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City Center / Virginia BioTech Park


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3 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I really have concerns that this developer can even deliver for Henrico at this point. 
 

On another note, I’m glad the truncated version of this project is not moving forward.  I think it’s worth it to wait for something spectacular for that block, which I think VCU wants to do too.  Sounds like the  short version of this development just wasn’t doing it for VCU - they envision a gateway to the medical center there and what was proposed didn’t do that for them.  

I came here to basically say the exact same thing after looking at RBS this morning. This is definitely a positive. Let's get something significant here instead of blah...

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I don’t think we will ever see anything there. 

That whole area is a very hard sell.  Whatever you build  has to be self sustainable . There is no residential population near it from which to draw.  There is a lot of foot traffic during the day but people seeking medical treatment and those visiting people in the hospital isn’t a great base with which to support a business.  
 

It will have to be a single use building, like a hospital.  But how much bed space does VCU Medical Center honestly need?  Apparently not much seeing as how plans for the larger hospital building were scrapped. There’s no demand for office space.  It’s a miserable location for residential and the hospital is only a regional draw, people go home after visiting hours are over so there’s no real need for a hotel. 
 

Government and hospital building are the only safe bets and there’s no demand for either of those for the foreseeable future. 

Edited by Brent114
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Ever is a long time, though I do agree that unless its VCU doing it we probably won't see anything there for quite a while. That being said, when the city center plan swings into full gear I could see that being absorbed into the plan or at least it will increase the residential population of that area enough to make some development there more realistic.

I am extremely glad we didn't get that truncated building though, I'm speaking purely out of "feeling" but that new short building looked terrible when compared to the 20 story tower that was originally planned for that parcel.

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Technically, this parcel is already part of the overall City Center district as laid out by the City Center Small Area Plan. The the RFP a few months ago went out for a very constricted portion - the Coliseum, Blues Amory, Convention Center area portion - should not be viewed as being all-inclusive of the overall scope of City Center. This first RFP request is simply for Phase 1. Block D was always part of the overall district, going back to the Navy Hill proposal. Keep in mind that City Center essentially kept almost all of the elements of Navy Hill, with the exception of the Coliseum. Block D was to be the eastern anchor to the district, linking it directly to the VCU medical district. 

While I'm glad the city pulled this back (at least we have a better chance of a much better development than the Capital Cities truncated plan), I am concerned - like @eandslee& @wrldcoupe4if these folks can deliver in Henrico, considering they have a major iron in the fire with Green City and a smaller one heating up, I believe, in Westwood.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Weren’t we supposed to hear something about the City Center project in February?  Perhaps, I’m mistaken or whatever the February 20th(?) deadline was for was for something that wouldn’t be announced?  Am I missing something?  If not…will the next time we hear something be when the chosen developer is announced?  I wonder how long from that point we will see shovels hit the dirt?   I also want to see a rendering. 

Just as an aside, I saw that Raleigh also has a plan to build a 500-room hotel next to its convention center (coupled with a convention center expansion).  Originally, it was to accompany a really tall mixed use tower (the darker tower), but that may no longer be on the table.   Looks like Raleigh’s 500-room hotel is proposed to be about 30-some odd stories (hard to count them).
 

https://raleighmag.com/2022/03/500-room-hotel-being-built-in-raleigh/

The white tower is the proposed hotel:

 

A6047014-93CD-495A-B872-CF3650E68ADD.jpeg

EC9B9588-E385-40F2-BF6B-A6695B7F193A.jpeg

Edited by eandslee
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2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Weren’t we supposed to hear something about the City Center project in February?  Perhaps, I’m mistaken or whatever the February 20th(?) deadline was for was for something that wouldn’t be announced?  Am I missing something?  If not…will the next time we hear something be when the chosen developer is announced?  I wonder how long from that point we will see shovels hit the dirt?   I also want to see a rendering. 

Just as an aside, I saw that Raleigh also has a plan to build a 500-room hotel next to its convention center (coupled with a convention center expansion).  Originally, it was to accompany a really tall mixed use tower (the darker tower), but that may no longer be on the table.   Looks like Raleigh’s 500-room hotel is proposed to be about 30-some odd stories (hard to count them).
 

https://raleighmag.com/2022/03/500-room-hotel-being-built-in-raleigh/

The white tower is the proposed hotel:

 

A6047014-93CD-495A-B872-CF3650E68ADD.jpeg

EC9B9588-E385-40F2-BF6B-A6695B7F193A.jpeg

It's a worthwhile question, particularly since the Diamond District has taken - and continues to take - most of the oxygen that it shares with City Center. 

@RVABizSenseMike by chance have you heard anything about any movement at all with City Center?

As to the size of the RDU hotel - so if it's hitting the 30-floor range at 500 rooms - makes me wonder what a 1,000-roomer in RVA would look like? (1,000 rooms if Maritza Pechin were to get her way, that is!)

As for that taller, darker building perhaps no longer in the works in downtown RDU - what on earth would it take to get a similar-sized structure built in downtown RVA? Maybe on Broad Street between 6th & 7th (in the footprint of the north-half of the old Thalhimer's flagship store) - or on Broad between 4th and 5th? (same side of Broad)? Mixed-use, of course, so as not to rely too much (if at all) on even a scintilla of spec office space.

Other than grow the city's population by about, oh, 200,000 (and get to, say 430,000) and the metro by about a million (and get to 2.4 million) - what do we need to do get get one of these bad boys downtown?

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On 3/4/2023 at 10:32 PM, I miss RVA said:

It's a worthwhile question, particularly since the Diamond District has taken - and continues to take - most of the oxygen that it shares with City Center. 

@RVABizSenseMike by chance have you heard anything about any movement at all with City Center?

 

Not a ton. I'd expect an announcement of finalists sometime this spring, but that's just me reading tea leaves/following the script for the Diamond District RFP. 

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On 3/4/2023 at 8:12 PM, eandslee said:

Looks like Raleigh’s 500-room hotel is proposed to be about 30-some odd stories (hard to count them).

If Wikipedia is accurate and up-to-date, that thing would be 40 stories/530 feet. Assuming that's the case, our board's rule of thumb would nevertheless come down like an anvil, so we'd be looking at 400ish, tops.

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29 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

Assuming that's the case, our board's rule of thumb would nevertheless come down like an anvil...

so we'd be looking at 400ish, tops.

1.) Yep - unfortunately, it likely would.

2.) Sadly, this is true. Maritza Pechin won't like that, though.

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1 hour ago, Flood Zone said:

If Wikipedia is accurate and up-to-date, that thing would be 40 stories/530 feet. Assuming that's the case, our board's rule of thumb would nevertheless come down like an anvil, so we'd be looking at 400ish, tops.

Still, a 400 footer at that prominent location (a location geographically at the top of the hill in downtown) will feel like a 500 footer!  I’ll take it!  It really is going to depend on a few factors (as I see it…could be more that I’m missing):

1) how many rooms will actually be a part of the project (at least 500…will there be more?)

2) the footprint of the tower (smaller could mean taller).  There doesn’t appear to be a lot of space there for a large footprint.

3) whether there will be any other uses (not expecting any, but wishful me won’t rule it out 

4) cost.  Taller means more expensive to build - will developer chosen have the appetite to build tall…if not, the design could be manipulated so that it is as short as possible to save $$.

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The curse of the slow news day  is rearing it’s ugly head I see. 
 

There sure is a bunch of handwringing and exclamations of defeat  about hotel plans that have only been vague at best.   The plans were never even announced but  now  we’ve all agreed that, for only  craps and grins apparently, the city has ruined everything.   All the while ignoring the fact that the plans in Raleigh are a husk of the original.

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23 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

The curse of the slow news day  is rearing it’s ugly head I see. 
 

There sure is a bunch of handwringing and exclamations of defeat  about hotel plans that have only been vague at best.   The plans were never even announced but  now  we’ve all agreed that, for only  craps and grins apparently, the city has ruined everything.   All the while ignoring the fact that the plans in Raleigh are a husk of the original.

Gents, we REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY need a "tongue-in-cheek" emoji on here so folks will stop taking every poke-of-fun or negative inference so bloody seriously (and/or personally).

Wow - and I thought my reference to Maritza Pechin would've been a dead giveaway. (That punchline was designed to garner laughs, not rebuke!)

Friends, if we can't laugh at ourselves one in a while, then what are we doing?

 

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1 hour ago, eandslee said:

Still, a 400 footer at that prominent location (a location geographically at the top of the hill in downtown) will feel like a 500 footer!  I’ll take it!  It really is going to depend on a few factors (as I see it…could be more that I’m missing):

1) how many rooms will actually be a part of the project (at least 500…will there be more?)

2) the footprint of the tower (smaller could mean taller).  There doesn’t appear to be a lot of space there for a large footprint.

3) whether there will be any other uses (not expecting any, but wishful me won’t rule it out 

4) cost.  Taller means more expensive to build - will developer chosen have the appetite to build tall…if not, the design could be manipulated so that it is as short as possible to save $$.

So by 500 vs 400 - we were referring to the number of rooms - not the height of the building.

The originally-proposed Hyatt Regency (part of the Navy Hill plan) was slated for 527 rooms and according to pretty detailed renderings would have an equivalent height of something like 27 or 28 stories (with 23-25 actually occupied). Using 13-foot floor plating, we were looking at something about 350-360 feet tall.

 Using the same metrics as the originally proposed hotel, at 1,000 rooms, we'd be looking at something in the range of 42 to 45 stories tall, which would put the building height at anywhere from 546 to 585 feet tall - clearly the tallest building in Richmond and perhaps the tallest in the state, pending further developments in NOVA.

Obviously, these are all "shooting at the moon" what-ifs. But fun to speculate about, no question.

Edited by I miss RVA
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1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

The curse of the slow news day  is rearing it’s ugly head I see. 
 

There sure is a bunch of handwringing and exclamations of defeat  about hotel plans that have only been vague at best.   The plans were never even announced but  now  we’ve all agreed that, for only  craps and grins apparently, the city has ruined everything.   All the while ignoring the fact that the plans in Raleigh are a husk of the original.

Oh, we’re just having fun chatting and speculating.  No harm in that, I guess.  It is true that we do more of this on “slow news days,” but that’s what this forum is for!  We discuss Richmond development.  If there’s not much else to talk about, due to no new announcements, our minds start to wander (for me anyway) about the possibilities.  It’s all in good fun.

6 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Using the same metrics as the originally proposed hotel, at 1,000 rooms, we'd be looking at something in the range of 42 to 45 stories tall, which would put the building height at anywhere from 546 to 585 feet tall - clearly the tallest building in Richmond and perhaps the tallest in the state, pending further developments in NOVA.

Obviously, these are all "shooting at the moon" what-ifs. But fun to speculate about, no question.

But even a 300-350 foot tower would appear super tall in that location.  Not to mention, “RVA’s measurement system” would put a tower of 300 feet there officially at the “500 feet above sea level” range!!  LOL!

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1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

The curse of the slow news day  is rearing it’s ugly head I see. 
 

There sure is a bunch of handwringing and exclamations of defeat  about hotel plans that have only been vague at best.   The plans were never even announced but  now  we’ve all agreed that, for only  craps and grins apparently, the city has ruined everything.   All the while ignoring the fact that the plans in Raleigh are a husk of the original.


Man don’t be so uptight live a little man. It’s all in good fun. 

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44 minutes ago, eandslee said:

t is true that we do more of this on “slow news days,” but that’s what this forum is for!  

The truly slow news days are when RBS is reduced to "Bank executive likes to play pickleball in his free time" type features.

This is no slight at RBS. There's only so much news to go around.

2 hours ago, Brent114 said:

The plans were never even announced but  now  we’ve all agreed that, for only  craps and grins apparently, the city has ruined everything.

This is sometimes the way it feels here, not gonna lie, but I'm not seeing it in this thread.

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2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Oh, we’re just having fun chatting and speculating.  No harm in that, I guess.  It is true that we do more of this on “slow news days,” but that’s what this forum is for!  We discuss Richmond development.  If there’s not much else to talk about, due to no new announcements, our minds start to wander (for me anyway) about the possibilities.  It’s all in good fun.

But even a 300-350 foot tower would appear super tall in that location.  Not to mention, “RVA’s measurement system” would put a tower of 300 feet there officially at the “500 feet above sea level” range!!  LOL!

Also known as measuring building heights in "CoStar Feet" 😉

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Nothing earth-shattering, but the city has trimmed the roster of candidates vying for the initial phase of the City Center redevelopment from five to four. The local company - Sterling Bilder LLC was eliminated from contention as was expected. 

According to Jonathan Spiers' reporting in today's RBS: 

The city’s announcement said the selected teams were chosen “due to their experience developing hotels and large mixed-use urban redevelopment projects.” The request for offers invites the four teams to submit formal proposals by April 20 at 3 p.m.

It will be interesting to see how the latest economic uncertainty impacts this and the Diamond District going forward.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/03/14/four-development-teams-advance-in-city-center-solicitation/

 

CityCenterRFI1-1536x835.jpg

Edited by I miss RVA
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Without any additional info at all, one would think Capstone Development LL and RCDP/Machete would be in the top half of the slate given the way the Diamond District thing has gone. (In the case of the latter, dumb question, would they show interest in a subsequent big project here, if there ever is one, after getting spurned twice?) 

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