City Center / Virginia BioTech Park

[I miss RVA]

18 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Yeah, I remember being very excited about the original City Center project until it died.  What made me most excited was that the location was so prominent in the skyline - anything over 15-20 stories would probably appear so tall and would be seen for miles!  Can’t believe this parcel has gone absolutely nowhere. There was a small quadrant in this parcel that wasn’t part of the deal, which made it “difficult” to design something that would work. 

I forget exactly what it was that ultimately led to the demise of this project. Was it the city dragging its feet in selling the parcel to the developers? I recall there was some hang up about the preservation aspect of the old garage at 6th and Franklin - I believe there was pushback to get the developer to not raze the old garage but to integrate the façade into the overall building, which, OF COURSE, was going to be more expensive for the developer. If I recall, I think the guts of parking structure itself HAD to be razed because it's way out of date and the garage has problems handling the size of modern vehicles.

Either way - the USUAL hiccup that seems to be the deathknell for RVA projects - INEXORABLE DELAYS - happened with this, and either something happened with the economy or the financing fell through. Something along those lines. But it goes back to what I said a couple of days ago, particularly involving ANY project in which the city itself is involved:

"You're VERY Richmond if you sit and wait on potentially huge projects long enough that the economy changes and becomes unfavorable enough to no longer support the kind of significant development that could have been built."

Edited December 31, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

Too bad this isn’t happening here in our location and worry about the competition moving forward.

It mentions trying to rival the research triangle in NC, which, with the deep pockets of UVa, they can pull this off.

UVa unveils plans for new $300 million biotech institute

https://dailyprogress.com/news/uva/uva-unveils-plans-for-new-300-million-biotech-institute/article_d9e55482-9855-11ed-bcc4-fbeb330d581e.html
https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/uva-unveils-plans-for-new-300-million-biotech-institute/article_ac6b8353-3650-52bf-93f1-fc6ab71818de.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

[I miss RVA]

39 minutes ago, Hike said:

Too bad this isn’t happening here in our location and worry about the competition moving forward.

It mentions trying to rival the research triangle in NC, which, with the deep pockets of UVa, they can pull this off.

UVa unveils plans for new $300 million biotech institute

https://dailyprogress.com/news/uva/uva-unveils-plans-for-new-300-million-biotech-institute/article_d9e55482-9855-11ed-bcc4-fbeb330d581e.html
https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/uva-unveils-plans-for-new-300-million-biotech-institute/article_ac6b8353-3650-52bf-93f1-fc6ab71818de.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

Agreed - too bad this isn't happening here. UVa might just have what it takes to make it work! 

[Hike]

Just now, I miss RVA said:

Agreed - too bad this isn't happening here. UVa might just have what it takes to make it work! 

I think that too, the only flaw is their access, the roads are tight and congested already and not an easy way out of that with the mountain perimeter.

[eandslee]

4 minutes ago, Hike said:

I think that too, the only flaw is their access, the roads are tight and congested already and not an easy way out of that with the mountain perimeter.

The only metropolitan flow goes east toward Richmond. The larger airport, the bigger city offerings (i.e. shopping), plus Richmond’s slow migration westward, etc.  At least Charlottesville is only about 45-50 minutes drive from Richmond’s west end.  I’m actually happy this is happening at my alma mater.   Go Hoos!

[Hike]

1 minute ago, eandslee said:

The only metropolitan flow goes east toward Richmond. The larger airport, the bigger city offerings (i.e. shopping), plus Richmond’s slow migration westward, etc.  At least Charlottesville is only about 45-50 minutes drive from Richmond’s west end.  I’m actually happy this is happening at my alma mater.   Go Hoos!

Just being a home town fan and yes, proximity is good for RVA and these two are inching closer all the time, we’ll become the residential area for it among other potential opportunities. 

[I miss RVA]

16 minutes ago, Hike said:

Just being a home town fan and yes, proximity is good for RVA and these two are inching closer all the time, we’ll become the residential area for it among other potential opportunities. 

Metro Richmond's western migration might actually be enhanced by these developments in Charlottesville.  PLUS - given the already established biotech industry that's flourishing in Richmond (both downtown and in the suburbs) I wonder if there might not be some synergy that may develop between the two research communities.

[Hike]

8 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Metro Richmond's western migration might actually be enhanced by these developments in Charlottesville.  PLUS - given the already established biotech industry that's flourishing in Richmond (both downtown and in the suburbs) I wonder if there might not be some synergy that may develop between the two research communities.

That’s a good point but depends on whether it’s affiliated with VCU here locally. These two medical schools are very competitive and wonder if they would work together, my gut says no.  As for places to live in the west end that could house some of the crew and commuter traffic,  this development is very far along and looks like a ski resort, I’ll try to get some pictures of this, it’s beautiful and right off 288 and Patterson Ave. 

https://www.apartments.com/the-collective-west-creek-richmond-va/ypb3jfv/

Edited January 21, 2023 by Hike

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

That’s a good point but depends on whether it’s affiliated with VCU here locally. These two medical schools are very competitive and wonder if they would work together, my gut says no.  As for places to live in the west end that could house some of crew, this development is very far along and looks like a ski resort, I’ll try to get some pictures of this, it’s beautiful and right off 288 and Patterson Ave. 

https://www.apartments.com/the-collective-west-creek-richmond-va/ypb3jfv/

Duke and UNC (and for that matter N.C. State) are fierce rivals as schools (not just in athletic) - and yet the synergy in the Triangle that is Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill is off the scale. It's been the fire-breathing-dragon of an engine that has brought EXPLOSIVE growth and development to the RDU region over the past 30, 40, even 50 years. If they can do it, no reason we can't do it here as well.

Edited January 21, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

8 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Duke and UNC are fierce rivals as schools (not just in athletic) - and yet the synergy in the Triangle that is Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill is off the scale. It's been the fire-breathing-dragon of an engine that has brought EXPLOSIVE growth and development to the RDU region over the past 30, 40, even 50 years. If they can do it, no reason we can't do it here as well.

Yes, that is true and hope these 2 universities don’t listen to me. 

[I miss RVA]

51 minutes ago, Hike said:

Yes, that is true and hope these 2 universities don’t listen to me. 

From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! 

[Hike]

7 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! 

I think what I was confusing is the competition between the two universities for medical students. Having a family member that’s a teaching surgeon at VCU, the rivalry he describes between the two exists.

[Wahoo 07]

One potential benefit that hasn't been discussed is transportation.   Should the biotech center become the economic driver the article says it could be, it will give a boost to the planned intra-Commonwealth train system.  

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

One potential benefit that hasn't been discussed is transportation.   Should the biotech center become the economic driver the article says it could be, it will give a boost to the planned intra-Commonwealth train system.  

Absolutely!! This 'marriage' between biotech in Charlottesville and Richmond is something that the state and regional transportation powers that be should keep a close eye on and use as impetus to push for additional funding for the Commonwealth Corridor - which really would be a HUGE deal for Richmond, reestablishing it as the state's true rail hub. Hopefully this would be an additional catalyst toward getting funding to replace the bridge that would carry rail traffic south across the river out of downtown - thereby making the connection between Norfolk and Main Street Station a reality.

Edited January 21, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

4 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Absolutely!! This 'marriage' between biotech in Charlottesville and Richmond is something that the state and regional transportation powers that be should keep a close eye on and use as impetus to push for additional funding for the Commonwealth Corridor - which really would be a HUGE deal for Richmond, reestablishing it as the state's true rail hub.

Love the idea, hopefully I can see it from my urn on the mantle.

[eandslee]

Found this article with this amazing quote from Maritza Pechin on City Center:

“The Convention center is a partner and sits on the EDA’s evaluation panel because they want a hotel that has at least 500 if not 1,000 rooms,” explained Maritza Pechin, the deputy director of the Office of Equitable Development. “The Convention Center is only 40% occupied even in good years because there are not enough hotels in town.”

Never heard that the Convention Center wanted a hotel with a room count as high as 1000 rooms!  That could be a tall hotel!!

Not really in favor of the gist of the article since putting houses back in that area of town is not the best (and profitable) use of the land for the City…in my opinion.  Too much has changed since the 1950s.  

https://ggwash.org/view/88088/richmond-destroyed-a-black-neighborhood-to-build-its-coliseum-will-the-citys-redevelopment-plans-for-the-site-include-reparations-to-displaced-families

[ancientcarpenter]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:42 PM, eandslee said:

Found this article with this amazing quote from Maritza Pechin on City Center:

“The Convention center is a partner and sits on the EDA’s evaluation panel because they want a hotel that has at least 500 if not 1,000 rooms,” explained Maritza Pechin, the deputy director of the Office of Equitable Development. “The Convention Center is only 40% occupied even in good years because there are not enough hotels in town.”

Never heard that the Convention Center wanted a hotel with a room count as high as 1000 rooms!  That could be a tall hotel!!

Not really in favor of the gist of the article since putting houses back in that area of town is not the best (and profitable) use of the land for the City…in my opinion.  Too much has changed since the 1950s.  

https://ggwash.org/view/88088/richmond-destroyed-a-black-neighborhood-to-build-its-coliseum-will-the-citys-redevelopment-plans-for-the-site-include-reparations-to-displaced-families

That would be amazing.... and smart business move. That would attract top events if they can say "we can AT LEAST house 1000 rooms on site and next door we have hotels left and right for you to use." I can imagine major national headlining events coming here. Restaurants and shops would be popping up all over the place on that "ghost town" of Broad St.

 

I was just curious how tall a 1000 room could be: The Venetian Mocao hotel in Vegas is 40 stories tall and has 3000 rooms. Therefore, we would be talking somewhere around 15 additional stories added to the Convention Center!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venetian_Macao

Fun list of biggest hotels in the world if anyone is curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hotels

Edited February 6, 2023 by ancientcarpenter

[123fakestreet]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:42 PM, eandslee said:

“The Convention center is a partner and sits on the EDA’s evaluation panel because they want a hotel that has at least 500 if not 1,000 rooms,” explained Maritza Pechin, the deputy director of the Office of Equitable Development. “The Convention Center is only 40% occupied even in good years because there are not enough hotels in town.”

 

Here's what a 1000 room hotel looks like: https://austin.culturemap.com/news/real-estate/10-26-14-fairmont-austin-downtown-luxury-hotel-secures-financing-construction-ground-breaking-date/

That said this is Richmond. They want 500-1000, we'll end up with 550, if we get anything at all.  That said it will still be a nice addition to downtown.  The Hilton only has 250 rooms, the Marriot has 400 rooms, so bigger than that.

[Icetera]

23 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

Here's what a 1000 room hotel looks like: https://austin.culturemap.com/news/real-estate/10-26-14-fairmont-austin-downtown-luxury-hotel-secures-financing-construction-ground-breaking-date/

That said this is Richmond. They want 500-1000, we'll end up with 550, if we get anything at all.  That said it will still be a nice addition to downtown.  The Hilton only has 250 rooms, the Marriot has 400 rooms, so bigger than that.

This is a better comparison as the Venetian has a massive footprint.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, 123fakestreet said:

Here's what a 1000 room hotel looks like: https://austin.culturemap.com/news/real-estate/10-26-14-fairmont-austin-downtown-luxury-hotel-secures-financing-construction-ground-breaking-date/

That said this is Richmond. They want 500-1000, we'll end up with 550, if we get anything at all.  That said it will still be a nice addition to downtown.  The Hilton only has 250 rooms, the Marriot has 400 rooms, so bigger than that.

THIS is what I'd like to see downtown! I think you're right - we'll end up with something like 550 rooms - but Maritza Pechin is on point - why NOT aim for a 1,000-room facility? Why NOT push for it? If we aim for 550 rooms, we'll get 250-300, guaranteed. If we aim for 1,000 - maybe we don't get a thousand rooms - but maybe we get 600! We HAVE to try!

[eandslee]

5 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

THIS is what I'd like to see downtown! I think you're right - we'll end up with something like 550 rooms - but Maritza Pechin is on point - why NOT aim for a 1,000-room facility? Why NOT push for it? If we aim for 550 rooms, we'll get 250-300, guaranteed. If we aim for 1,000 - maybe we don't get a thousand rooms - but maybe we get 600! We HAVE to try!

Actually, Maritza is only repeating what the Convention Center says they want. I’d have to go back and look at the language to be sure, but I think RFP may say something to the effect of a hotel with at least 500 rooms (meaning there could be more?).  We’ll see what the developers come back with soon enough.  Just saying, a 30-story hotel would be awesome in that very prominent location of downtown.   You’d be able to see it from miles and miles away!

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Actually, Maritza is only repeating what the Convention Center says they want. I’d have to go back and look at the language to be sure, but I think RFP may say something to the effect of a hotel with at least 500 rooms (meaning there could be more?).  We’ll see what the developers come back with soon enough.  Just saying, a 30-story hotel would be awesome in that very prominent location of downtown.   You’d be able to see it from miles and miles away!

True - I DO seem to recall that she is echoing the Convention Center's stated need. And yes, I also take "at-least 500" rooms to mean that 500 is the baseline - and that indeed, "more" is certainly in play. "How much" more is the question. And we know that RVA's bugaboo seems always to be - "market size". Is the GRCC actually doing that much bang-up business to lure a developer and a major brand hotel to come in a build a 1,000-room behemoth? OMG - I also would love it! But how realistic is it?

Again - as Maritza has said - why NOT?! Mind you, from having earned a minor in urban and regional planning in undergrad (my major was in journalism) I do recall it being drilled into my head that urban planners and actual on-the-ground CRE developers don't always (if EVER) see eye-to-eye on things. The planner types (and I count myself ideologically as a 'planner type') are the dreamers. The CRE developers are the doers. And we know where the money goes. And whereas the city planning commission can absolutely advocate for and greenlight a 30-story, 1,000-room Hyatt Regency or Grand Hyatt or pick your upscale brand of choice, and tout it as the second coming of the new-and-improved wheel, whether or not the hotelier and the actual developer (and any/all investors/financiers) will view it the same way and be willing to pony up the shekels necessary to make it happen is another story. As our CRE gurus hammer home so often - for RVA it's all about "market size" (well, ANY city, really - but we more-often-than-not draw the short straw when it comes to "market size" because we're NOT a metropolitan Washington with a population of 5.5 million - large enough that they not only get the pick of the litter, but they have the cats bringing the whole damn litter TO them from which to choose!)

For us... at 1.3-to-1.4 million in the metro - if we get more than runt of the litter, we're doing a Snoopy dance. But I digress.

Dunno - @eandslee-- you KNOW I'd love to see it. It's needed. For sure the city seems to want it as one of the centerpieces of City Center - at least the first phase thereof. We shall see, I suppose.

Edited February 7, 2023 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/02/10/city-takes-back-public-safety-building-property-after-development-stalls/

 

A downtown development that had been planned to include a VCU Health-anchored tower appears to be dead, as the City of Richmond has taken back the Public Safety Building property it had sold to a private firm for the multimillion-dollar project.

It isn’t clear from the documents what led to the project not moving forward. The scaled-down development plan submitted last year made no mention of VCU still being involved, though a spokesperson at the time said VCU remained committed to the project.

Requests to the city and VCU for comment resulted in a joint response provided by VCU. The statement referred to a “new plan” for the site that the university and the city would be pursuing in keeping with VCU’s master plan.

[eandslee]

I really have concerns that this developer can even deliver for Henrico at this point. 
 

On another note, I’m glad the truncated version of this project is not moving forward.  I think it’s worth it to wait for something spectacular for that block, which I think VCU wants to do too.  Sounds like the  short version of this development just wasn’t doing it for VCU - they envision a gateway to the medical center there and what was proposed didn’t do that for them.  

[wrldcoupe4]

3 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I really have concerns that this developer can even deliver for Henrico at this point. 
 

Was thinking the same thing.