charlotte had vast urban neighborhoods of single family homes that do not exist today. They were replaced by I-277, the Brookshire Freeway, I-77, and general urban renewal. As a kid I remember seeing a row of Dilworth type homes in First Ward on a trip to downtown on Central Avenue in 1974 when it still connected to N. Tryon.

There was a long row of executive type mansion homes on E.Trade Elizabeth in the area of the present Federal Reserve & Jail. The city tore down the last of these around 91-92 or so despite great efforts to save it.

It is these type of neighborhoods, which if existed today, that we would be using as a ruler to determine sprawl. Myers Park was the first of the sprawling neighborhoods, albeit one for millionares and quite well done, but it is our first example of real surburban sprawl as we attempt to define it today. Amost everything built in Charlotte after Myers Park followed the same example, except the construction, planning and materials used were cheapened to cut costs. (like almost every thing else we have today).

Myers Park was the first modern subdivision, and we are still building 21st century subdivisions with the same concepts in mind.

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John Nolen was given the task of designing a neighborhood on the Myers's 1,220-acre cotton plantation. The first houses were constructed in 1912. Here's a brief history from Charlotte-Mecklenburg Historic Landmark's Commission.

Post the link. I would have hoped that would have gotten through by now. We do not want to have to worry about copyright issues :angry:

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Charlotte had vast urban neighborhoods of single family homes that do not exist today.  They were replaced by I-277, the Brookshire Freeway, I-77, and general urban renewal. As a kid I remember seeing a row of Dilworth type homes in First Ward on a trip to downtown on Central Avenue in 1974 when it still connected to N. Tryon.   

There was a long row of executive type mansion homes on E.Trade Elizabeth  in the area of the present Federal Reserve & Jail.  The city tore down the last of these around 91-92 or so despite great efforts to save it. 

It is these type of neighborhoods, which if existed today, that we would be using as a ruler to determine sprawl.  Myers Park was the first of the sprawling neighborhoods, albeit one for millionares and quite well done, but it is our first example of real surburban sprawl as we attempt to define it today.  Amost everything built in Charlotte after Myers Park followed the same example, except the construction, planning and materials used were cheapened to cut costs.  (like almost every thing else we have today). 

Myers Park was the first modern subdivision, and we are still building 21st century subdivisions with the same concepts in mind.

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Nonetheless - despite the destruction caused by urban renewal up to the point of freeway construction, we're still not talking about a sizable area. Additionally, how much of these urban neighborhoods were filled with shacks & tenemant housing?

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i always wondered what happened with the East Trade mansions...

Honestly, as much as i wish a lot more of our historic structures remained downtown, the region and the city would be even less urban if some of those small structures weren't replaced with the high density projects that exist now downtown.

Dilworth, Myers Park and Eastover were the neighborhoods that the richer residents went to when their original corridor East Trade (East Ave) started to decline. Your point is very well taken, as this is some of the early examples of sprawling development patterns (although, this is consistent with a view of all american culture in the turner thesis). But now those mansions have survived much much longer because of the stability and health of the neighborhood.

Sprawl, to me, is development for short term gain, with little attention to long term health or connectivity. Myers Park may have many social negatives (segregation by wealth has been imo a major economic drain on american society), but the fact that it has remained healthy, keeps it outside of my idea of sprawl. The neighborhood has also absorbed some of the higher density developments, iwith many parts of queen's having condos and apartments that are more dense than existed downtown until recently.

Although i wish charlotte had a geometric grid for more than just a couple square miles, grid connectivity has more to do with having four or five alternative routes than with square blocks. Myers Park does not have square blocks, but has many alternatives and connecting streets that are much closer to a grid than anything in modern suburbia.

again, this is a very challenging point you are making, as you can really trace modern sprawl patterns to these early suburban developments... but for me, even though they may have spread some seeds for sprawl, they still aren't in that category.

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I would consider Dilworth to be the only neighborhood left that represents the old look of the city before Myer's Park. The streets are gridded, the lots are very small (much smaller than the standard issue 1/3 - 1/2th acre in Myers Park, and it is very walkable because it occupies such a small area because of the density. Remember it used to be much more connected to the downtown area.

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I would consider Dilworth to be the only neighborhood left that represents the old look of the city before Myer's Park.  The streets are gridded, the lots are very small (much smaller than the standard issue 1/3 - 1/2th acre in Myers Park, and it is very walkable because it occupies such a small area because of the density.  Remember it used to be much more connected to the downtown area.

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Elizabeth also has a gridded street pattern and most areas of the neighborhood have smaller lots. The neighborhood is also dotted with small multi-unit tenements and higher density development has been creeping into the areas along 7th street, Independence Park, and the edges of the neighborhood bordering Indepedence BLVD. Not to mention the massive overhaul underway around CPCC and Elizabeth Ave.

Although, I'm not sure if Elizabeth was actually constructed before Myers Park... I think the areas were built at roughly the same time.

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Elizabeth actually does pre-date Myers Park, and is on a grid (which was much more connected before Independence Blvd.)

Myers Park was built with the idea of being the most affluent community, and did draw many of Elizabeth's wealthier residents there.

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John Nolen was given the task of designing a neighborhood on the Myers's 1,220-acre cotton plantation.  The first houses were constructed in 1912.  Here's a brief history from Charlotte-Mecklenburg Historic Landmark's Commission.

Post the link.  I would have hoped that would have gotten through by now.  We do not want to have to worry about copyright issues    :angry: 

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The information isn't copywrited, but ok, here's the link.

History of Myers Park

A brief paraphrase of what was posted:

There are three eras of the history of MP. First is the neighborhood's creation on John Myers's 1,200-acre cotton plantation under the design guidance of John Nolen. This era lasted from 1911 to 1922. The second period lasted from 1922 until 1935. As Myers Park filled out, some of Nolen's concepts were abandoned, and the area was developed with fewer parks and more small houses on small lots than originally envisioned. In the third era, from 1935 to the present, E.C Griffith took control and finished Queens Road East, but without Mr. Nolan's median strip. The Griffith Co also devleoped Kings Drive placing houses along Sugar Creek. Mr. Nolan's plan called for <<get this>> a greenway/park along the creek.

Mr Nolen also included commercial development in MP. He planned a small neighborhood shopping center at the intersection of Queens and Providence roads. The site was within walking distance of most of the neighborhood, but was located on the farm to market roads on the neighborhood's periphery in order to avoid having farm wagons run through residential areas.

MP was designed for carriages, cars and, most importantly at first, streetcars. Like Dilworth, Myers Park was initially a "streetcar suburb" whose residents commuted to uptown on trolleys. In Nolen's plan, no resident was to be more than a two and an half blocks from a transit stop.

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