Foundry Park - CoStar HQ

[Shakman]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Jesus... 

"The Good Lord giveth... and the Good Lord taketh..."

Boy this is a gut punch... just when we thought RVA was about to walk through the threshold to enter into the foyer of the "big time".

...but the Good Lord knows what's best. 

Although the hot air get let out of my head (thank God I'm already home from work), our skyline is growing.    

Edited December 20, 2021 by Shakman

[whw53]

20 minutes ago, vdogg said:

Most of our *towers* here in Norfolk are around the 300 ft range. Trust me when I tell you our forum would be ecstatic about getting a 425 ft tower downtown. While not as grand as originally thought to be (Whatever is anymore? Seems to be a growing trend among developers), this is still a very major development in every aspect and will make a significant impact on Richmond. It's also one more piece of the puzzle. More developable land off the table>>scarcity>>higher land value>>taller buildings.

 

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

Thanks for checking.  While a let down, this tower will still be a great addition to our potentially shortening skyline and better than our initial expectations.

Yes i think these are the perspectives we need to keep here. the rendering is a beauty and it will look great on the river. and will connect more people with downtown. The height has changed not the number of jobs - 2000! This has been a good year for the Canal Walk - we will have the new tallest privately built office tower in the city on one side and on the other we will have a 300 or 400 units spread across  2 buildings and one of these will be over 10 stories. (sorry forgot the stats on the new Locks project)

A year and half ago i drove home from a weekend spent camping upstream to the Rite Aid on Broad still smoldering and the carcass of a bombed out bus on my street. I thought we were going to be set back 10 years - not at all. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by whw53

[I miss RVA]

20 minutes ago, whw53 said:

 

Yes i think these are the perspectives we need to keep here. the rendering is a beauty and it will look great on the river. and will connect more people with downtown. The height has changed not the number of jobs - 2000! This has been a good year for the Canal Walk - we will have the new tallest privately built office tower in the city on one side and on the other we will have a 300 or 400 units spread across  2 buildings and one of these will be over 10 stories. (sorry forgot the stats on the new Locks project)

A year and half ago i drove home from a weekend spent camping upstream to the Rite Aid on Broad still smoldering and the carcass of a bombed out bus on my street. I thought we were going to be set back 10 years - not at all. 

1.) Jobs - this is true! And recall, the RTD was reporting 2,000 new jobs that could become 3,000 down the road. That's 1,000 more jobs on top of the 2K that will be coming with this building.

Idk - I really do love the design, placement, etc., of this new tower. And that they're integrating a smaller building and the tower AND their current building -- it makes a bold statement on the riverfront and serves as a tremendous anchor that can only serve to be a catalyst for MORE developent.

2.) new apartments on the canal -- Locks 7 (or 8 - I've not been able to keep all of this straight in my head) will be 13 stories tall. The other/companion building across the canal will be 7 stories.

It's tough to have some of our aspirations shattered. Thing is, I'm actually more bummed by Rivers Edge II getting yanked off the table and not knowing WHAT will get built there than I am that the CoStar tower will be 425, sted 510. I'm disappointed - but not nearly as gut-punched as I am about Rivers Edge II - because at least for now, there are THREE previously announced high rise residential buildings that are completely off the table now. (Being shortened to six stories is the same to me as it being off the table - because the high rise isn't getting built).

It does feel like we're getting "short changed" with CoStar - but we really aren't. This tower is going to be EPIC - and all of our tears will dry up the minute those boom cranes sprout from the riverfront. I'm in love with this new building and can't wait to see it dominate the riverfront skyline -- which it will do!

PLUS - for the better part of this past year, weren't we all pretty much resigned to the fact that the only high rise development forthcoming across RVA in the near future likely would be residential? This is cake AND frosting (and a bowl of ice cream with whipped cream AND chocolate sprinkles) getting the CoStar HQ2 here. I've been imagining how this tower will look -- and how it will play off against Dominion across the expressway and the Fed building next door.

AND - it's looking highly likely that we'll see cranes rising from multiple downtown locations - just like last year and this past year. If Pinecrest breaks ground next month (or two) - and the Admiral breaks ground by spring - and if CoStar gets underway by the middle of this year - imagine seeing three sets of cranes over downtown by Q4 of next year.

AND - let's not forget Block D. If the P.S. building is in the process of being razed and hauled away, how long afterwards would we possibly see ground broken?

Bakery Lofts might get underway during 2022 (I'm betting that it will!)...  And with the city hammering out the City Center SAP - that's a freshly plowed field just WAITING to be planted. I'm actually working up a few thoughts on that topic -- complete with pictures!!! -- that I'll post over on the City Center thread.

Edited December 20, 2021 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

18 minutes ago, Shakman said:

but the Good Lord knows what's best.  Although the hot air get let out of my head (thank God I'm already home from work), our skyline is growing.    

So are the number of porta potties! That's always a good thing when it comes to construction! 

[Wahoo 07]

While I am just as disappointed as everyone else regarding the height, this is still a great project.  It's going to transform the skyline and push it west another block.  This has the potential to serve as the impetus for lots of development in Monroe Ward and other vacant downtown lots (be nice to see something like the canceled Centennial Tower get built (that was a gut punch) and maybe City Center with be revived).  This is a lot more tax revenue for the city and thousands of new potential customers to patronize downtown businesses and rent apartments.  Coupled with Locks 7 and 8, the Canal Walk is becoming a true 24 hour place that is unrecognizable from 20 years ago. 

A significant company is making a major investment in Richmond!  This is nothing but a major victory for the City.  I'm excited to see it take shape.

 

[DowntownCoruscant]

Although hitting 500 would’ve been very cool, I can live with this. But there should be a moratorium on the above sea level thing because that’s junk.

Edited December 20, 2021 by DowntownCoruscant

[Downtowner]

Ok with this being 425 now. We can’t knock down the Monroe building now. Our city will look like an absolute joke if they knock it down. I’m strongly against it as our new tallest will go from 449 feet to 425. If they knock it down it must not be shorter than the 449 feet the Monroe building is. The only way I will accept it is if they build taller or same exact height as the Monroe building. This place is an absolute joke. If they knock that down for a  midget tower of 200 feet which I don’t even consider a tower nor do I consider anything a tower from 300 feet to 499 feet. It’s laughable people call these buildings in Richmond. They aren’t even a tower they are a clown version of a tower. I’m so disgusted at costar and Everyone who wrote an article an quoted it as 510 when it’s obviously not going to be 510 like everything else around here. I give up on Richmond getting a 500 plus footer I’m done. Even if we have one that gets proposed I won’t believe it to be 500 foot plus until the day it is completely finished. I’m tired of being let down. Literally the worst State in the country for high rise construction. When states and cities like Des Moines   Iowa or Omaha Nebraska have a tower that’s taller than anything Richmond has ever had even proposal wise it burns me up.  I’m tired of being let down. The city where towers go to die is what I call this place like Cleveland with sports where careers go to die. 

[wrldcoupe4]

Still a great project all around. 

[blopp1234]

I don’t think we would be anywhere close to as disappointed if 425 was the only number that was reported. It will still be a quality project that will bring 2,000 jobs downtown and will hopefully kick off more development around the CBD and Monroe ward. I also agree with I miss RVA that the proposed tower is absolutely stunning, just not as tall as we would hope. Don’t be too discouraged by this, as other companies may see this and follow Costars lead, especially northern Virginia based companies. 
Also, I wouldn’t be as concerned about the rivers edge site in Manchester as there aren’t a lot of sites left in the city that have those kinds of views. Worst comes to worse, we get a 6-8 story building, which to be honest, I don’t get why people are so disappointed about, they are solid density and have enough residents to fuel an active street scape. That being said, I don’t think we see anything less than 10 stories at this site, due to the location and how much this site will probably fetch on the market. Don’t be too discouraged y’all, Richmond is still growing and I doubt that no new 10+ story buildings get announced in Manchester before spring.

[eandslee]

Just so you know, the paragraph in the RBS article regarding this project’s height was changed to read the following:

At 425 feet tall and 510 feet above sea level, CoStar’s new building would be the highest in Richmond, and may soon be the tallest. That title is currently held by the James Monroe Building which is 449 feet tall, however the state-owned building may soon be demolished as Virginia’s Department of General Services is planning to replace it. The tallest building in Virginia currently is the Westin Virginia Beach Town Center, which per high-rise database SkyscraperPage reaches 508 feet.

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Fully agreed. I don't see why height needs to be so readily sacrificed. Why can't we have both? 

@blopp1234-- that's a sweet looking development and I'd love to see that downtown (or anywhere in the central city, tbh). Now you mention this developing being right along the highway? How close? Southbound I-95 - and the southbound offramp (by extension since the highway curves slightly to the east heading toward the James River Bridge) DIRECTLY ABUT the Monroe Tower parking deck - with no more than a couple of feet clearance between the highway retaining wall and the physical structure of the parking deck - with the skyscraper towering directly overhead. Literally it's the "back side" of the complex that's built directly up against the highway.

Is that the case in this Charlotte development?

No we have don't have a building that close to a freeway like the James Monroe Bldg.   By the way I think it makes your city look big as you drive across the James River and pass right by the side of that tower.   For what it is worth I hope the building stays and is renovated or whatever needs to be done.  I can't believe it would be cheaper to tear down a building like that and replace all that office space.  

[I miss RVA]

4 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

No we have don't have a building that close to a freeway like the James Monroe Bldg.   By the way I think it makes your city look big as you drive across the James River and pass right by the side of that tower.   For what it is worth I hope the building stays and is renovated or whatever needs to be done.  I can't believe it would be cheaper to tear down a building like that and replace all that office space.  

AMEN!!! From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

I don’t think we would be anywhere close to as disappointed if 425 was the only number that was reported. It will still be a quality project that will bring 2,000 jobs downtown and will hopefully kick off more development around the CBD and Monroe ward. I also agree with I miss RVA that the proposed tower is absolutely stunning, just not as tall as we would hope. Don’t be too discouraged by this, as other companies may see this and follow Costars lead, especially northern Virginia based companies. 
Also, I wouldn’t be as concerned about the rivers edge site in Manchester as there aren’t a lot of sites left in the city that have those kinds of views. Worst comes to worse, we get a 6-8 story building, which to be honest, I don’t get why people are so disappointed about, they are solid density and have enough residents to fuel an active street scape. That being said, I don’t think we see anything less than 10 stories at this site, due to the location and how much this site will probably fetch on the market. Don’t be too discouraged y’all, Richmond is still growing and I doubt that no new 10+ story buildings get announced in Manchester before spring.

1a.) 6  to 8 story buildings/why disappointed: Because that's pretty much ALL we seem to be getting in the near term (I know there have been some exceptions - but right now we've seen THREE high rise buildings taken OFF the table, one for good and the other two TBD). 

1b.) Density and active streetscape: Active streetscape is wonderful, all well and good - but that's only one component of making a dynamic city. Part of it is also just sheer raw numbers. Bigger buildings typically hold larger numbers of people. Can a 6 or 8-story building hold as many people as a 15-story building can, if both have the same footprint? Personally, I'd honestly love to see RVA hit that magic 340,000 population figure by 2037 that city planners were talking about while putting the Richmond 300 Plan together. My math may be off, but 2037 is in what's about to be a mere 15 years from now, folks. And we're gonna have to do a LOT better than Mayor Stoney's "10 new people moving to RVA per day" to hit that figure between now and then. We'll need more like 21 people per day for the next 15 years. CoStar bringing 2,000 -- and maybe ultimately 3,000 -- new jobs will be a huge help. And like we've discussed here, hopefully CoStar's big downtown splash (tower, jobs and people) will be the catalyst for a LOT more corporate relos and more big development in the city. As Bruce said - "anyone want to build apartment buildings?" A sea of 6, 7 or 8 story buildings won't be enough - hopefully by a LONG shot. 

1c.) Density and active streetscape (part 2): The flip side to the streetscape and dynamic city discussion is the visual element. A great mix of taller buildings and varying sized buildings - comfortably crowded together (say in Manchester or Monroe Ward, etc.) gives the city ALL THE MORE UMPH of that urban vibe and feel. Imagine how muscular RVA will look as a city with a plethora of buildings of all shapes and sizes - and PLENTY OF THEM TALL -- downtown... Monroe Ward... the riverfront... in Manchester... among other places... AND - when you go into those sections of town, you're met with that fantastic, vibrant, non-stop activity of a great, lively streetscape and super tight, dense urban footprint. Me personally, that street vibe carries much more weight if I can see some 'scrapers in the mix! Not just a bunch of buildings of similar height (5, 6, 7, 8 stories) - but all sizes - low... midrise... highrise... skyscraper... give me all of them! That level of urban intensity just can't be beat! It's the best vibe in the world.

Imagine RVA with THAT kind of urban vibe! WOWWWWWWWWWWW!! 

2.) 10-plus story buildings rising in Manchester: From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! I hope and pray you're right!

Edited December 21, 2021 by I miss RVA

[KJHburg]

now who is this person the CEO of Costar?   ""At Friday's press conference, Andy Florance cited the 510 feet figure and called it the tallest in the state, which turns out isn't the case. ""  

I just don't understand why Costar did not correct this as soon as they saw it.   No one anywhere quotes the height of a building with the elevation of the land underneath.  Our downtown area in Charlotte  is about 700 feet should we add that to our  building heights and claim we have multiple  1000 footers in Charlotte? 

 The new jobs are great for your city!   But now start a thread called Save James Monroe Bldg.  I thought some of y'all figured out that even with the elevation and this 425 Foot tall building it was still not 510 feet.   I will tell this this has been the hottest topic on any UP site in the last week.  

[Downtowner]

34 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

now who is this person the CEO of Costar?   ""At Friday's press conference, Andy Florance cited the 510 feet figure and called it the tallest in the state, which turns out isn't the case. ""  

I just don't understand why Costar did not correct this as soon as they saw it.   No one anywhere quotes the height of a building with the elevation of the land underneath.  Our downtown area in Charlotte  is about 700 feet should we add that to our  building heights and claim we have multiple  1000 footers in Charlotte? 

 The new jobs are great for your city!   But now start a thread called Save James Monroe Bldg.  I thought some of y'all figured out that even with the elevation and this 425 Foot tall building it was still not 510 feet.   I will tell this this has been the hottest topic on any UP site in the last week.  

Yes the above sea level height is crap absolute crap. Nobody does that kind of stupid thing other than Richmond. I will never understand it. No city in the entire country does stupid crap like that. I’m so mad and so over it. If they would of just said 425 I would of been fine but to say 510 and then come back and say oh that’s including elevation is just another way to get my hopes up like everything else in this town. I’m done with Richmond this type of crap burns me up so much. Same with my sports teams giving me false hope is the worse thing you can do to me. I don’t see us ever going  above 500 feet. Im with you we need to save the Monroe building Richmond having its tallest at 425 is an absolute tragedy. It’s embarrassing and makes us look like a peewee city especially if the Monroe building comes down and builds something incredibly shorter. With the zoning there I doubt you could even build that tall there anymore. They better allow zoning there for a 40 or 50 story building enough of this 20 plus story crap and the 400 feet crap. I’m ready to go 500 feet. Also once we get scarce on properties Richmond will still do the same dumb thing and keep building midget towers no matter how scarce land gets. I don’t know what it’s going to take to build over 500 feet. 

[Ward Wood]

Just had an interesting thought.

It seems to me the building is going to be built on top of that grassy hill, so would that give it more height to move it to looking more like 510’ if you were down on the canal or coming up 95?

However it does seem to me in the rendering that Costar HQ2 and the Fed are suspiciously around the same height.

[eandslee]

12 minutes ago, Ward Wood said:

Just had an interesting thought.

It seems to me the building is going to be built on top of that grassy hill, so would that give it more height to move it to looking more like 510’ if you were down on the canal or coming up 95?

I seem to think so. It actually looks just a tad bit taller than the Fed Reserve in the rendering, so you can expect this tower to look as prominent (or just a bit more prominent) than the Fed Reserve Bank.  It will be nice to see the Fed Reserve have more company prominently sitting on the river.  Right now, it’s one of the first towers you see when driving north on I-95.  Maybe eventually it will get drowned out a bit by this, and more taller, more modern buildings around it. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by eandslee

[blopp1234]

“ Same with my sports teams giving me false hope is the worse thing you can do to me.“

Let me guess, you’re a Washington fan too?  ;D

[I miss RVA]

53 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

Yes the above sea level height is crap absolute crap. Nobody does that kind of stupid thing other than Richmond. I will never understand it. No city in the entire country does stupid crap like that. I’m so mad and so over it. If they would of just said 425 I would of been fine but to say 510 and then come back and say oh that’s including elevation is just another way to get my hopes up like everything else in this town. I’m done with Richmond this type of crap burns me up so much. Same with my sports teams giving me false hope is the worse thing you can do to me. I don’t see us ever going  above 500 feet. Im with you we need to save the Monroe building Richmond having its tallest at 425 is an absolute tragedy. It’s embarrassing and makes us look like a peewee city especially if the Monroe building comes down and builds something incredibly shorter. With the zoning there I doubt you could even build that tall there anymore. They better allow zoning there for a 40 or 50 story building enough of this 20 plus story crap and the 400 feet crap. I’m ready to go 500 feet. Also once we get scarce on properties Richmond will still do the same dumb thing and keep building midget towers no matter how scarce land gets. I don’t know what it’s going to take to build over 500 feet. 

Again, brother - I feel your pain. I've felt this pain nearly 50 years.

1.) peewee city -- I totally get where you're coming from. What bothers me the most about it is that for some unknown reason, there are SO many folks in this city who are perfectly 100% a-okay with RVA basically BEING a peewee city -- much less looking like one. These are the nutjobs who I accuse (sometimes directly in communication with them) of wanting to lock RVA under a fully sealed geodesic dome and to throw away the key - because they want to turn RVA into some kind of insipid living history museum so visitors will "appreciate" how RVA was in the late 19th century. Oh wait - we have two places like that - Charleston and Savannah. 

2.) properties becoming scares yet RVA continues to build small -- that's my fear, too. I know right now we have a world's oceans worth of vacant lots upon which large buildings can rise. My contention isn't even with not getting any 500-footers - it's with getting one 5, 6, 7, 8 story apartment building after another after another after another. At some point, we'll run out of room to put the apartment buildings - and - where will the 15-story models be? What about the 20 story versions? Or 30? Or 50? I know that plenty of folks are probably okay with that. I'm not. It's thinking small -- RVA's unfortunate M.O. for as long as I can remember. We have GOT to snap out of the small-minded thing.

Now Coupe pointed out that it's far less expensive to build those 5 or 6 story buildings because developers can use wood timbers atop concrete podiums -- the more vertical buildings require precast or steel, or concrete. Much more expensive. So there are certain economics at play here.

MY QUESTION - WHAT do we need to do to make it less cost-prohibitive to build taller here? Is the problem that local yocals just flat don't have the deep pockets that a bigger, more established development company (likely from out of state) might have? Is that our biggest problem?  How did we manage to get the Icon and the Opus? Bakery Lofts is on the table. MAYBE Rivers Edge II in some iteration will come to pass. Is it a matter that we need out of state (or at least out of the area) developers who have more resources to come here and plunk down money to get bigger buildings? I'm asking earnestly because I'd like to get some kind of grasp of what the future may look like in this area.

6 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

“ Same with my sports teams giving me false hope is the worse thing you can do to me.“

Let me guess, you’re a Washington fan too?  ;D

I am - life long. Ugh... a painful journey. They're not very good - but there are a handful of teams in the NFL that are actually significantly worse - either poorly coached, lack of talent, etc. And EVERYONE has been ravaged by injuries - at this time of the season, no team can make an excuse of injuries because everyone's running two or three slots down into the depth chart to patch holes among starters. Such is football.

[wrldcoupe4]

It’s more complicated than this, but basically, the rents don’t support the required returns for high quality high rise residential construction yet. Richmond is just starting to see more institutional capital flow in for multi family and this will help over time. Timing has been bad given the high construction costs at the moment. I think we will see some testing of the market soon. 
 

[I miss RVA]

42 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

It’s more complicated than this, but basically, the rents don’t support the required returns for high quality high rise residential construction yet. Richmond is just starting to see more institutional capital flow in for multi family and this will help over time. Timing has been bad given the high construction costs at the moment. I think we will see some testing of the market soon. 
 

Thanks, Coupe. As always, my friend. I really do appreciate your patience with those of us who don't understand real estate development outside of very minimal economics (and even that, for me, would be a stretch - I really do no nothing!) I do get what you're saying about timing vis a vis the elevated costs of construction right now. I'm sure across-the-board inflation, supply chain issues, etc., are impacting developers as much if not more than regular consumers. Hopefully this situation settles down soon (to everyone's benefit).

So two follow ups: 

1.) Institutional capital flow -- what is that exactly? From where does it come and how will it help?

2.) Testing of the market -- what does that mean? 

Thanks again for the crash course education in some of these matters. It really helps my understanding when we're all going headlong into discussions.

Edited December 21, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

6 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

“ Same with my sports teams giving me false hope is the worse thing you can do to me.“

Let me guess, you’re a Washington fan too?  ;D

Even worse a Detroit lions fan. 

[RiverYuppy]

I feel like RTD and RBS catfished me.  It's like women tell me about on the dating apps.  Guys will put in their profile that they're 510', but when you meet them in person they're really 425'.  Then if you're 410' and on some hills/heels you're still taller than them.

Anywho, the CoStar HQ is still a great addition. It's going to bring a lot of well paying jobs and accelerate residential development in the city.

[123fakestreet]

The BizSense article has been modified to say CoStar will build the tallest building "along the riverfront" 

[Icetera]

13 hours ago, KJHburg said:

now who is this person the CEO of Costar?   ""At Friday's press conference, Andy Florance cited the 510 feet figure and called it the tallest in the state, which turns out isn't the case. ""  

I just don't understand why Costar did not correct this as soon as they saw it.   No one anywhere quotes the height of a building with the elevation of the land underneath.  Our downtown area in Charlotte  is about 700 feet should we add that to our  building heights and claim we have multiple  1000 footers in Charlotte? 

 The new jobs are great for your city!   But now start a thread called Save James Monroe Bldg.  I thought some of y'all figured out that even with the elevation and this 425 Foot tall building it was still not 510 feet.   I will tell this this has been the hottest topic on any UP site in the last week.  

Dominion Energy did something similar but at least stated the architectural height from the beginning.  Given the 1' increase over DE's number, I bet CoStar followed their lead but dropped the ball on the further details.  The site I have been using to figure out elevation is below and I look at the center of the highest point to determine elevation.  With Dominion, I have the prominence at 506', so only a 3' variance.  Meanwhile, CoStar looks to be 494' for a 16' variance compared to 510'.  James Monroe Tower has a prominence of 511' despite being slightly lower, but using DE's margin of error it could still actually be lower than DE.

Quote

Rising just over 417 feet from its front entrance, Dominion’s new building would be the city’s second-tallest building, second only to the 29-story James Monroe Building, which stands at 449 feet at 101 N. 14th St.

Dominion, however, has emphasized that its peak will sit 509 feet above sea level, based on where it sits on the hill going up Cary and Canal. Elevation-wise, the company said, the new building would be the tallest in Richmond.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2016/12/13/ground-broken-for-20-story-dominion-tower/

https://www.mapcoordinates.net/en

EDIT:

The top corner of the lot closest to 5th street is showing 26m, which places this tower at the 510' mark.