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Hillmount Condos

twoshort

By twoshort
in Grand Rapids

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

Posted
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I'm sure that in order to hit their target price, piping A/C in probably had to be nixed. I don't know about this building, but many downtown have radiant heat. If it has radiant heat, putting A/C in would probably push the condo price up by 20-30%...

Joe

Hi. I just asked you about these on the Union Square board.

No A/C??????? That's just NUTS.

Budgie

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Budgie Frisket Burg

Budgie Frisket

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I'm sure that in order to hit their target price, piping A/C in probably had to be nixed. I don't know about this building, but many downtown have radiant heat. If it has radiant heat, putting A/C in would probably push the condo price up by 20-30%...

Joe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that makes sense. But still, no A/C...?

Just read a later post that says they are offering free window A/C to first 50 that sign up. That's better!

Budgie

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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They also make room air conditioners for around $500 that cool about 300 sq ft and are more attractive than putting one in the window. It is kind of hard to sleep when the humidity is so high at night (that's just me). Just do a search online for "portable air conditioners" ;)

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dnast Hamlet

dnast

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Hell, last time I went to Meijers they had portable air conditioners for ~$300.

Thanks, acarlton, for clarifing about the AC situation, by the way. I'm not in GR, but would love to hear from developers in my city. I was honestly wondering about how AC wasn't included, and even though I haven't even considered a condo in GR it was great to hear the other side of the story.

One thing I want to clarify and challenge you on, though - if all developers are waiting for the condo buying to saturate, wouldn't it take things beyond the point of capturing as many potential renters as possible? I think Grand Rapids could really capitalize (and you as a city have been doing a good job of relatively staying one step ahead of the Jones's) on the virtually untapped markets of young professionals, affordable (but not subsidized) housing, and even (gasp!) families looking for quasi-urban living.

I think most American cities are missing out on urban family living. There are families - especially mine ;) - that don't necessarily want to live in the suburbs or even suburban-like neighborhoods. You can find it in most other nations, but here the mindset here is that every partent thinks of things from a suburban standpoint once they've had kids. Hate to bring things off-topic, but it's something I've wanted developers to think about for a long time.

I'll leave it at that beause maybe there aren't enough people to support my cause...

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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Unfortunately, it's all about the schools. There is a pretty standard migration to and from the city. You move into the city after college, buy a house and live in it (happily). Then, kids come along and you start thinking about their future. The next step is to the burbs.

If find this to be true in almost every instance of people I know. I hope GRPS can turn it around so parents have an option, but right now, our schools are terrible, underfunded and bleeding heavily.

Joe

Hell, last time I went to Meijers they had portable air conditioners for ~$300.

Thanks, acarlton, for clarifing about the AC situation, by the way. I'm not in GR, but would love to hear from developers in my city. I was honestly wondering about how AC wasn't included, and even though I haven't even considered a condo in GR it was great to hear the other side of the story.

One thing I want to clarify and challenge you on, though - if all developers are waiting for the condo buying to saturate, wouldn't it take things beyond the point of capturing as many potential renters as possible? I think Grand Rapids could really capitalize (and you as a city have been doing a good job of relatively staying one step ahead of the Jones's) on the virtually untapped markets of young professionals, affordable (but not subsidized) housing, and even (gasp!) families looking for quasi-urban living.

I think most American cities are missing out on urban family living. There are families - especially mine ;) - that don't necessarily want to live in the suburbs or even suburban-like neighborhoods. You can find it in most other nations, but here the mindset here is that every partent thinks of things from a suburban standpoint once they've had kids. Hate to bring things off-topic, but it's something I've wanted developers to think about for a long time.

I'll leave it at that beause maybe there aren't enough people to support my cause...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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acarlton Unincorporated Area

acarlton

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Schools are part of it...but it is also the cost. The air conditioning situation at Hillmount is a prime example, second story would love to provide it, but it is just not economical.

In terms of housing for renters and families, the cost of development of older buildings downtown is so high, that developers need to build high density smaller sized units that can be sold to cover their cost.

For renters, the cost of renovation is often so high that rent rates need to be raised. Rental units are available, but downtown living is expensive; I think expecting the rental rates to be market with the burbs is unreasonable. Plus, few would rent when their mortgage payment would be close to monthly rent. The demand curve for downtown rentals drops considerably when better (cheaper) options become available elsewhere (ie. apple orchard apartments or flowers meadow townehomes).

For families, yes schools are a factor, but for the same reasons as above, housing downtown is too expensive for most. Developers want density to make a profit on their investment and density means smaller sized condos. Most families with children "need" more than the 900 square feet they could afford downtown.

You ask why the only thing being built downtown right now is condos. Well it is the only type of housing developers can make a profit on. Give it time...this will change as the demand for something other than the subdivision goes up, but then...I am an idealist.

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Nitro Burg

Nitro

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You ask why the only thing being built downtown right now is condos. Well it is the only type of housing developers can make a profit on. Give it time...this will change as the demand for something other than the subdivision goes up, but then...I am an idealist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. The condo route is the only one that makes sense in a pro forma these days.

The demand for student housing downtown is going to be huge in the next decade. However, it is tough to make the numbers work. If you're going to renovate an old building why not condo it out and make upper end units out of it? Rather then take the mid to lower end approach with student housing. The cost of rehabbing these days doesn't offset the gain in the student housing market.

Nitro

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GR_Urbanist Burg

GR_Urbanist

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I agree.  The condo route is the only one that makes sense in a pro forma these days. 

The demand for student housing downtown is going to be huge in the next decade.  However, it is tough to make the numbers work.  If you're going to renovate an old building why not condo it out and make upper end units out of it?  Rather then take the mid to lower end approach with student housing.  The cost of rehabbing these days doesn't offset the gain in the student housing market.

Nitro

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That's too bad. A whole segment of the population is getting the short end of the housing stick with the hope that, maybe one day, the numbers will add up so the only people that can live within the heart of the city aren't just the ones who can afford 100K condos. I honestly believe that the students, and non-affluent young people will be the ones to make the DT area thrive, just as they did in the years when most gave up on the place. I do not believe that it will be just 60 year old retires or 30-somthings making 6 figures.

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acarlton Unincorporated Area

acarlton

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I agree GR Urbanist. I think one immediate solution to this dilema and promote the DT entertainment district is to invest tax dollars in transit options like better bussing and bike lanes. This way students and younger renters can live in the DT outskirts (Heritage Hill, Cherry Hill, South Hill, Alger Heights and the westside) and still have easy access and a "close feel" to downtown.

Being a part of downtown doesn't have to mean living in a loft on Monroe circle, but to promote DT spending, it needs to be the easiest to access for food and entertainment and have all of the amenities that the 28th/mall distrcts have.

In my utopia...that police station would become a great indoor/outdoor shopping center with a high end department store.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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In my utopia...that police station would become a great indoor/outdoor shopping center with a high end department store.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's funny that you mention it, because prior to it being a police station, and a "mall for kids", it was originally built as an indoor mall with a department store (I don't recall the name). Sort of a mini "Water Tower Place". It went belly up and sat vacant for a long time before the Colvins put together Mackie's World (sadly named after their son who died). They could not generate enough traffic and could not fill all of the bays (and a host of other issues), and they too went belly up, and left a big unpaid bill that the GR taxpayers got stuck with. I don't know if an indoor mall is what is needed in that area :P

In terms of college aged people (or recent graduates) living in the downtown area, there are probably more than 200,000 college students in a 100 mile radius of Grand Rapids, and probably 30,000/year graduating. That seems like a huge market that should be tapped into for housing, instead of having them leave the State for better pastures after they graduate. Even if you retained or attracted 25% of local college graduates, that's a whopping 7500 people/year.

acarlton is right in that in the outlying areas with good transit, it could be more affordable than in "Center City" In terms of jobs, just having large population growth itself creates thousands of jobs. Just look at the fast growing areas such as Las Vegas and Atlanta. They do not have giant industries setting up shop and hiring 10,000 people at a time. It is mainly small businesses. Jobs are being created ten-fold just to provide services to the ever expanding populations there. And not just fast food service :P We're talking financial, real estate, construction, law, medical, house-cleaning, daycare, beauty, remodeling, security, blah blah blah services.

Way off topic, end rant ;)

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dnast Hamlet

dnast

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That's understandable about both the availability of rental units and family housing when you put it like that. I find it reassuring that only expensive condos are currently being built because of lack of choice instead of just following trends.

Hopefully more American cities can reach the point where condos and apartments in an urban environment will be available to a wider range of demographics soon like many cities in Canada, for instance.

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Budgie Frisket Burg

Budgie Frisket

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I visited Hillmount Condos this evening. Very cool. I loved the windows and the view is great. Heritage Hill as a neighborhood has a wonderful feeling, very different from the atmosphere here downtown. Like, duh, right?

I was told that they can configure a unit pretty much the way I'd like (within reason). For example, they said they could build an upstairs loft into the floorplan for me.

Hmmm. I have to talk to my furniture about this.

Tough choice...

Budgie

P.S. acarlton is a sweetie. Very helpful!

:)

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Budgie Frisket Burg

Budgie Frisket

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:huh:  :o

someone get this man some pills!  :P

On a serious note, If Union Square fills up befor I get a chance to get a condo, Hillmount is a definate second choice :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Already have some pills, thank you very much. Hmm. That reminds me. We're due for a refill. :D

Seriously, my furniture won't fit in the little elevators. And if I want a condo on the sixth floor, that would be problematic. Plus, my furniture is used to high ceilings. It will feel somewhat pressed down from above and, believe me, you don't want to sit on a chair in the throes of a claustrophobic panic attack. Trust me on this.

But I did mention the idea to my furniture. Believe it or not, all the pieces were remarkably openminded.

Goes to show you. You can't judge a French provincial couch by its cover.

B.

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