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Mid City (1501 Broadway, 8 acres on Broadway, 7 towers of 20-35 stories, 1.3 million sq. ft. office, 1,000 residential units, 150,000 sq. ft. commercial/retail)


markhollin

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59 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

+ @MLB2Nashville / @NashvilleStars please. 

That would be the wrong place for a baseball stadium. Do not take offence but,

Number 1. no parking

Number 2. pedestrian access sucks. imagine all the people walking across the I 40 ramps to get to the stadium. A death a game.

Number 3. not enough hotel rooms in that area

Number 4. traffic not well suited for umpteen thousand cars and people leaving that one location at one time. A disaster.

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20 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

 

That would be the wrong place for a baseball stadium. Do not take offence but,

Number 1. no parking

Number 2. pedestrian access sucks. imagine all the people walking across the I 40 ramps to get to the stadium. A death a game.

Number 3. not enough hotel rooms in that area

Number 4. traffic not well suited for umpteen thousand cars and people leaving that one location at one time. A disaster.

Their best bet for a downtown stadium is to hope they can work something out with the Titans as part of a redevelopment of the lots at Nissan. 

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1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

 

That would be the wrong place for a baseball stadium. Do not take offence but,

Number 1. no parking

Number 2. pedestrian access sucks. imagine all the people walking across the I 40 ramps to get to the stadium. A death a game.

Number 3. not enough hotel rooms in that area

Number 4. traffic not well suited for umpteen thousand cars and people leaving that one location at one time. A disaster.

Agreed 100%.

About the only advantage the Beaman location would have for a baseball stadium is the diamond could face downtown.  A baseball stadium on the east bank would have to face away from downtown because of the afternoon sun.  But that would be a small price to pay to have a baseball stadium adjacent to Nissan Stadium and Lower Broadway/2nd Ave.

Edited by jmtunafish
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Agreed with Mark's points above.  I'm not saying either situation is necessarily 100% ideal, but if Fenway Park in Boston and Wrigley Field in Chicago can make it work where they are, then Nashville has absolutely nothing to worry about.  Encase anyone needed a reminder, this is what the area around Wrigley Field looks like... not a parking lot, or highway, or major hotel in sight:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Chicago,+IL/@41.9478072,-87.6553285,865m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e2c3cd0f4cbed:0xafe0a6ad09c0c000!8m2!3d41.8781136!4d-87.6297982

 

Edited by BnaBreaker
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1 hour ago, markhollin said:

I disagree on all counts:

1) Plenty of parking within 10 blocks in every direction.  That's the way it works for nearly every downtown baseball stadium in any MLB city. In fact, very few have their own parking around their stadiums (Dodger Stadium and Anaheim Stadium in LA, Kauffman Stadium in KC,  Rangers stadium in Texas are about the only ones I can think of).  MLB fans make the pregame and postgame dinner/drinks, etc. at area eateries/bars part of the experience. 

2) Perhaps a few of the bridges could be fixed to provide wider sidewalks across the Broadway and Demonbreun overpasses. Maybe even create a pedestrian-only bridge connecting McGavock street on each side of the freeway. 

3) There are literally thousands of hotel rooms within 10 blocks.  Most MLB stadiums do not have a bunch of hotels  within a block of them. A host hotel could probably be built as part of a stadium complex on the site if a baseball village kind of development is undertaken as part of the project. The Reed site just to the north will most likely have at least one hotel.

4) Once again most urban MLB stadiums have traffic challenges, and that is why many people park numerous blocks away and walk.  If anything, being directly next to I-65/40 would be helpful to the situation...especially egress afterwards.  

I will go one further and say its never gonna happen. The above, especially number 2 would cost too much and the state would never pitch in and have it done in time. 

Beaman site 11.9 acres and not shaped right.. Only two stadiums have a  smaller  footprints, Wrigley & Fenway and they don't build them like that anymore. If a major league team builds, they will have to pay for it with ancillary  development.. The site does not work. Both of those cities have huge mass transit systems where parking is not needed.

Footprints with their parking

Atlanta Braves footprint 17.5 acres

Tampa Bay 69.5 acres

Florida Marlins 32 acres

Texas Rangers 91 acres not counting all the other lots surrounding the area.

Houston Astros 23 acres

  • Arizona Diamondbacks – Chase Field 24.5 acres
  • San Diego Padres – Petco Park (2016)  13.6 acres plus 11.5 acres of surface parking adjacent
  • Anaheim Angels – Angel Stadium of Anaheim  152 acres
  • San Francisco Giants – AT&T Park  11.8 acre plus another 14.3 acre surface lot across the inlet with a bridge connector
  • Oakland A’s – The Oakland Coliseum  93 acres
  • Seattle Mariners – Safeco Field  12.8 acres surrounded by lots and garages as well
  • Colorado Rockies – Coors Field  23.6 acres
  • Minnesota Twins – Target Field 25.3 acres
  • Kansas City Royals – Kauffman Stadium   247 acres (2 stadiums)
  • Milwaukee Brewers – Miller Park 98.5 acres
  • Chicago White Sox – US Cellular Field  92.2 acres
  • Chicago Cubs – Wriggly Field  9.86  acres  ( we are not Chicago)
  • Detroit Tigers – Comerica Park 24.5 acres
  • Cleveland Indians – Progressive Field  14.9 acres
  1. Toronto Blue Jays – Rogers Centre (1998)  17.5 acres
  2. Cincinnati Reds – Great American Ball Park, Cinergy Field  15.3 acres
  3.  
  4. St. Louis Cardinals – Busch Stadium 13.6 acres plus about another 30 acres of surface lots
  5. Washington Nationals – RFK (2006) & National’s Park  20.6 acres
  6. Baltimore Orioles – Oriole Park at Camden Yard  19.2 acres
  7. New York Yankees – New Yankee Stadium  18.3 acres NY even has a large garage next to the stadium
  8. New York Mets – Citi Field  62.7 acres
  9. Boston Red Sox – Fenway Park  9.49 acres we are not Boston nor Chicago both cities with huge mass transit systems where parking is not needed.
  10.  
  11. Pittsburg Pirates – PNC Park  36.7 acres
  12. Philadelphia Phillies – Citizens Bank Park  283 acres 2 stadiums

 

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22 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I will go one further and say its never gonna happen. The above, especially number 2 would cost too much and the state would never pitch in and have it done in time. 

Beaman site 11.9 acres and not shaped right.. Only two stadiums have a  smaller  footprints, Wrigley & Fenway and they don't build them like that anymore. If a major league team builds, they will have to pay for it with ancillary  development.. The site does not work. Both of those cities have huge mass transit systems where parking is not needed

I think the only possible way is a Joint Venture with Hines, where the stadium is on beaman site and ancillary development is Reed site across Broadway. Again, not likely, but I can dream!

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^^Assuming Bill Lee is still governor when all this happens, he minced no words in saying that the state will absolutely help bring MLB to Nashville.  Obviously, he couldn't talk specifics.  But if widening some sidewalks and adding crosswalks will make the difference, I bet the state will do its part.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/10/20/governor-bill-lee-nashville-push-mlb-team.html

 

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5 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Thats a whole lot larger than the site offered and no one is going to pay 120 to 150 million in land cost alone for a stadium in that location.

I say we end it here because it will never ever be considered at that location. Now we can call it a fantasy proposal which I am fine with, like the Midtown Village, but a serious proposal at that site is insane and the way stadiums are financed today, they will have to be part of a mixed use project to fund it. Again a stadium would be cost prohibited at that site due to land cost alone not to mention construction cost and soon you are approaching 3 to 400 million without a way to pay for it. Forty % or so  in land cost alone. You would need a billionare that just wanted to throw money away to build it there.

This is the south and people love their cars. Parking is a must. Fenway & Wrigley would fit, but Chicago & Boston population density make Nashville look like Farmville. I have seen the trains packed with fans going to a Cubs game. Thats why their is no parking. Same at Fenway during the world series in 2018, mass transit was packed for that too.

If we get MLB, it will be most likely on the east bank and part of a larger project in the 20 to 40 acre range. That would include retail, hotel, residential, etc and Metro will have very little financial skin in the game.

I actually would love it if the city, state, MLB owners and Titans owners got together and figured out a way to turn the east back Titans land into a Football Stadium / Baseball stadium / Mixed Use (retail, hotel, office, apartments, condos) area.  The Titans will soon need to consider either revamping their current stadium or building a new one…and it would be nice if all of that land were not just a stadium with a huge piece of asphalt.  I realize they need some asphalt for tailgating…but they could also have buildings with a lot of garage parking for games, as well.  Surely there’s a better, more urban way to develop that land to fit both sports (NFL and MLB) and also interject some urbanity into it.

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The fact that the Haslam family has more money than God could be what makes a site like this happen.  The Nashville Stars group is putting together a quality team of board members and investors, so there could be even more private funding on the way.  

Also bear in mind that in the past 20 years there have been other downtown MLB parks built in San Diego, Seattle, San Fran, Houston, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Detroit, Washington DC,  Pittsburgh, Miami, etc.  And I can guarantee you that the relative cost of land in those markets was more than this section of Midtown in Nashville.   Where there is a will, there is a way.  

This is one of only a few quality locations in the center city area, and I am simply saying that it should/will be considered, that's all.  

 

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6 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I will bet you a cup of coffee it will not be considered as it will be off market before that time ever gets here.:tw_glasses: I still love you Mark! Hudson will be on the land for another three years, but that will not keep Beaman from selling the land while Hudson leases.

I don't drink coffee, and I don't gamble.   ; )  

But I still say there is most likely a lot of talk going on behind the scenes to which we are not privy between Beaman and various entities, and I would not be the least bit surprised if the MLB group is one of them.   

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5 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I know you are wanting the last word, but here is the proposal the Music City Baseball has for the East bank. Well this proposal is 25 acres. They are going to do a mixed use development with this project to make it work. Even if you take the entire block it only equals a little over 17 acres.

music city baseball.png

I still say the best place for this project is the area between the railroad viaduct and First Street/Spring Street/Jefferson Street. Helps clean up more of the East Bank while the extra parking can be used for commuters during the week and Honky Tonk goers on the weekends.

Expand the vision.

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Who is to say the the MLB group wouldn't be looking at also buying-up the Comfort Inn site and other lots south of Demonbreun along the freeway for part of a baseball village? Or perhaps they might go into partnership with the Reed site on the north side of Broadway for some elements?

One of the issues with the PSC Metals site is that if you were to build the stadium with the stands facing towards downtown, the batters would be looking straight into the sunset which is a no-no (MLB will not allow that for player safety issues).  If the stadium were facing towards Donelson or East Nashville that would be incredibly dull, and lousy panoramas for TV broadcasts.  

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6 hours ago, bnacincy said:

I still say the best place for this project is the area between the railroad viaduct and First Street/Spring Street/Jefferson Street. Helps clean up more of the East Bank while the extra parking can be used for commuters during the week and Honky Tonk goers on the weekends.

Expand the vision.

Do you have an aerial shot of this land? Thanks

5 hours ago, titanhog said:

I just wish the scrapyard would sell.  If I had a choice between the scrapyard selling or Beaman selling…I’d take the scrapyard 100/100.  That land would also be great for a ballpark.

I know the deal Mayor Cooper "scrapped" was a deal where the city would provide land for PSC to relocate, and PSC would get development rights on the scrapyard. 

I guess it's possible if Haslam joined MusicCityBaseball/NashvilleStars, he could also get Icahn to get ownership of the MLB team and part of the development revenue, all for no equity investment, just the land. 

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1 hour ago, markhollin said:

One of the issues with the PSC Metals site is that if you were to build the stadium with the stands facing towards downtown, the batters would be looking straight into the sunset which is a no-no (MLB will not allow that for player safety issues).  If the stadium were facing towards Donelson or East Nashville that would be incredibly dull, and lousy panoramas for TV broadcasts.  

MusicCityBaseball's East Bank proposal was to build a retractable roof to block the sun. 

Here is also an angle where we could avoid the sun (I believe)

image.thumb.png.47c7fc5a45b387392d68e934b96f3427.png

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