Station East (1,400 residential units, 600 hotel rooms, 1.2 million sq. ft. office, 225,000 sq. ft. retail; numerous 15-30 story towers on 18 acres)

[MontanaGuy]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Everything on the East Bank is in a flood zone. I cant remember how far the water went but I know the Titans stadium had issues. I will take a look at the photos from the flood.

Wasn't there a lot of talk about some kind of wall or barrier of some sort in the downtown area for flooding a few years ago?  I seem to remember that but don't recall if any plan was ever developed that would protect downtown in case we had another event like we had in 2010.  Now that we've got the Four Seasons project and others nearby that are at risk and probably more to come if the plans on this thread ever materialize that's a lot of expensive real estate that's very vulnerable. 

[downtownresident]

Just now, MontanaGuy said:

Wasn't there a lot of talk about some kind of wall or barrier of some sort in the downtown area for flooding a few years ago?  I seem to remember that but don't recall if any plan was ever developed that would protect downtown in case we had another event like we had in 2010.  Now that we've got the Four Seasons project and others nearby that are at risk and probably more to come if the plans on this thread ever materialize that's a lot of expensive real estate that's very vulnerable. 

It was for the West Bank, and would’ve protected Sobro/Broadway

[titanhog]

42 minutes ago, MontanaGuy said:

Wasn't there a lot of talk about some kind of wall or barrier of some sort in the downtown area for flooding a few years ago?  I seem to remember that but don't recall if any plan was ever developed that would protect downtown in case we had another event like we had in 2010.  Now that we've got the Four Seasons project and others nearby that are at risk and probably more to come if the plans on this thread ever materialize that's a lot of expensive real estate that's very vulnerable. 

It was voted down.  But...if you'll notice along the sidewalk at the park and amphitheater...they went ahead and included what appears to be the "posts" that would have held the walls...at least in that portion of the proposed wall.

 

[Armacing]

The area where the Four Seasons is rising now was also flooded, wasn't it?

[LA_TN]

1 minute ago, Armacing said:

The area where the Four Seasons is rising now was also flooded, wasn't it?

Very much

[smeagolsfree]

Here is one shot of the East side that tells the story:

The area to the left of the large building center screen is the TA truck stop.

 

[MLBrumby]

Yikes!!  I assume that's from 2010. Will happen again sooner than later, absent a flood wall/levee. How might a developer build to account for more flooding in the future?  I'm still amazed at the prices those parcels are being sold for. 

I recall the proposal from a few years back to have a 'flood' canal (a'la San Antonio's) near I-24 to divert overflow from the Cumberland. I can see now how that might be needed. 

[Armacing]

On 10/3/2020 at 9:06 AM, MLBrumby said:

 How might a developer build to account for more flooding in the future? 

The front lobby awning should be designed to double as a boat dock. 

[henburg]

This may be a misunderstanding of the 2010 flood, but wasn't that considered a pretty freak occurrence? I remember it was even frequently called a "100 year flood" as in an event like that could only happen once every century, along with being worsened due to a mistake with the handling of the dams/levees. I understand that flooding is to be expected there, but I'm not sure about it reaching the extent of 2010.

Again, I'm not positive on that, but it's how I remember it. I'd definitely appreciate anybody with better insight on the subject. 

[MLBrumby]

Seem to have heard the same, and made worse by mismanagement of two dams upriver from downtown. Regardless, I'm aware that the east bank has flooded several times in the past 50 years. 

[titanhog]

One thing is for certain:  if they continue to build 100+ Million $ buildings along both sides of the river, they'll have to eventually figure out some type of flood abatement.

[markhollin]

According to records, there have been major floods along the Cumberland in Nashville in 1847, 1902, 1927,  1937, 1948, 1951, 1975, and, of course, 2010. 

Terms like "100 Year Flood" and "500 Year Flood" are kind of absurd, because there's no rhyme or reason to weather patterns (or lack thereof).

[Craiger]

There also were no mismanaged dams. There was bad communication of necessary dam releases that were performed to keep those dams being dams instead of an open river. 

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, Craiger said:

There also were no mismanaged dams. There was bad communication of necessary dam releases that were performed to keep those dams being dams instead of an open river. 

isn't that mismanaging dams though? In other words, if better communication was had, would the Cumberland still had flooded in the downtown and east bank area?

[Craiger]

25 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

isn't that mismanaging dams though? In other words, if better communication was had, would the Cumberland still had flooded in the downtown and east bank area?

No. If better communication was had, the city and hopefully it’s residents would have known sooner that they were going to be flooded. They had to release from the dams or the dams were going to overtop. Overtopping dams fail. The choice was between letting a lot of water out or a high risk of ALL the water.

There was a long report on this from the Army Corps and NWS. Generally when I reference it, folks just say it was a cover up because they just don’t want to believe that 20 inches of rain can cause catastrophic flooding of their city. 

[ruraljuror]

16 hours ago, henburg said:

This may be a misunderstanding of the 2010 flood, but wasn't that considered a pretty freak occurrence? I remember it was even frequently called a "100 year flood" as in an event like that could only happen once every century, along with being worsened due to a mistake with the handling of the dams/levees. I understand that flooding is to be expected there, but I'm not sure about it reaching the extent of 2010.

Again, I'm not positive on that, but it's how I remember it. I'd definitely appreciate anybody with better insight on the subject. 

The term 100 year flood just means that there's a 1% chance that a flood of that degree could happen in any given year. Similarly, a 1,000 year flood means that event has a 1 in 1,000 chance of happening in any given year.  

That said, I don't know how regularly these calculations are updated to account for new data (my assumption is that it doesn't happen very regularly) and even if the data is regularly updated it's still heavily weighted toward historical data that may not reflect our current climate. There are places in Texas that have had a few 500 year floods just in the last decade or so I believe, for example. 

[smeagolsfree]

The occurrence of these floods will depend if you believe that climate change is real or not. Take the evidence and come to your own conclusion. 

[Armacing]

On 10/7/2020 at 8:29 AM, smeagolsfree said:

The occurrence of these floods will depend if you believe that climate change is real or not. Take the evidence and come to your own conclusion. 

A large number of people think that the climate is always changing, regardless of human activity.

On the Cumberland River and flooding:  Accurate records have only been kept for roughly 200 years - which on a geologic time scale is a data point of 1.  We simply haven't been observing the river long enough to come to any conclusions about how often it floods like in 2010, and the flood event itself really isn't impactful enough to leave discernable geologic records.  A couple days of high water doesn't really do anything to a forest, so it's not like we can dig into the ground and look for layers of silt deposited by previous mega floods.

The simple fact is the river can flood at any time and people should have insurance policies to cover the loss if they choose to build there. 

 

[smeagolsfree]

The SP was approved by Planning last week on consent.

 

2020SP-047-001 111 N 1ST ST Council District 05 (Sean Parker) Staff Reviewer: Amelia Lewis A request to rezone from IR to SP zoning for property located at 111 N 1st Street, at the northeast corner of James Robertson Parkway and N 1st Street (16.72 acres), to permit a mixed use development, requested by Hastings Architecture, applicant; HPT TA Properties Trust, owner. MPC Action: Approve with conditions and disapprove without all conditions. (7-0)

[Bos2Nash]

Reading through the staff report from the 11/12 planning meeting, a preliminary traffic study was submitted with the SP. The traffic study took the following program into account for the development:

• 1,425 Residential Units
• 1,050,000 SF of Office space
• 135,000 SF of Commerical space
• 640 Hotel rooms
• The SP would include all uses allowed under MUI-A zoning along with Microbrewery, tasting room, light manufacturing, artisan manufacturing, artisan distllery and theatre. I dont think this is a total indication of use within the commerical space, but it is worth noting that these were specifcally requested in the SP.

The documents also provided a little bit of information on the greenway that will bisecty the property from N. 1st Street to the eastern propoerty line. A more detailed study will have to be submitted prior to final SP approval. Also, the Development will need to contribute $66,825 to the East Nashville Backbones bikeway project (yay for Bikes!!). It looks like this proposal will be generous with sidewalks (10'-0" wide along N. 1st) and will include bike lanes. 

I've gone ahead and attached the staff report section for this development for anyone to go through. 

111 North First Street - 11-12 Meeting Notes.pdf

[smeagolsfree]

I missed that Craig.  Great catch as this passed on consent and there was no discussion. I wish more projects would pass like that. 

 

Looking at the numbers I would guess three high-rise residential buildings/ 2 office buildings & 2 hotels. Now they could go more and less tall, but that is a guess based on the size of the property and that was my first guess to start with was around 7 to 8 high-rise buildings.

[OnePointEast]

So is this development a possibility, and if so, how far out before we see any meaningful prep work or excavation?

[smeagolsfree]

According to the news release a couple of months ago,  they want to start sometime in 2022. I spoke to Bos2Nas and it takes about a year to get the final SP through planning.

[OnePointEast]

Wow. That's crazy. I thought this was only a pipe dream.

Edited December 2, 2020 by OnePointEast

[titanhog]

Let me ask you guys this:  With all of this being in a “flood plain”…so to speak…do you just make sure to build everything with a garage underneath to minimize flood damage in the future?  It’s not like they’re going to build on 10 foot pads, are they?

Edited December 2, 2020 by titanhog