NC Music Factory / Uptown Village / Deco One

[King of the Queen City]

I also posted this on the tech jobs thread because of AvidXChange, but it probably belongs more here. Besides cutting through the cemetery (right now you can only cross the railroad tracks at Johnson Street), what are the best options for connecting the Music Factory to the city?  During the daytime a straight shot through the cemetery to and from the Gateway District might not be a bad option for AvidXChange employees if there was a pedestrian crossing over the railroad tracks, but this would be a bad option for concert goers late at night.  Would a pedestrian walkway from the Graham Street Station on the future Silver Line through the ADM Milling property be feasible?

[dubone]

Other than the fact that our local transportation planning just gutted the funding for greenways to pay for wasteful interstate lanes, they did keep the funding for a very expensive greenway link to extend Irwin Greenway up the west side of the cemetery to NCMF and AvidXChange.  It would connect to the 5th/6th Street Cycle Track as well.    

I have long hoped for restoring the pedestrian link from 4th Ward to the Cemetery/Music Factory with a ped bridge.   These types of projects are severely underfunded, but only gain traction (unintended pun) when light rail projects start collecting the analysis of pedestrian pathways, so likely there will be a strong push to enhance that pedestrian link as part of the Silver line planning.   

I think on the north side of the cemetery it is unlikely a new gate will open, but when th greenway connector opens, at least that reduces some of the barriers to connection

https://www.mecknc.gov/ParkandRec/Greenways/PlannedGreenways/Documents/Greenways Master Plan.pdf

Quote

STIP funding: EB-5970    $4.637M  Committed on STIP for FY2025
Route/Facility Irwin Creek Greenway - Eastern Extension
From/Cross Street Terminus of Irwin Creek Greenway To Hamilton Street
Description: The proposed 0.6 mile extension of this greenway will result in approximately 3 miles of trail connectivity and provide improvements for many new trail users to wish to reach the North Carolina Music Factory, Irwin Creek and Byers Elementary Schools, Ray?s Splash Planet, historic Elmwood Cemetery, Greenville Recreation Center and other facilities already on the existing greenway.

As a resident of 4th Ward, the homeless/addict issue is absurdly bad with respect to the fact that the cemetery there does not have average society running and walking through any longer, so it is mostly just the vagrants that will cross the track and then have their own zone in that industrial cluster, even with a few of the buildings back there demolished.   (Fun fact, less than an hour ago, I tried to get a photo of a homeless guy who woke me up destroying flower pots at each home he passed, and he suggested he would  kill me someday when I'm not expecting it, which was charming enough, then pulled out his dick and pissed on the sidewalk).    My point being any full-society pedestrian crossing to that area will hopefully diversify and add eyes on the street that help reduce the concentration as a safety zone for addicts and homeless.   

 

I think a good spot for a crossing bridge, would be near the the mainline crossing to more easily cross both railroad lines, next to the 277 bridge where there is some right of way for the ramps up.  But really this is a just a goal that the city is not pursuing at all, but at least they are trying to get some connectivity through that cemetery. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2376577,-80.8411517,3a,18.2y,145.46h,86.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_MxJAv26dXCHB9FybjpEig!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 

 

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, dubone said:

As a resident of 4th Ward, the homeless/addict issue is absurdly bad with respect to the fact that the cemetery there does not have average society running and walking through any longer, so it is mostly just the vagrants that will cross the track and then have their own zone in that industrial cluster, even with a few of the buildings back there demolished.   (Fun fact, less than an hour ago, I tried to get a photo of a homeless guy who woke me up destroying flower pots at each home he passed, and he suggested he would  kill me someday when I'm not expecting it, which was charming enough, then pulled out his dick and pissed on the sidewalk).    My point being any full-society pedestrian crossing to that area will hopefully diversify and add eyes on the street that help reduce the concentration as a safety zone for addicts and homeless.   

Not sure it necessarily would help 4th Ward, but do you think the new CMPD precinct going in at Elmwood's entrance would help the situation there? 

[a2theb]

1 hour ago, dubone said:

 

As a resident of 4th Ward, the homeless/addict issue is absurdly bad with respect to the fact that the cemetery there does not have average society running and walking through any longer, so it is mostly just the vagrants that will cross the track and then have their own zone in that industrial cluster, even with a few of the buildings back there demolished.   (Fun fact, less than an hour ago, I tried to get a photo of a homeless guy who woke me up destroying flower pots at each home he passed, and he suggested he would  kill me someday when I'm not expecting it, which was charming enough, then pulled out his dick and pissed on the sidewalk).    My point being any full-society pedestrian crossing to that area will hopefully diversify and add eyes on the street that help reduce the concentration as a safety zone for addicts and homeless.   

 

 

 

Used to always take the cemetery route to get to shows at uptown amphitheatre or fillmore but it has gotten to the point that I would rather Uber than get harassed by various miscreants wandering around back there.

[dubone]

Maybe, hopefully.  No one knows how to solve the problem, other than moving to the suburbs, which I don't really plan to do.  The police already do have a presence, but they can't harass citizens walking down the street, even if they are homeless.  And I believe they have some limitations on what they can do with the camps.      I even happened to be awake there inside and had no idea this guy was out sleeping under someone's car.  I only went outside when he was screaming racist hate speech against the black guests in that neighbor home (the homeless addict was also black, but I still would consider his words racist and hateful).  I went out and saw him vandalizing the flower pots, and intervened to get an image of him for the police.   

Who knows.  It's exhausting and has gotten severely worse in last 5 years.    In the last few months I have had 2 instances where I have been told they they plan to hurt or kill me, "I know where you live".   In this case due to me intervening vandalism and taking a photo of him.  In another case purely asking the man to please move on after we had already told him no to begging for money from the sidewalk to my porch.   

 

The homeless already cross the tracks and control the area between the rail and the cemetery.  A real crossing / bridge would let the rest of society cross, bringing those areas back from being 100% homeless, more runners, bicyclists, dog walkers, strollers, police on bicycles, etc.    

 

 

[cltcane]

21 hours ago, dubone said:

Maybe, hopefully.  No one knows how to solve the problem, other than moving to the suburbs, which I don't really plan to do.  The police already do have a presence, but they can't harass citizens walking down the street, even if they are homeless.  And I believe they have some limitations on what they can do with the camps.      Even I happened to be awake there inside and had no idea this guy was out sleeping under someone's car.  I only went out when he was screaming racist hate speech against the black guests in that neighbor home (the homeless addict was also black, but I still would consider his words racist and hateful).  I went out and saw as him vandalizing the flower pots, and intervened to get an image of him for the police.   

Who knows.  It's exhausting and has gotten severely worse in last 5 years.    In the last few months I have had 2 instances where I have been told they they plan to hurt or kill me, "I know where you live".   In this case due to me intervening vandalism and taking a photo of him.  In another case purely asking the man to please move on after we had already told him no to begging for money from the sidewalk to my porch.   

 

The homeless already cross the tracks and control the area between the rail and the cemetery.  A real crossing / bridge would let the rest of society cross, bringing those areas back from being 100% homeless, more runners, bicyclists, dog walkers, strollers, police on bicycles, etc.    

 

 

I agree that the homeless/addict problem has gotten much worse in the last few years, especially in Forth Ward where I also live.  Vandalism and threats of physical violence are increasingly common, and I now avoid parks altogether, even in daylight.  I go out of my way to walk down more-traveled streets, and I’m always hyper-vigilant at night.  I get aggressively panhandled walking to and from work at least once each way every day, and I’ve lost track of the death threats.

Edited July 20, 2019 by cltcane

[TheOneRJ]

The Greyhound station and bridge near it always has a lot of homeless people as well. I hated walking from my classes at JWU to my dorm across from The Vue that way. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by TheOneRJ

[southslider]

A pedestrian-only connection may not be the best idea for a heavy homeless area. Just look at all those dead-end pocket-parks in Fourth Ward.

[NYCLT]

15 hours ago, cltcane said:

I agree that the homeless/addict problem has gotten much worse in the last few years, especially in Forth Ward where I also live.  Vandalism and threats of physical violence are increasingly common, and I now avoid parks altogether, even in daylight.  I go out of my way to walk down more-traveled streets, and I’m always hyper-vigilant at night.  I get aggressively panhandled walking to and from work at least once each way every day, and I’ve lost track of the death threats.

I lived in fourth ward for 4 years and I dealt with my fair share of panhandling - but I never got any death threats - that's wild.

[Spartan]

I agree the homeless problem in Fourth Ward has gotten worse in the past few years. The security people in the park seem to help with the vagrancy situation  in the park somewhat, but what do you do about people just walking down the street? CMPD is understaffed and can't really handle the current load of work.

The ped bridge idea will never gain traction unless FOFW / CCCP start demanding it. I think a nice, wide and intuitive connection between Tryon Street and the NCMF would probably get a decent amount of pedestrian and bicycle traffic, and make it more than a drive-to tourist destination since you could pre-game in center city and then walk/bike/scooter over.

The City has tried to get grant funding for it in the past through federal grants, but it never gains any traction due to it not being in an identified need in any plan, and not being a priority for politicians. The Center City Vision Plan update is coming soon, so that's probably the best chance to start advocating for the connection to NCMF.

 

[dubone]

On 7/20/2019 at 10:45 AM, NYCLT said:

I lived in fourth ward for 4 years and I dealt with my fair share of panhandling - but I never got any death threats - that's wild.

It is not as much a part of daily life as much as that any interaction with the vagrants that turns sour leads them to immediately make a threat because they know that is how to get under your skin.   

Fourth Ward is a highly pedestrian corridor and 99%+ of the thousands that walk through the streets on a given day are not doing harm, but the people who live their life on substances are pretty much living that life uptown, and when they get crossed, they get extremely unpleasant. 

 

Music Factory and AvidXchange is a huge asset to the northern part of uptown, so all infrastructure to connect to it easier, the better, regardless of its potential for helping the impossible problem of addict vagrants.       

[KJHburg]

Not sure why the 2nd building  over at AvidXchange is not underway yet but will contact an exec I know there.   And those Cadence apartments are growing on me.

 

[KJHburg]

Had to go way back to find this thread.  Rezoning request for new townhomes by TriPointe Homes an Orange County builder for new townhomes right outside the 277 loop but walking distance to the Music Factory.   Pioneering location but very close to uptown.  " The Cue"   89 garage townhomes .  This builder is coming into this market both barrels blazing from new townhomes from Kannapolis and Harrisburg to now right on the edge of Uptown to Fort Mill.  depending on price this could be a home run. 

https://charlottenc.gov/planning/Rezoning/RezoningPetitions/2020Petitions/Pages/2020-069.aspx

site plan below

https://charlottenc.gov/planning/Rezoning/RezoningPetitions/2020Petitions/Documents/Site_Plans/2020_069_SitePlan_2020_3_31.pdf

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by KJHburg

[Madison Parkitect]

Why are we building garage townhomes that close to uptown?

[Prodev]

Would you rather they be surface parked and lower density?

[KJHburg]

^^ Garage townhomes are probably the only way they could sell them in that area.  It is not very walkable unless you work at AvidXchange at the Music Factory.  Not too much to walk through at this point.  Garage townhomes do eliminate surface parking.     We should want as much housing close in on vacant land than new in far flung areas of the metro area.  I think this project is a home run depending on price. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Madison Parkitect said:

Why are we building garage townhomes that close to uptown?

Its only close as the bird flies, it couldn't be further on foot.

[CLT2014]

17 minutes ago, Tyree Ricardo said:

Its only close as the bird flies, it couldn't be further on foot.

Agree, it is a pretty "car dependent" area. 25 minute walk to the tiny Harris Teeter supermarket in Uptown. 33 minute walk to an office like Bank of America Corporate Center. 32 minute walk to the 9th Street light rail station. Then throw in the quickest route during winter when the sun sets by 5PM is through the cemetery and walking under the Brookshire Freeway on Johnson Street which is a homeless camp. I'd be shocked if you could sell anything without parking in that area. We are lucky to be getting investment in that area, and investment that will bring permanent residents that are buying and will have a vested interest in the area rather than rental apartments where people move out after 2 - 3 years. 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by CLT2014

[Madison Parkitect]

I was more questioning the townhomes than the garage part, but I see now that the location wouldn't really support more density that I'd wish for.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

I was more questioning the townhomes than the garage part, but I see now that the location wouldn't really support more density that I'd wish for.

yea sadly its basically just at the end of a fairly suburban neighborhood. 

On a Camp North End note, boy is there a lot of space there to do something great.

[CLT>]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Agree, it is a pretty "car dependent" area. 25 minute walk to the tiny Harris Teeter supermarket in Uptown. 33 minute walk to an office like Bank of America Corporate Center. 32 minute walk to the 9th Street light rail station. Then throw in the quickest route during winter when the sun sets by 5PM is through the cemetery and walking under the Brookshire Freeway on Johnson Street which is a homeless camp. I'd be shocked if you could sell anything without parking in that area. We are lucky to be getting investment in that area, and investment that will bring permanent residents that are buying and will have a vested interest in the area rather than rental apartments where people move out after 2 - 3 years. 

 

At least with the alleys the garages hopefully will be accessed from the rear and not eating up street frontage.

[KJHburg]

anyone know why the 2nd AvidXchange building is not started yet?  It has been breaking ground so they said for the last year.  Still no sign today. 

[Yo Diaz!]

anyone know why the 2nd AvidXchange building is not started yet?  It has been breaking ground so they said for the last year.  Still no sign today. 

A couple of the Brasfield & Gorrie supers at Ally did the first Avid Xchange building a few years ago (I did some work there too). They told me back in the spring that the second building had been delayed until early 2021.
I do not remember the reason(s) why though.


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Actually they told me this late February early March. Before Covid became a big thing and shutdowns happened. So at that time at least covid had nothing to do with it.


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[KJHburg]

8 minutes ago, Yo Diaz! said:

A couple of the Brasfield & Gorrie supers at Ally did the first Avid Xchange building a few years ago (I did some work there too). They told me back in the spring that the second building had been delayed until early 2021.
I do not remember the reason(s) why though.
Actually they told me this late February early March. Before Covid became a big thing and shutdowns happened. So at that time at least covid had nothing to do with it.
 

Okay that makes sense as I am sure most are working at home but like most companies they will need people to come back at some point.  

[KJHburg]

from todays Biz Journal

"""It was an opportunity Noi Vong couldn’t pass up. The entertainment industry veteran has snapped up a 7,000-square-foot spot at the AvidXChange Music Factory for a new venture called Bazal Gallery Venue.  Vong says that space — which previously housed Butter nightclub and most recently Club One — has long been a favorite of his. He's also behind QC Social in uptown.  His aim is to create an upscale experience and venue, unlike anything offered in the Queen City currently.""

Upscale entertainment venue to open this year at AvidXchange Music Factory - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)