Shockoe Bottom

[Wahoo 07]

3 hours ago, whw53 said:

Thanks for clarifying @Icetera.  I really want Shockoe Bottom to grow west and fill in these parking lots in the vicinity  - especially the stretch between 14th and 15th along Main.  This whole section of Shockoe is vastly under utilized and presents a real opportunity to tie Shockoe in with downtown.

 

Yes! I've been hoping for the slip/bottom to connect here.  Has the potential to be a destination.

[wrldcoupe4]

Half that block is owned by 1 family. Just have to get them to sell. Many have wanted to buy. 

[blopp1234]

Another lot in Shockoe along Main Street was just sold. Hopefully we get something of decent height since they paid 3 times it’s market value.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/11/19/half-acre-shockoe-bottom-lot-sells-to-mystery-buyer-for-1-9m/

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, blopp1234 said:

Another lot in Shockoe along Main Street was just sold. Hopefully we get something of decent height since they paid 3 times it’s market value.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/11/19/half-acre-shockoe-bottom-lot-sells-to-mystery-buyer-for-1-9m/

I think the location does not bode well for a tall building there...since it is along tobacco row...sort of.  I'd say at the most, 5-6 stories.

[rjp212]

Here is a rendering of a proposal back in 2018 for the location. 
 

http://www.fultzsingharchitects.com/east-main-street-mixed-use

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by rjp212

[Icetera]

4 hours ago, eandslee said:

I think the location does not bode well for a tall building there...since it is along tobacco row...sort of.  I'd say at the most, 5-6 stories.

It is away from housing owners (only rentals in the area) and especially Libby Hill.  There is also a new construction 8-story building on the same block with the older 8-story warehouse down the street so there may be more potential now, especially with the Pulse stop two blocks down.  I could see 10-12 floors fitting nicely here.

[I miss RVA]

16 minutes ago, Icetera said:

It is away from housing owners (only rentals in the area) and especially Libby Hill.  There is also a new construction 8-story building on the same block with the older 8-story warehouse down the street so there may be more potential now, especially with the Pulse stop two blocks down.  I could see 10-12 floors fitting nicely here.

It would be nice - but especially given all the historical/architechtural NIMBYs - and given the area, we may be hard pressed to see anything much above 8 stories (and I can easily see it being limited to 5 or 6 floors, unfortunately). I'd love something bigger though.

[Icetera]

37 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

especially given all the historical/architechtural NIMBYs

But that is the thing, unlike the TOD zoning of Broad (borders the Fan), Pear Street or Echo Harbor (at the base of Libby Hill), or zoning fight in Oregon Hill, the existing properties in and adjacent to this area are entirely owned by businesses, not residents.  Businesses want a higher concentration of residents in the area in order to generate customers.  Church Hill is the only concentration of NIMBYs and they are far enough from this site where their input should be less influential, unlike Echo Harbor and Tobacco Row proper.   It is also too small of a lot to get into the archeological issues that hinder development West of 18th.  Of any site in Shockoe Bottom, this one may have the best chance to achieve some height.

[eandslee]

32 minutes ago, Icetera said:

But that is the thing, unlike the TOD zoning of Broad (borders the Fan), Pear Street or Echo Harbor (at the base of Libby Hill), or zoning fight in Oregon Hill, the existing properties in and adjacent to this area are entirely owned by businesses, not residents.  Businesses want a higher concentration of residents in the area in order to generate customers.  Church Hill is the only concentration of NIMBYs and they are far enough from this site where their input should be less influential, unlike Echo Harbor and Tobacco Row proper.   It is also too small of a lot to get into the archeological issues that hinder development West of 18th.  Of any site in Shockoe Bottom, this one may have the best chance to achieve some height.

What about the NIMBYs on Church Hill complaining that a tall building in the bottom would ruin their view of the tall buildings downtown?  Sounds crazy, but I can see them doing it!

[Icetera]

24 minutes ago, eandslee said:

What about the NIMBYs on Church Hill complaining that a tall building in the bottom would ruin their view of the tall buildings downtown?  Sounds crazy, but I can see them doing it!

Shut up, ScottB!!

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

But that is the thing, unlike the TOD zoning of Broad (borders the Fan), Pear Street or Echo Harbor (at the base of Libby Hill), or zoning fight in Oregon Hill, the existing properties in and adjacent to this area are entirely owned by businesses, not residents.  Businesses want a higher concentration of residents in the area in order to generate customers.  Church Hill is the only concentration of NIMBYs and they are far enough from this site where their input should be less influential, unlike Echo Harbor and Tobacco Row proper.   It is also too small of a lot to get into the archeological issues that hinder development West of 18th.  Of any site in Shockoe Bottom, this one may have the best chance to achieve some height.

Good points, all! I just wonder though about the non-residential-association-specific NIMBY set, like Historic Richmond Foundation - they lose their you know what over someone wanting to so much as overturn a single brick in parts of town like this (or so it seems).

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

What about the NIMBYs on Church Hill complaining that a tall building in the bottom would ruin their view of the tall buildings downtown?  Sounds crazy, but I can see them doing it!

"But the schoo... " ... oh wait, wrong set of NIMBYs

[whw53]

Big news for Shockoe...city to purchase land south of Broad from the Loving Family..looks like an eminent domain action to set up the slave trade memorial.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/12/24/city-to-purchase-loving-land-for-shockoe-slavery-commemorative-site/

Mixed feelings with such a large footprint..originally hoping this would be restrained to west of tracts but I understand the sentiments and hopefully project will move fast and that it is state of the art. It would not benefit Shockoe to have anything less than a monumental public space next to the train station, plaza, and Broad St. But I'm wary land will linger.

Remaining land south of Broad east of 17th should be left for private mixed use development.



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[rjp212]

I've really got to stop reading comment sections for Facebook posts from RTD or Bizsense.  

"He's DESTROYED our city!"

It's a long vacant property that will be added to a memorial/park space. How is that bad?

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, rjp212 said:

I've really got to stop reading comment sections for Facebook posts from RTD or Bizsense.  

"He's DESTROYED our city!"

It's a long vacant property that will be added to a memorial/park space. How is that bad?

No added taxes for the city could be a possibility. 

[rjp212]

Maybe not direct property taxes, but it’s increased tourist dollars and typically surrounding areas will go up in value so their taxes increase.  

[DalWill]

On 12/24/2020 at 7:36 PM, rjp212 said:

I've really got to stop reading comment sections for Facebook posts from RTD or Bizsense.  

"He's DESTROYED our city!"

It's a long vacant property that will be added to a memorial/park space. How is that bad?

"He's DESTROYED our city!"

First of all,  who exactly are the referring to when they say "our"?

Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that I will fight anybody over Mayor Stoney, cause we never had anyone like him or her in Richmond politics.  I meant that.

Lastly,  comment sections are always a mess. I would be dramatic when I say that the raise my blood pressure when it's not really true (but they do offend me because it can be highly illogical).

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, DalWill said:

"He's DESTROYED our city!"

First of all,  who exactly are the referring to when they say "our"?

Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that I will fight anybody over Mayor Stoney, cause we never had anyone like him or her in Richmond politics.  I meant that.

Lastly,  comment sections are always a mess. I would be dramatic when I say that the raise my blood pressure when it's not really true (but they do offend me because it can be highly illogical).

Seems like the comments section of RBizSense, the Times-Dispatch, rva reddit and of course all the facebook stuff - simply NIMBY haven. They are the places where the NIMBY's go to kvetch, whine and moan.

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

 

On 12/26/2020 at 3:56 PM, I miss RVA said:

Seems like the comments section of RBizSense, the Times-Dispatch, rva reddit and of course all the facebook stuff - simply NIMBY haven. They are the places where the NIMBY's go to kvetch, whine and moan.

Kind of think otherwise for half of them, BizSense is pretty pro-development (makes sense, it's a business journal) and most NIMBY-ish comments get pretty heavily downvoted, and the RVA subreddit generally lampoons new developments in a mostly satirical way (see: South Park SoDoSoPa) but are mostly understanding that we need more housing to accelerate growth and services like grocery stores. But yeah, Facebook and RTD, pure hell for people who are pro-development

[Downtowner]

 
Kind of think otherwise for half of them, BizSense is pretty pro-development (makes sense, it's a business journal) and most NIMBY-ish comments get pretty heavily downvoted, and the RVA subreddit generally lampoons new developments in a mostly satirical way (see: South Park SoDoSoPa) but are mostly understanding that we need more housing to accelerate growth and services like grocery stores. But yeah, Facebook and RTD, pure hell for people who are pro-development

I second Facebook the worst site for anything development wise no matter what city you live in. Facebook is horrible with that. The rtd I haven’t looked at a comment in there in a long time. I hate the RTD new app they put out. There’s no longer a business section to click on on the app. You have to use the web browser to click on the business section of the RTD.


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[I miss RVA]

11 hours ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

 

Kind of think otherwise for half of them, BizSense is pretty pro-development (makes sense, it's a business journal) and most NIMBY-ish comments get pretty heavily downvoted, and the RVA subreddit generally lampoons new developments in a mostly satirical way (see: South Park SoDoSoPa) but are mostly understanding that we need more housing to accelerate growth and services like grocery stores. But yeah, Facebook and RTD, pure hell for people who are pro-development

I largely agree with your assessment.  RBizSense is indeed pro-development, pro-progress - and I'm sure I'm not the only one who jumps on there in the comments and downvotes the NIMBYs. On the RVA subreddit, while I do see quite a few of the folks from here (and we do try to provide details on that subreddit to clear up misconceptions about various projects), there are quite a few folks who simply aren't "in the know" and go on what they "hear" or "see" most likely via social media. So I would suggest there is an abundance of ignorance (not meant as a pejorative) regarding development there. Facebook and RTD are the worst of the worst -- the den of NIMBYs. Makes my blood boil sometimes - though I force myself to stomach the drivel that is offered there just so I can get some idea of how bad the NIMBYism really is.

[Icetera]

16 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who jumps on there in the comments and downvotes the NIMBYs.

I can assure you that you are not

[whw53]

Attorney: Loving family opposed to city acquiring Shockoe properties

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/01/13/attorney-loving-family-opposed-to-city-acquiring-shockoe-properties/

will circle back later with my thoughts but at any rate this will be ongoing story this year looks like   - Discuss!

[eandslee]

14 minutes ago, whw53 said:

Attorney: Loving family opposed to city acquiring Shockoe properties

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/01/13/attorney-loving-family-opposed-to-city-acquiring-shockoe-properties/

will circle back later with my thoughts but at any rate this will be ongoing story this year looks like   - Discuss!

Yeah, I read this article this morning and thought, “Well, well, well...this will be interesting!” [eating popcorn]

How could the city have just assumed they would get the Loving Family to sell them this land for “fair market value,” which you and I know...is NOT fair market value according to real estate prices today.  This screw up will derail this whole project.  Another project fail.  So, on to the next proposal for this land!

Edited January 13, 2021 by eandslee

[Wahoo 07]

13 minutes ago, whw53 said:

Attorney: Loving family opposed to city acquiring Shockoe properties

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/01/13/attorney-loving-family-opposed-to-city-acquiring-shockoe-properties/

will circle back later with my thoughts but at any rate this will be ongoing story this year looks like   - Discuss!

My prediction:  this takes years to sort out in the courts.  It ultimately goes to the Virginia Supreme Court, who decides in favor of the Loving family.  By then, the value of the land (due to massive development in Richmond) has increased to the point that, even if the city won, it would be cost prohibitive to acquire.  

If the city wins, there will be another long round of litigation to determine the price of land.

[wrldcoupe4]

While the project is important, is this really an appropriate application of eminent domain? I think the real issue is that it seems the city has botched the process of communication and upset the landowner.  They seem like a willing seller, so the city just needs to step up and pay them what it's worth. Would be ridiculous to have to go to court over this.