Monroe Ward / Oregon Hill

[whw53]

Ok then! So it's Douglas. Glad to see them lining up a queue of projects here in Monroe Ward. And....article mentions they may finally be turning their sights across Broad to make some headway on their long neglected holdings around 2nd. This is very encouraging. 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/02/03/douglas-development-makes-second-acquisition-in-the-city-in-a-month/

[whw53]

Ok so the 711 Dawn architecture improved - not so for YMCA project at Adams and Grace. - what happened, gosh that prior rendering was stately  (scroll up).  What comes to mind now  -i immediately thought  'Houthi cell block'.  Love the density and this moving forward but jeeez leweez, looks cheap. 

Whatever - it'll probably grow on me , WP designs usually do. POD filed today for this one. Glad to see all these project from last year moving forward but I'm ready for some new-new. 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by whw53

[wrldcoupe4]

Please make it stop. Guys do architects really look at this and say, man I’m proud of this? Or do you think they say, ehhh I did the best I could with a crappy budget. But is this the best even with a crappy budget? 

[Brent114]

I don’t hate it.  Feels kinda South American.  If the white parts protrude it will be pretty attractive.  It reminds me of the Hand Craft cleaners building. 
 

It all comes down to finishes and plantings.    This could look like a prison or basic middle class housing.  Hopefully it’s a grower  

[wrldcoupe4]

You are kind  but you know in your heart of hearts the finishes will be a let down too. 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, whw53 said:

Ok so the 711 Dawn architecture improved - not so for YMCA project at Adams and Grace. - what happened, gosh that prior rendering was stately  (scroll up).  What comes to mind now  -i immediately thought  'Houthi cell block'.  Love the density and this moving forward but jeeez leweez, looks cheap. 

Whatever - it'll probably grow on me , WP designs usually do. POD filed today for this one. Glad to see all these project from last year moving forward but I'm ready for some new-new. 

 

Wait, WHAT???

What happened to the building for this site that was on Nachum Goodenow's drawing board? That was the active project for this parcel, no?

What happened?

JESUS - are the people at Walter Parks dropping acid before sitting down to do this stuff? The Goodenow building actually looked pretty good -- really solid and strong for a 6-story building. WHAT exactly IS this monstrosity?

Please pinch me - wake me up - tell me this is an awful nightmare ... did RVA-UP (or is it UP-RVA) somehow suddenly get sucked into a vortex of The Twilight Zone?  Is the late Rod Serling just going to materialize out of a shadow somewhere and tell us this is all a some kind of manifestation of our collective worst imagination?

Can we take up a referendum on this with both designs on the ballot?

Edited February 11, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Shakman]

I can build something out Legos and it will look better.

[I miss RVA]

43 minutes ago, Shakman said:

I can build something out Legos and it will look better.

My kids (who are turning 13, 12 and 10) could, too!

[Brent114]

I think the worst thing about Walter Parks projects is the horrible renderings.  This rendering has a real Hasbro feel to it.   It’s hard to get a sense of texture.  And the cartoon windows don’t help.  

The lines are good.  I remain hopeful   

[I miss RVA]

Ugh... I just can't. Not with this one. Some of their other stuff, yeah - I agree. It worked out okay. But these weird serpentine concrete horizontal columns that snake their way up the building... one floor goes all the way to the edge with a support column but then it juts out - and the next floor is just a balcony - but the one above juts out -- it's just TOO weird for my taste. It looks like someone must've taking something really potent and was on a wild trip in which they thought they were a hippy back in the '60s and pulled something out of 1950s-60s "modern" design. Only they missed the mark in doing so.

What happened to the Goodenow design? I thought that was what was being used for this project? Why did the developer drop Goodenow in favor of Parks? (no wait - I know ... cost. Had to be. Want to build a building on the cheap, may as well get it designed on the cheap with a cheaper design that won't cost as much to build)...

I'm sorry - downtown deserves better.

[I miss RVA]

So I guess certificates allowing building demos have no shelf life? (Or is the shelf life directly proportional to the depth of the pockets of said applicant?)

Sad to hear this news about the gorgeous old SBC building.

From RIchmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/02/14/jefferson-hotel-owner-will-be-allowed-to-demolish-century-old-former-church/

[Icetera]

I guess I can deal with the bland 6-story if it now also includes an 11-story companion (design in the works):
 

Quote

One of those new buildings, planned for the lot at the corner of Grace and Foushee streets, would rise 11 stories and total 160 units, project architect Walter Parks said.

The other building, planned for the corner of Grace and Adams Street, would be six stories high and total 70 units, according to a development plan filed with the city last week.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/02/15/downtown-ymca-redevelopment-plan-calls-for-266-apartments-in-3-buildings/

[whw53]

Same feeling here. Based off the massing we've seen for this site I wasn't expecting more than 8 stories or so - 11 'll do just fine.

[Brent114]

11 floors sounds great.  I wish they’d start with that one, looks like it may be a year or two (or three) out.  
 

The whole project would be more successful if built at once.  That section of Grace could use an injection of people.   Staring with just 60 people won’t help the struggling market (between 1st street and this site, super nice owner) nearby.  There’s hardly ever any synergy with downtown development because it’s always done piecemeal.  That’s no way to sustain retail/services let alone spur more.  

 

[Icetera]

23 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

11 floors sounds great.  I wish they’d start with that one, looks like it may be a year or two (or three) out.  
 

The whole project would be more successful if built at once.  That section of Grace could use an injection of people.   Staring with just 60 people won’t help the struggling market (between 1st street and this site, super nice owner) nearby.  There’s hardly ever any synergy with downtown development because it’s always done piecemeal.  That’s no way to sustain retail/services let alone spur more.  

 

I cannot imagine it all done at once but certainly some overlapping phasing, which may be what they do.  I imagine that the foundation  and major structural team could work on the 6-story while the interior crew renovates the gym.  By the time the gym is renovated that crew can hopefully move to the 6-story while the foundation/structural crew begins the tower, and so forth.  Fiscally, I imagine YMCA cannot budget out 3 full crews in one financial cycle, but this would allow for some spread.

[Brent114]

I understand why these things are approached tepidly.   It just never happens fast enough to give the surrounding businesses a jolt of life.  The first businesses to show up are usually shuttered before the projects are even half built out.   By the time they are finished those businesses are gone and the people living near them have already established shopping habits that don’t include local shops.  It’s harder to win them over later. 
 

In this instance building the 11 floor building first would be better for the neighborhood. Moving twice as many people into the area bodes  well for the long term success of the development.   Moving a few dozen people in will have no effect on street life or desirability resulting in crestfallen developers that scale back future projects  (i.e.  the 11 floor building will never get built).    
 

 

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, Brent114 said:

In this instance building the 11 floor building first would be better for the neighborhood. Moving twice as many people into the area bodes  well for the long term success of the development.   Moving a few dozen people in will have no effect on street life or desirability resulting in crestfallen developers that scale back future projects  (i.e.  the 11 floor building will never get built).    
 

 

This is my biggest concern as well. I have no idea why, when it comes to buildings of differing sizes, the BIGGER/TALLER building always gets pushed off to "phase 2" -- and, as you said, is almost always ends up that the project gets scaled back because market conditions don't bear the results the developers were looking for with the smaller building or the economy changes and the tower portion either gets scaled back to 5 or 6 stories or axed altogether.

Didn't this happen with Scott's Collection? Wasn't there supposed to be an 11-story tower as part of the multi-building project buildout? And somehow, the tower got canned in favor of a collection of 5 or 6 story buildings. It happens WAYYYY too often in RVA to suit me.

I love the optimism, but I'm not holding my breath for this 11-story building. Even if we see renderings - I'm not holding my breath. We've been jilted and left at the altar/under the chuppah WAYYY too many times. I won't believe it until I see construction crews ON SITE - turning shovels of dirt, and nice, big, tower crane rising to stack 11 floors one atop the other. Until then, put me in the "yeah, right, sure..." category.

Mind you, if they would relent and build that 11-story building first -- could you imagine what it would look like to see this building, plus the 12-story Admiral plus the 15-story Pinecrest ALL THREE rising on the downtown skyline more-or-less together?  It's fun to dream sometimes.

Edited February 15, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

Okay guys - I'm still not holding my breath over this project actually coming to pass - HOWEVER - I've updated our little downtown 3-D map to include it at Foushee and Grace, just to give us perspective and the overall view of how it would fit in downtown.

 

[DowntownCoruscant]

55 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

This is my biggest concern as well. I have no idea why, when it comes to buildings of differing sizes, the BIGGER/TALLER building always gets pushed off to "phase 2" -- and, as you said, is almost always ends up that the project gets scaled back because market conditions don't bear the results the developers were looking for with the smaller building or the economy changes and the tower portion either gets scaled back to 5 or 6 stories or axed altogether.

Not to be glib, but doesn’t this answer the question? Why be on the hook for the bigger, ie, more expensive thing until the concept is proven?

I get that there’s a matter of motivational chicken-and-egg dynamics (an area doesn’t become successful in isolation), but this discussion reminds me of Paul Reiser’s character from “Mad About You.” He’s at his wife’s office party and is hesitant to get appetizers. When asked why, he says something to the effect of “I’m very wary about being the one to cut a cheese.”

On another subject, happy birthday to your 10 year old! From one dad of a 10 year old boy to another, it’s a pretty awesome age.

Edited February 15, 2022 by DowntownCoruscant

[I miss RVA]

3 minutes ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

Not to be glib, but doesn’t this answer the question? Why be on the hook for the bigger, ie, more expensive thing until the concept is proven?

I get that there’s a matter of motivational chicken-and-egg dynamics (an area doesn’t become successful in isolation), but this discussion reminds me of Paul Reiser’s character from “Mad About You.” He’s at his wife’s office party and is hesitant to get appetizers. When asked why, he says something to the effect of “I’m very wary about being the one to cut a cheese.”

On another subject, happy birthday to your 10 year old! From one dad of a 10 year old boy to another, it’s a pretty awesome age.

Chicken and egg:  All true. But if they have enough confidence in the market to begin with to even have the 11-story building on the table, then why not just be bold and build it? Given the heat of the RVA multi-family market, I don't get the feeling anyone is going to build something that size only to see it sit half empty for 2 or 3 years. It would seem to me that if the 11-story building gets built, along with Pinecrest at 15 and Admiral at 12 - and they ALL fill up pretty quickly, then won't that set a standard for how well Monroe Ward/Jackson Ward are doing?

So on the flip side: If they build the 6-story building and get it filled, will they still build out the project to the full scale with the 11-story building? Why is it that so many times (at least in RVA - I can't speak to other cities), the bigger "phase 2" portion gets scaled back or eliminated altogether, and as a result, the "good stuff" never gets built?

Re: 10 year old boys/b'day -- Thanks!  Yep - it'll be my second rodeo with a 10-year-old boy (his older brother -- the middle kid -- turns 12 this summer) ... it really is a very awesome age. 

[ancientcarpenter]

What is One Residential Tower that looks to be 23-25 stories on the map there?! Why orange?

[I miss RVA]

17 hours ago, ancientcarpenter said:

What is One Residential Tower that looks to be 23-25 stories on the map there?! Why orange?

Yellow indicates projects we know of and have gotten some kind of official word that they're at least -- minimally -- in the pipeline (like the Y-project -- no POD has been filed yet, but the developer is on record in RBS saying that the building is part of the overall plan). The One Residential Tower is the really slick-looking 23-25-story glass box residential building that (I think - please correct me if I'm giving incorrect citation) @whw53found on an architect's drawing board, the same way a bunch of projects were found on Nachum Goodenow's drawing board. We more-or-less pinpointed the building as slated for around Madison and Broad.

Orange is to designate projects that we're aware of but that we know -- as of right now -- are either past projects that haven't gone anywhere yet or simply aren't even in the pipeline. Like all the City Center stuff that came out of Navy Hill but so far nothing further ever came of them (the Hyatt Regency, the two residential buildings on Broad Street) or the ORIGINAL, pre-NH "City Center" complex on E. Grace between 6th & 7th.) I color-coded them orange to give us perspective of what could be coming with -- or without -- the "city center" components (as well as the ORT in the Arts District).

Edited February 16, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

Just wanted to point out: looking at our little 3-D downtown map, it honestly is impressive that as of February 2022, there is at least the POTENTIAL to see no fewer than 15 "highrise" buidings (in other words, double-digit floor height) rise in downtown Richmond over the next few years -- and that 10 of them are at least known to be "in the pipeline" in some manner, with the other four holdover projects (from previous proposals) that could ultimate be resurrected as part of new proposals. And this doesn't account for all of the other buildings that could pop up as part of the City Center development, once the Coliseum is removed, and one "architect's drawing board" project that could still come to pass.

At this point, I would think the bigger questions are:  WHEN will we see these various projects get underway? How long will it take for all of these to get built? (presuming, of course, that they all DO get built) ... and how many of these might get started this year?

This is truly unprecedented in Richmond's history. I can't emphasize this enough. There has never been a time when THIS MANY large projects were proposed for downtown at any one given time. Just taking THESE into account, can you imagine what downtown will look like in, say, five years (and certainly by 2030) IF all of these new buildings are constructed? And given that success begets success, it gives rise to the question: if all of these buildings come to fruition, how many MORE projects will be born in the years to come as a result of the successful development of these projects?

All in all, this is very exciting to consider.

Edited February 16, 2022 by I miss RVA

[ancientcarpenter]

32 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

how many MORE projects will be born in the years to come as a result of the successful development of these projects?

 

I never thought I'd say this but I'm so glad we have so many empty parking lots.

It could end up being a developer's paradise... let's also hope they bring in good architects (not you Walter Parks)

[Downtowner]

16 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Yellow indicates projects we know of and have gotten some kind of official word that they're at least -- minimally -- in the pipeline (like the Y-project -- no POD has been filed yet, but the developer is on record in RBS saying that the building is part of the overall plan). The One Residential Tower is the really slick-looking 23-25-story glass box residential building that (I think - please correct me if I'm giving incorrect citation) @whw53found on an architect's drawing board, the same way a bunch of projects were found on Nachum Goodenow's drawing board. We more-or-less pinpointed the building as slated for around Madison and Broad.

Orange is to designate projects that we're aware of but that we know -- as of right now -- are either past projects that haven't gone anywhere yet or simply aren't even in the pipeline. Like all the City Center stuff that came out of Navy Hill but so far nothing further ever came of them (the Hyatt Regency, the two residential buildings on Broad Street) or the ORIGINAL, pre-NH "City Center" complex on E. Grace between 6th & 7th.) I color-coded them orange to give us perspective of what could be coming with -- or without -- the "city center" components (as well as the ORT in the Arts District).

I just looked at Nahum Goodenow website and didn’t see this on there anymore. I went under on the boards and it’s no longer there from what I can tell? Does anyone know where this photo was found if it was not Nahum goodenow just been getting a little worried about this now.