May / June Charlotte protests

[kermit]

Thoughtful and completely non-violent gathering at Bearden just before 6 tonight. I would guess it was around 250-300 people (sorry about the crappy photo). About a dozen CMPD officers on bikes (Helmets but no visible riot gear)  were  gathered down at Mint. 

Even the Jesus Saves guy was being respectful  of the purpose of  the protest.

I heard lots of helicopters today and assumed the worst, it turned out to just be local tv copters. It can be dangerous to not to see for yourself.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by kermit

[Madison Parkitect]

From what I've heard, the people that turned the protests into something closer to a riot were out-of-towners who all the regular Charlotte organizers didn't recognize. Seems to have been that way in a lot of cities too.

[tarwater]

Someone once told me the Jesus Saves guy is employed by the CMPD to disperse gatherings. The idea being that he is so annoying and loud people won't want to stay.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

32 minutes ago, tarwater said:

Someone once told me the Jesus Saves guy is employed by the CMPD to disperse gatherings. The idea being that he is so annoying and loud people won't want to stay.

I spy...Jesus saves  

[kermit]

Not there but I have watched a ton of live video from Trade street tonight. There has been no evidence (from the video) of protestors doing anything more violent than occupying space peacefully, but there has been a whole bunch of flash bangs and pepper spray from CMPD. This has included aiming gas canisters at the press.

Seems like Bullsh1t policing to me. Why are people not allowed to protest? WTF is happening?

Edited May 31, 2020 by kermit

[nicholas]

Raleigh and Fayetteville are being ravaged right now.  Setting fire to a CVS in downtown Raleigh and a historic building in downtown Fayetteville is not justice.  Assaulting police is not justice.  These aren't "protests," they're riots, and there is a reason why nothing changes following wrongful police deaths.  The people who actually support "justice for ___" are immediately overwhelmed by those who use it as an excuse to take their rage out on anything in their path.

Wrongful police deaths aren't the norm, and other than the piece of crap in Minnesota, they aren't out there hunting blacks 24/7 despite what the media wants you to believe.  There are NEVER, I repeat NEVER, any widespread protests from Black Lives Matter or groups like that whenever a black man kills another black man (which is what happens ~90% of the time).  Do they really care?  I legitimately wonder if black lives really matter to Black Lives Matter and its supporters.

Goodnight everyone.

Edited May 31, 2020 by nicholas

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

From what I've heard, the people that turned the protests into something closer to a riot were out-of-towners who all the regular Charlotte organizers didn't recognize. Seems to have been that way in a lot of cities too.

happening all over the country these are not organic protests they are well organized and take over of legitimate local protests that turn them into riots.  (Not so much here both in other cities check out Dallas, Nashville, downtown Charleston SC, and Raleigh as mentioned above)   Antifa 

[kermit]

13 hours ago, nicholas said:

a historic building in downtown Fayetteville is not justice. 

It was a slave market

13 hours ago, nicholas said:

Assaulting police is not justice. 

How do you know this happened? Lots of reports say the opposite. Why is your perspective more reliable?

13 hours ago, nicholas said:

Wrongful police deaths aren't the norm,

They are not, but it certainly happens in the US about 100 times as often as it does in any other developed nation. How do we fix that? Why hasn’t it been fixed yet?

13 hours ago, nicholas said:

These aren't "protests," they're riots, and there is a reason why nothing changes following wrongful police deaths.  The people who actually support "justice for ___" are immediately overwhelmed by those who use it as an excuse to take their rage out on anything in their path.

What other options to American's have to ask for justice to be served. Its clear that peaceful protesting doesn't work (see Colin Kaepernick), elections don't work since voter suppression and gerrymandering is now widespread and accepted by the courts, political influence doesn't work for the 99% who lack the resources to necessary to make major donations. Protestors are not stupid, they have been shown that there are no other options — what would you do in their place?

What other option is there for American's to make the privileged recognize there is a problem?

Edited May 31, 2020 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Just saw a white young thug try to break the windows at BofA Corp Center with another guy then  he ran across Tryon and was promptly taken down by a black guy who was shouting   "This is not about violence!  "  All live on WSOC  kudos to the black gentlemen who kept on the ground and I think police arrested him but not sure. 

white thug in green shirt here is a photo of him

Edited May 31, 2020 by KJHburg

[XRZ.ME]

22 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Just saw a white young thug try to break the windows at BofA Corp Center with another guy then  he ran across Tryon and was promptly taken down by a black guy who was shouting   "This is not about violence!  "  All live on WSOC  kudos to the black gentlemen who kept on the ground and I think police arrested him but not sure. 

white thug in green shirt here is a photo of him

 

I think this is the video for this.

[Nick2]

The FBI needs to start tracking the groups and organizations (proud boys, antifa, etc.) turning these protests into riots by making things violent. They're terrorists, plain and simple. Lable them as such and arrest them. The NSA/FBI has the resources to easily track them down.

[DCtransplant]

Just saw a white young thug try to break the windows at BofA Corp Center with another guy then  he ran across Tryon and was promptly taken down by a black guy who was shouting   "This is not about violence!  "  All live on WSOC  kudos to the black gentlemen who kept on the ground and I think police arrested him but not sure. 
white thug in green shirt here is a photo of him

Unfortunately the same guy threw a brick through the window at 204 North. Seems like a small number of people escalating what has otherwise been calm.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[XRZ.ME]

People might think your violence can achieve your purpose.

 

But there are lots of other people have different belief, and they might be more capable of causing violence than you do. 

Will all violence help your purpose?

[DH17]

14 minutes ago, DCtransplant said:

Unfortunately the same guy threw a brick through the window at 204 North. Seems like a small number of people escalating what has otherwise been calm.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Hope the police ID him and arrest him.

I support the message of the protests, but it seems to be getting hijacked by rabble-rousers across the country. Doesn't change my view on the major problems we have (police nation-wide and the criminal justice system badly need reform), just that the violence needs to stop as well.

[CLT2014]

7 hours ago, DCtransplant said:

Unfortunately the same guy threw a brick through the window at 204 North. Seems like a small number of people escalating what has otherwise been calm.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Neo Nazi groups like the Proud Boys have been at several of the North Carolina protests trying to stir up trouble and leave destruction. By the AM when the dust clears, they are gone.

[rancenc]

9 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

 

I think this is the video for this.

Only in America will protesters get a snack and proceed to steal merchandise in the name of "social justice"!

Edited May 31, 2020 by rancenc

[videtur quam contuor]

11 hours ago, kermit said:

It was a slave market

How do you know this happened? Lots of reports say the opposite. Why is your perspective more reliable?

They are not, but it certainly happens in the US about 100 times as often as it does in any other developed nation.

What other options to American's have to ask for justice to be served. Its clear that peaceful protesting doesn't work (see Colin Kaepernick), elections don't work since voter suppression and gerrymandering is now widespread and accepted by the courts, political influence doesn't work for people who lack the resources to make major donations. The protesting masses are not stupid, they have been shown that there are no other options.

What other option is there for American's to make the privileged recognize there is a problem?

It is my understanding that kermit was trying to express this thought:

F. Scott Fitzgerald Quotes. The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

 

[Durhamite]

10 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

People might think your violence can achieve your purpose.

 

But there are lots of other people have different belief, and they might be more capable of causing violence than you do. 

Will all violence help your purpose?

Is violence the answer?  No, but what would you do in a similar situation?  Take a knee like Kap?  Lol, get accused of disrespecting the flag, and then crickets.  The far majority of police are doing their job the right way, a dangerous profession indeed.   However, identifying and removing the overzealous "Barney Fife" type with a license to kill is critically important.    I've experienced it and this doesn't scrub the surface of incidents not reported or captured on camera.  

I don't think you'll see any other group engaging with frustrated (rioting)  Black people other than the police and military.  Why?  It's not wise and  dangerous and not as simple as prancing around the street with an AR across the shoulder complaining about ReOpening bars, gyms and restaurants.  

Until America really starts addressing the issue of economic disparity these things will continue to happen.  The media has crafted what a criminal looks like (Black Males), society has bought it hook line and sinker, and the Police subconsciously and consciously react to it.  

Never forget when a former co-worker (White guy being a smart ass) asked me if I think Black people commit more crime in America.  I guess trying to insinuate an obvious point  from his perspective.   I responded with I don't know, only God does.   But I do know this, they will be suspected more often, get convicted more often and more than likely end up in jail/prison.  After all, at the end of the day, the justice system is a business and every business needs a go-to product.  I told him to go and marinate on that for a minute.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Durhamite

[QCxpat]

Walkabout Uptown - Sunday morning May 31st

The Mini Harris Teeter at 5th Street & Poplar

Historic Dunhill Hotel at 6th Street and N. Tryon - broken glass door

Foundation for the Carolinas - N. Tryon Street - pepper spray on windows

Ivey's - 5th Street & N. Tryon

101 North Tryon Street - Northeastern University grad school

Bank of America Corporate Center - bomb resistant glass with  pepper spray

TradeWest / Historic Wachovia Tower - W. Trade St. and Church St.

The Cut Barbershop - large windows broken / missing

Hooters - W. Trade Street -  shattered glass door

Panera Bread - S. College St. and 3rd St.

Fleming Wine Bar - smashed window

Ruth's Chris - S. Tryon Street & 3rd St. - pepper spray

The Omni Hotel on E. Trade Street -  pepper spray

CATS Bus shelter on E. Trade St. in front of Bank of America Corporate Center - shattered glass partition

The King's Kitchen - W. Trade Street at Church Street - restaurant serves free "to go" meals to the needy on sidewalk weekly

Grand Bohemian Hotel - W. Trade St. and S. Church St. - shattered glass door

Sign at The Aloft Hotel - S. College St. and E. 4th Street

Gandhi Park - E. Trade Street & Alexander St.

The Queen City - Standing Tall - Sunday morning 05/31/2020

 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by QCxpat

[joenc]

This unrest has been relatively mild so far by historical standards (compared with the 60s/70s), but if it gets worse will we lose a lot of the gains we've made in the last 10-20 years in America's cities?

[nicholas]

11 hours ago, kermit said:

It was a slave market

Sort of.  Some slave trading unfortunately did take place at Market House, but the building's function mainly seemed to revolve around settling debts and estates.

"Newspaper advertisements list slave sales at the Market House or Town House, as it was also known, mostly in conjunction with the settlement of estates."

"...these were public buildings where estates and debts were settled. Slave auctions were also held at private businesses, the courthouse and elsewhere."

https://www.fayobserver.com/article/20160226/News/302269875

11 hours ago, kermit said:

How do you know this happened? Lots of reports say the opposite. Why is your perspective more reliable?

Come on man.  Per Raleigh Chief of Police Cassandra Deck-Brown (who is black by the way):

5 officers were taken to the hospital following last night's protests.

"My officers got hit with stones last night," she said.

"We have brain bruise, we have broken teeth and we have someone with a broken jaw," she said. "I will not put an officer in arms way to protect an officer," Raleigh Police Chief Cassandra Deck-Brown said.

https://www.wral.com/clean-up-begins-after-night-of-looting-fires-and-vandalism-in-raleigh-fayetteville/19122732/

https://abc11.com/live-raleigh-officials-give-update-on-saturdays-protest/6222644/

Per CMPD (whose Chief of Police is also black):

CMPD says protesters continued to throw rocks at their Metro Division Office, breaking several windows. A WBTV reporter says he saw pepper balls and flash bangs fired. He also reported that he saw protesters throwing rocks and bottles.

Police tweeted that several protesters started to throw rocks and objects at officers as they continued to facilitate protesters’ right to demonstrate. Police also tweeted that several protesters had damaged police cruisers and continued to throw rocks at officers and the Metro Division office.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/05/29/hundreds-gather-charlotte-protest-against-death-george-floyd/

11 hours ago, kermit said:

They are not, but it certainly happens in the US about 100 times as often as it does in any other developed nation.

It is sad that this is the case.  Police officers are almost always in the wrong in these cases (even if the person was actually breaking a law, the response was usually far too extreme), and I think that the consequences they face are not harsh enough to dissuade others officers from doing the same thing.

However....statistically, blacks for some reason commit a disproportionate amount of crime (especially violent crime), and law enforcement is well aware of this.  This leads to a deepening viscous cycle of mistrust on both sides, and personally I think both communities really need to do some soul-searching to address the issues inside their respective communities, before effective progress can be made between the black and law enforcement communities.

11 hours ago, kermit said:

What other options to American's have to ask for justice to be served. Its clear that peaceful protesting doesn't work (see Colin Kaepernick), elections don't work since voter suppression and gerrymandering is now widespread and accepted by the courts, political influence doesn't work for people who lack the resources to make major donations. The protesting masses are not stupid, they have been shown that there are no other options.

Is this still about police brutality, or...what exactly are we even protesting at this point?  None of us have control of the circumstances that we were born into, but we ALL have opportunities to succeed if we are willing to work for it.  Some have a bumpier road and have to work harder than others, and that is just a fact.  Why have Asian Americans, who initially faced widespread discrimination (though admittedly not to the level that blacks used to face) when they came to America to work unskilled jobs, been able to establish themselves as the most educated and highest-earning racial group in America?

11 hours ago, kermit said:

What other option is there for American's to make the privileged recognize there is a problem?

Allowing your protests to be overrun by rioters and looters is a surefire way to make sure that the "privileged" do not listen to you.  Also, protesters need to show Americans that black lives truly matter, and not just when a white person is involved.  2016 FBI figures show that roughly 8.5% of black homicides were by whites, whereas roughly 90% were by blacks, yet I can't think of a single protest following the killing of black person by another black person.  It only happens when a white person is involved.

[KJHburg]

thanks for the photos @QCxpat   a protest is fine Rioting and property destruction is not right EVER.   These are locally based businesses and most insurance policies do not cover civil unrest.   One of these businesses damaged helps homeless and people down on their luck with jobs and yet now he will have to spend money to replace these windows.   Property destruction is property destruction no matter what the reason for purposely doing it.  How about if someone decided to go down a street in Dilworth and bust out everyone's windows?   Is that okay just homeowners? 

Wanton destruction has to stop as well as killing which by the way we  had 130 murders last year and a couple of people caught in the crossfire.  No riots over that I see.  

[kermit]

First ward protest this afternoon was well attended and appeared to be without conflict. Police presence appeared to be light. A quick trip down college and Tryon showed damage, but it was far less, and less concentrated than I had expected. The sporadic nature of the damage makes it look like is a very small portion of the crowd that are involved in it.

I did see 8-10 National Guard vehicles in two different groups (one of College, one on Davidson).  Kinda surprised, and again, if CMPD can’t handle this then the RNC is going to be very ugly.

 

 

[KJHburg]

as with the DNC police and law enforcement come in from all over the country to supplement the local police force including secret service, FBI etc.  to help with the RNC.  That is what the $50 Million security grant pays for. 

[TCLT]

58 minutes ago, nicholas said:

statistically, blacks for some reason commit a disproportionate amount of crime (especially violent crime)

Blacks are disproportionately arrested for, and convicted of, crime (especially violent crime). FTFY.

If you target a specific group for arrest and incarceration the statistics are going to show that they're disproportionately arrested and incarcerated. Those statistics don't really tell us anything about actual crime rates. For example actual rates of drug use and drug dealing are largely the same across all demographics, but again blacks are disproportionately arrested and incarcerated for it.

1 hour ago, nicholas said:

2016 FBI figures show that roughly 8.5% of black homicides were by whites, whereas roughly 90% were by blacks, yet I can't think of a single protest following the killing of black person by another black person. 

Crime is mostly based on proximity and opportunity. Since blacks are still largely segregated it isn't surprising that most crime against black people is committed by other black people. Keep in mind too that just because you "can't think of a single protest" doesn't mean they don't exist, and that was from only a minute of research. What an obnoxiously arrogant and ignorant thing to say. And there's also a significant difference between normal crime and institutionalized discrimination, harassment, and murder by members of law enforcement who have an enormous amount of power over the people and communities they police.

And comparing other ethnic groups to black people in America shows a huge lack of understanding of the absolutely horrendous history (and present) this country has with its treatment of blacks.