May / June Charlotte protests

[kermit]

1 hour ago, nicholas said:

@kermit I'm tired of arguing with you, so I will simply respond to "show me a better way":

...

This is my better way, what is yours?

For the most part I agree with you on major structural issues that need to change. However you didn't say how we get to a political place where changes like these can start to happen. We have been repeatedly shown that peaceful protest won’t do it, neither will voting (in a country where huge amounts of political energy are expended on voter suppression and almost none is used to address inequality). What else can be done to get this change started? Until we (as a society) has an answer the protests are going to always be with us.

Just so my response isn’t too abstract I’ll add: until the system changes, every taxpayer is paying for (and thus encouraging) the police to kill and brutalize people. Until change happens, that blood is on our hands.

Edited June 1, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

and speaking of looting:

 

 

[rancenc]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

For the most part I agree with you on major structural issues that need to change. However you didn't say how we get to a political place where changes like these can start to happen. We have been repeatedly shown that peaceful protest won’t do it, neither will voting (in a country where huge amounts of political energy are expended on voter suppression and almost none is used to address inequality). What else can be done to get this change started? Until we (as a society) has an answer the protests are going to always be with us.

Just so my response isn’t too abstract I’ll add: until the system changes, every taxpayer is paying for (and thus encouraging) the police to kill and brutalize people. Until change happens, that blood is on our hands.

Very dramatic statement closing out your post.  Why don't we just do away with publicly financed policing and contract it out!   Pay as you need 'em!!

Edited June 1, 2020 by rancenc

[kermit]

7 hours ago, rancenc said:

Very dramatic statement closing out your post.  Why don't we just do away with publicly financed policing and contract it out!   Pay as you need 'em!!

Is the dramatic statement incorrect?

At the moment I am only concerned about the accountability of policing. Since we are all paying for the police they are obligated to be accountable to us (if we request it). The millions of people that have protested across the nation over the past week show that huge numbers of us don't feel like that accountability is there at their own local levels. It is on us to fix that -- the problem isn't going to fix itself.

Edited June 2, 2020 by kermit

[rancenc]

Kermit apparently you do not have a grasp or understanding of public sector organization in this country  First and foremost, the overwhelming majority of police agencies are at the microlevel of the US government structure; that is the local level.  So in the cast of Minneapolis, the police department as a municipal organization  is ultimately accountable to the 13 member city council (see below) and the mayor.  They in turn are elected by the citizenry of that city.  Apparently there is also a Office of Police Conduct Review staff by citizens of Minneapolis.  

That is it in a nutshell since I am not going into the intricacies of municipal structure of that city.  If we are unable to provide trained and competent law enforcement at this level in a left of center political establishment such as Minneapolis then we have some profound structural flaws that might be at the point of no return!!

[videtur quam contuor]

https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/28/police-really-put-american-lives-ahead-theyd-hurt-fewer-people/

This post includes a large portion of my thinking. Note the origin.

[kermit]

6 hours ago, rancenc said:

Kermit apparently you do not have a grasp or understanding of public sector organization in this country 

When did I say that the police were not local government institutions? It certainly was not my intention to suggest otherwise.

Having said that, the US Justice Department has an important backstop oversight role in police department accountability. The Barr / Sessions justice department have made it clear they do not consider police brutality to be a priority.

Edited June 2, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

A Charlotte institution making themselves clear on where they stand:

 

 

[JRNYP2C]

On 5/30/2020 at 11:56 PM, KJHburg said:

Just saw a white young thug try to break the windows at BofA Corp Center with another guy then  he ran across Tryon and was promptly taken down by a black guy who was shouting   "This is not about violence!  "  All live on WSOC  kudos to the black gentlemen who kept on the ground and I think police arrested him but not sure. 

white thug in green shirt here is a photo of him

I saw this "individual's" image on someones Facebook Live stream - it was a frozen picture.  They were saying that the peaceful protestors were trying to stop him.  They basically kept him from breaking a window and then chased him across the street to the front of Independence Center and I read that he was held down until police were able to show up.  On WSOC, yesterday - they showed him just as he was, as they said, tackled and then kicked and beaten.  They froze the image right before his "beating" took place.  The anchor said that they were not going to show any of the additional footage as it was graphic.  WTH?  Why not show it?  An out of town antagonist comes to Charlotte - just as in years past - and is stoking the proverbial fires.  SHOW THIS $HIT ON TV!  It very may well keep other antagonists from outside of the city and state to think twice about destroying our city.  HE is part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Unfortunately, we have been through this situation before, and I hope against hope that we learned lessons on how to have a civil discourse as long as people can protest - as it is their right.  During the day, I personally know of at least two people that were in 1st Ward Park that protested peacefully during the day.  It is those that are hiding under the dark of night that turn things evil.

 

[kermit]

Walked with the Freedom Park / Myers Park protest from the park up to Queens and Selwyn. It was peaceful well organized and led. Its route was also very effective in that it brought the message to some neighborhoods who don't usually confront protest,   I hope more marches happen in the burbs it felt like a very effective way to communicate. Everyone involved in the march was communicating a consistent message and a very broad range of people were marching, including quite a few kids, I would guess 1,500-2,000 people total. It was a very emotional experience. 

I was there from just after 6 until about 7:45. CMPD presence was light, roughly 18 bike cops and 4-5 cars at either end of the march. No visible sign of riot gear or dozens of cops in reserve nearby. Nearly everyone (other than CMPD) wore masks.  Lots of people who lived on the street came out to participate / watch, including the lady sitting in the background of the last photo with her poodle.

I did not see Pat McCrory out with his fist up. Back in his mayoral days he would have been there.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

Quote

“Are you a communist?"
"No I am an anti-fascist"
"For a long time?"
"Since I have understood fascism.”

― Ernest Hemingway, For Whom the Bell Tolls

what I wouldn't give to have a couple drinks with Ernest about now.

 

vs. Birmingham 1963. Why haven't we moved forward at all?

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by kermit

[XRZ.ME]

Looks like tonight is the first night it didn't turn into violence after 12AM.

Queen city Nerve did a good job live streaming the event.


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[Yeahdoug]

12 hours ago, JRNYP2C said:

I saw this "individual's" image on someones Facebook Live stream - it was a frozen picture.  They were saying that the peaceful protestors were trying to stop him.  They basically kept him from breaking a window and then chased him across the street to the front of Independence Center and I read that he was held down until police were able to show up.  On WSOC, yesterday - they showed him just as he was, as they said, tackled and then kicked and beaten.  They froze the image right before his "beating" took place.  The anchor said that they were not going to show any of the additional footage as it was graphic.  WTH?  Why not show it?  An out of town antagonist comes to Charlotte - just as in years past - and is stoking the proverbial fires.  SHOW THIS $HIT ON TV!  It very may well keep other antagonists from outside of the city and state to think twice about destroying our city.  HE is part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Unfortunately, we have been through this situation before, and I hope against hope that we learned lessons on how to have a civil discourse as long as people can protest - as it is their right.  During the day, I personally know of at least two people that were in 1st Ward Park that protested peacefully during the day.  It is those that are hiding under the dark of night that turn things evil.

 

He may have taken a few kicks and a punch when they tackle him and he’s fighting back, but it’s not bad. It was definitely not graphic lol. Not like they keep beating him or anything once they subdue him. Apparently that guy was just running around trying to break windows in multiple spots and was there to just cause trouble. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Yeahdoug

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

The Illuminati will not let punk ass kids throw stuff at their windows.  Need more protesters standing up against the looters.  

Edited June 2, 2020 by CharlotteWkndBuzz
BOA mural.

[kermit]

At the Government center / NAACP March. I was there from the start of the march around 5 until around 7. These protests are getting bigger. Several thousand people here (5,000+?). The movement is not going to go away.

The second of last photo is from Trade and College (the street was full of protestors and many had already made it to CMPD). In the background is 4th street full of people marching up to Tryon to follow us -- there were many behind them. (sorry I am such a crappy photographer).

everything  is peaceful except for the gezzus saves guy who was busy shattering the silence while 5,000 people were kneeling. I think he means well, but he can really rub people the wrong way around protests with his opportunism.

"This is what democracy looks like!"

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

To be fair to CMPD, I have been to four marches so far (but I have left by 9pm). Every officer I have seen has been fair, competent and pleasant (although I am a middle age white guy with grey hair so keep my perspective in mind). All officers I have seen have been wearing their body cameras, although I do not know if they were on (this was a problem in Louisville on Saturday). I was not close enough to the officers in riot gear to see if they had cameras. In general I think CMPD have done a good job of managing the marches I have attended and looking out for marcher safety (e.g. preventing someone driving into the crowd) while I have been there. There was one exception that I personally saw, the riot police who were blocking the street on Sunday night at BB&T filed were posed to be threatening, despite facing a completely peaceful march -- there was absolutely no reason for them to create that confrontation.  I was not there on Friday or Saturday, but the live stream from QC Nerve did suggest that CMPD was pepper-balling the crowd without provocation (but I was not there and a live stream can only show so much). I would like to hear about what the plan is to review body camera footage before CMPD started shooting chemical agents at protestors on Friday and Saturday. In addition, the exchange between Braxton Winston and the acting chief last night (re Braxton's arrest on Friday) was pretty tone deaf on Jenning's part (IMO). I certainly agree that people vandalizing should be arrested, but they need to find a way to do that that does not victimize the vast majority of protestors or end the protest.

"I don't see no riot here. Why are you in riot gear?"

Anyway, just before tonight's peaceful march was this CMPD officer writing something with a sharpie on these guy's sign -- it was a nice moment of cooperation:

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

Finally, I'll call out our autodependence as anti-democratic bullsh1t and a low-key mechanism of social control.  The need to drive and park severely limits protest attendance.

#FreedomMachineMyAss

[my wife and daughter would like to attend many of these marches but they are not willing to bike as far as I am]

EDIT: From today's (6/3) Southpark march

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by kermit

[CLT2014]

It is nice to see human beings in Uptown again after weeks of it being soulless buildings and empty sidewalks. Uptown looks alive.

Edited June 2, 2020 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

I scrolled through the wikipedia page for Civil Disturbances in US History. It is depressing how many have been triggered by racial injustice. This includes against Filipinos, Chinese, Greeks, Mexicans, and so many more. Humans have this depressing urge to dominate their fellows, it seems. 

From 1870's to 1920's labor disturbances were a primary source of these issues, with racial ones still occurring. The greatest riots were labor based. Labor and strike unrest continued into the 1930s but diminished by 1940. From the 1940's to 1950's there were a smaller number of serious civil disturbances (again, according to wiki). The mid 1960's to early 1970's saw a new phenomenon, the political demonstration and police riot. Vietnam protests and political turmoil became the new grievance flashpoint. Unprepared police leadership and membership contributed to the televised  mayhem. Race still mattered elsewhere.

The 1980's were comparatively quiet. The 1990's had the Rodney King affair and knock on events and the WTO disturbances in Seattle. The 2000's were localized disturbances. The 2010's had Occupy Wall Street and Unite the Right in Charlottesville as "political" events that denied control. A series of protests about police killings also completed the story.

Which brings us here. So far, the broad scope of the current protests, including in Europe, make this a new style of unrest. Race, Police injustice, force propped authority*, political powder, failure of leadership, all contribute to our situation today.

* these three words make up a small  part of a famous short statement by a participant in perhaps the most historically important civil disturbance in U. S. history. A shiny dime to whomever identifies the event.

[XRZ.ME]

Looks like there is a pattern that day time protests are very peaceful. 

But night time, especially late night ones are not so good. 

[kermit]

Nm

Edited June 3, 2020 by kermit

[TCLT]

Looks like there is a pattern that day time protests are very peaceful. 
But night time, especially late night ones are not so good. 

The nighttime escalation has been coming from those dressed in blue...

https://mobile.twitter.com/katie_levans/status/1268004903257100302?s=12

[XRZ.ME]

The nighttime escalation has been coming from those dressed in blue...

https://mobile.twitter.com/katie_levans/status/1268004903257100302?s=12

I saw today's tweets and live stream from queen city nerve too. Tonight CMPD is more aggressive compared with past few nights.


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[kermit]

Yup. this is fascist bullsh1t.

CMPD needs new leadership now. The is an unlawful act intended to discourage people from exercising their right to peaceably assemble in the future. We should not be paying for CMPD to limit our constitutional rights and injure Charlotte residents.

FIRE ACTING CHEF JENNINGS NOW!

I am writing mayor Lyles and my council reps NOW

Mayor Lyles: [email protected]

Mayor pro tem: [email protected]

At large member: [email protected]

At large member: [email protected]

At large member: [email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Find your district rep here https://mcmap.org/geoportal/

 

Email the mayor, mayor pro tem and the three at large reps if you think this is wrong

The link to the video is here:

https://twitter.com/queencitynerve/status/1267993351774711811?s=20

I am so tired of being pissed off

 

A sample email follows (but you can do better than this, it was dashed-off in anger while drinking my third beer)

As a Charlotte resident for more than XX years I have never found myself to be more uncomfortable with the current leadership of the CMPD than I am at this moment. I have attended four local protests over the past week and found CMPD officers to be considerate, helpful and professional. However this video from Queen City Nerve https://twitter.com/queencitynerve/status/1267993351774711811?s=20 along with similar accounts from Saturday night's protest leave me deeply concerned about CMPD acting unilaterally and intentionally to prevent Charlotte residents from exercising their right to peaceably assemble. While I understand that a video of these events is unlikely to show exactly what lead up to the use of chemical weapons on Charlotte residents, I am extremely troubled that this action by the CMPD appears to be completely unjustified and an overreaction to the events of the night.  

 

Until an explanation of these events is provided (and documented with body cam footage) I have absolutely no confidence in the current CMPD leadership. Needless to say I will be unable to support the reelection of any city leadership in the absence of either this reassurance or a significant change in CMPD leadership.

 

Sincerly,

kermit

Here is what the ACLU says about what happens if police issue an order to disperse (emphasis added). The QCN video did not indicate that CMPD delivered this order to protestors.

• Shutting down a protest through a dispersal order must be law enforcement’s last resort. Police may not break up a gathering unless there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, interference with traffic, or other immediate threat to public safety.
• If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path.
• Individuals must receive clear and detailed notice of a dispersal order, including how much time they have to disperse, the consequences of failing to disperse, and what clear exit route they can follow, before they may be arrested or charged with any crime.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/

Edit: many people on twitter confirming that CMPD never issued a dispersal order before deploying chemical weapons on residents. CMPD disputes this — the QCN footage suggests CMPD is lying. They need to show us their body cam footage.

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

This is Charlotte finally being world class:

no lets all work to get a police force that serves all its citizens so we can continue to grow.