City Center / Virginia BioTech Park

[whw53]

3 minutes ago, ancientcarpenter said:

Can someone attach the full doc(s) as an attachment? I'm having trouble finding the details on the richmond city page...

 

1407072147_CityCenterPlan.pdf

[I miss RVA]

Folks,

As some in our community have prognosticated might be the case in 2022, I believe it's a safe bet that the City Center district will draw its share of headlines and front-page RT-D and RBS stories at various points this year. The mayor mentioned that at least the Block D portion of the what is currently in the City Center SAP is high on the city's priority list for development right behind the build out in Greater Scott's/the Diamond District. 

As we know from what's been proposed for Block D, it's a direct carry-over from the defunct Navy Hill plan -- and that seems to be somewhat of a trend; several specific projects/sites that were part of the NH plan have been rolled into current planning for the CCSAP. 

NOT counting the Block D development, there are four holdover projects, including one ("City Center") that pre-dates NH.  With humble apologies to @IceteraI borrowed from his excellent project height-tracking spreadsheet and put together a small analysis that might give us a glimpse into the future of what the southern portion of the City Center district might look like. This does not factor in demo'ing the Coliseum, building a public plaza on/near that spot, and surrounding that location with high rise residential buildings, etc. Nor does it account for additional hotel/entertainment and government buildings that are included in the city's current SAP for the district.

For site elevation, I used what Ice listed on his spreadsheets for existing buildings that are close to potential project sites and applied a standard 13-foot high for floor plates as well as a roughly two-story mechanical section atop the buildings in question. Renderings are all old and have appeared on the forums in the past. I'm including them just to give us a visual idea of what the buildings might look like so we can use a little "theater of the mind" to project out how they might look on the downtown skyline -- hopefully within no more than a decade from now (and very hopefully a lot sooner). Also, I've included the skyline prominence (like Ice did on his spreadsheet) to give us an idea of just how much each building would impact the skyline visually.

The projects in question are:

1.) - Hyatt Regency Hotel -- planned for northern half of the block adjacent to the Blues Armory. I've listed the hotel address as 601 E. Clay Street (no idea of Clay will be re-established between 5th & 7th streets the way it will be in the Block D development farther east). This was labeled "Block F" on the NH proposal.

2.) - Two high rise mixed-use or residential towers - both on the south side of Broad Street - one at 401 E. Broad (old G.C. Murphy site) and the other at 601 E. Broad where the northern half of the old Thalhimer's store once existed. These were labeled as Block N and Block P on the NH proposal map. However, the most recent CCSAP map does not include a building at 601 E. Broad -- hopefully that will change.

3.) - The original "City Center" mixed-use/residential project for 601 E. Grace Street. It was listed on the NH proposal map as "Block U" - they had a different alignment with the tower along 7th Street. I prefer the original Grace Street alignment.

All four buildings would present the narrow part of their profiles facing east-west with the wider portions facing north-south.

It's VERY interesting to note that THREE of the buildings -- the Hyatt, the 601 E. Broad residential tower, and the original City Center project all align in a row as they would be constructed in the 600 blocks of their respective streets (Clay, Broad, Grace).

The original "City Center" project had two iterations: One was a single tower, with the north wall angling away from E. Grace and the south wall curved. The other was a two-tower design, linked together on the 6th Street side with one tower exactly parallel to Grace Street and the second tower aligned almost parallel to its sister tower. (This is the design I personally prefer.)

Given the elevation along the Broad/Grace/Marshall corridor, these buildings would have quite significant prominence on the skyline -- much the way Children's Hospital and the new outpatient hospital at 10th and Leigh do.

Again, this is all food for thought -- and I thought it might give us some inspiration as to how the City Center district might look in the coming years.

Here's the workup and an overview map (taken from the NH plan). Project renderings to follow.

 

The Hyatt Regency would be the largest and tallest of the group. Even if towers were constructed at 601 E. Broad and 601 E. Grace, the hotel tower would still have prominence -- and -- in theory (using "CoStar height") would be the tallest-appearing building on the city's skyline. I counted 28.5 "segments" from ground floor to roof - with plating at 13 feet. The building soup-to-nuts would thus stand 371 feet tall. Adding to it the elevation of 52 meters (171 feet), the hotel's prominence on the skyline would be 541 feet -- and the building would appear taller than CoStar, Monroe, Dominion, and the Fed.

Edited January 20, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

The two residential or mixed use buildings according to the NH plan would have a very similar design. Both would have 20 occupied floors and would sit upon a roughly four-story parking/retail pedestal. Having this level of height, bulk and density would be a HUGE win for Broad Street. It should be noted that given the elevation (53 and 52 meters) both buildings -- despite architecturally checking in at 332 tall from street to rooftop --  would have a skyline prominence in excess of 500 feet.

 

 

Finally, the original "City Center" project. I personally prefer the two-tower design with the large glass connector segment aligning with 6th Street. In addition to having two towers instead of one bulkier tower, I much prefer having the north-facing wall actually align with Grace Street as opposed to angling away from Grace toward the 7th Street side.

Admittedly, there's also something REALLY cool about the building with the curved south-facing wall. That smooth, elongated yet almost 180-degree curve would be absolutely unique on the downtown skyline and really make this building stand out. STILL -I'm greedy and will trade the fancier architecture for a second tower.

This project would be the "shortest" of the group, coming in at only 260 feet street-to-roof -- but with the 52 meter elevation would still be quite visible at 431 feet high on the skyline.  Even at only 260 in actual physical height, this building would tower handsomely over the old C&P phone company building at 7th and Grace and the former VEPCO Building at 7th & Franklin. This would certainly lead one to wonder if the three small buildings that are storefronts on the NW corner of 7th and Franklin might come down and something larger rise in their place? Perhaps the biggest issue involved there is that the small building at 616 E. Franklin is likely considered historic -- and we know that the parking garage (at least the facade) at 6th and Franklin will likely be saved and integrated into the "City Center" pedestal's overall structure.

 

 

 

And here's how the single, bulkier tower, would look. My preference is for the dual towers.

Edited January 20, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

Folks,

As a bit of a follow-up to the previous discussion about City Center and possible projects that pre-date the current City Center Small Area Plan (either they were part of the Navy Hill proposal or even pre-dated the NH plan) and with HUMBLE apologies to all the fine folks who developed & maintain our outstanding interactive development map, I've prepared a static -- very much NON-INTERACTIVE map of downtown of known high rise projects -- both those actively in the pipeline and those that have been discussed and for which there have been renderings but at this point are only hypothetical -- to give us a visual perspective of the potential impact they could have on downtown -- regardless of whether there is actual "city center" development (which hopefully there will be).

Of course, as is my wont, I focused specifically on projects of double-digit story height only, in order to approach from the vantage point of how the skyline will be impacted and how much the city will have changed when viewed via drone aerial photography/videography. That's not to ignore the economic impact, streetscape impact and human impact of smaller projects -- like the additional full-block build-out anticipated along with the VCU Health-anchored tower as part of the Block D redevelopment. I did not focus on any of the components of the CCSAP that are totally hypothetical with no specifically known history - such as the buildup of high rise residential, office, mixed use, hotel/entertainment and government buildings surrounding the public plaza/open space that likely would replace the Coliseum along a hopefully re-built stretch of E. Clay Street.

In order for us to gain some perspective as to how the CURRENTLY KNOWN projects -- some or all of which MIGHT start at some point in 2022 -- as well as POTENTIAL projects that could rise as part of a concentrated/cohesive City Center plan. The current projects are represented by little YELLOW buildings. (Sorry - I was having some fun with Paint 3-D).  I included the Bakery Lofts at 17th and Franklin even through it is technically on the periphery of downtown in the Bottom. The potential projects are represented by little ORANGE buildings. I included One Residential Tower in the potential projects, even through it's in the Arts District and is not part of City Center.

NOTE: I did NOT include the 14-story mixed-use/residential building (SW corner of 4th and E. Broad) that we've seen on the drawing board of architect Nachum Goodenow because it seems unlikely this building will be constructed (I believe at least some of the small storefront buildings in that block were recently renovated).

By focusing on the yellow buildings, we can see how the current projects will impact and change downtown. None of them rise in City Center itself (an argument could be made that The Admiral "technically" does - but I would suggest that it really is outside of the CORE of the City Center district. Focus on the orange buildings gives us an idea how how a build-up of the core of City Center will impact downtown -- almost like partially filling the "hole" of the "doughnut" created by the "ring" of projects that will rise outside of City Center. Taken together, we can see just how dramatically downtown might change over the next decade.

Okay - enough of my babbling. Here's the map - enjoy!

 

[wrldcoupe4]

This is good. You could include the proposed state buildings on Main Street which are both double digit and the the buildings VCU Health is planning as well. Perhaps we don’t know the floor counts on the VCU buildings yet. 

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

This is good. You could include the proposed state buildings on Main Street which are both double digit and the the buildings VCU Health is planning as well. Perhaps we don’t know the floor counts on the VCU buildings yet. 

Thanks, Coupe!!

Good call. Yep - I can do that! 

Isn't one of the new VCU Health buildings something like 11 or 12 or maybe 13 floors? Last I saw according to state info was that the new 7th and Main building was 14 floors (although on here, it's been shrinking from 14 to 13 to suddenly 11 - I hope and pray that's NOT the case!) 

QUESTION: What's the second state building on Main Street and how many floors? There's a second state building aside from the one at 7th and Main?

I'll work on an update.

Edited January 23, 2022 by I miss RVA

[wrldcoupe4]

They are going to demo the newer addition of the Pocahontas building at 10th and Main  and replace it with a new building for the State Supreme Court. I guess to be fair they haven’t confirmed the proposed height yet, but it will be over 230,000 sf so not an insignificant structure. 

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

They are going to demo the newer addition of the Pocahontas building at 10th and Main  and replace it with a new building for the State Supreme Court. I guess to be fair they haven’t confirmed the proposed height yet, but it will be over 230,000 sf so not an insignificant structure. 

Just curious - do we know how many sf the current newer addition has? I saw somewhere that the Pocohantas Building is > 300,000 sf - but I'm guessing that's for the high-rise portion as well as the 7-story annex, no? So only the 7-story annex is to be replaced by a 230K sf structure?

Edited January 23, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

I dug around and this is what I was able to glean from VCU's master plan published in 2019. Looks like the university is planning for an Interdisciplinary Health Sciences building, roughly 13 stories, just east of the new outpatient hospital. And immediately to the east of the IDHSB a new inpatient hospital - and I recall having read something two or three years ago that mentioned this building would be anywhere from 16 to 18 stories tall -- and notice how on the 3-D rendering in the master plan it looks like it will be as tall as the new outpatient hospital - so even though we're only guesstimating at this point, let's call it at 18 stories.

That said - I'll update the downtown map with these buildings. (I've added the state office building at 7th and Main)

[eandslee]

Where can I find the latest version of your 3D downtown map that includes the buildings you just mentioned above?

[I miss RVA]

Hot off the presses!

Here's the latest and greatest 3D downtown map, updated to include the planned state office building at 7th and E. Main, the planned VCU Health Interdisciplinary Health Sciences building and the planned new VCU Health inpatient hospital.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

I dug around and this is what I was able to glean from VCU's master plan published in 2019. Looks like the university is planning for an Interdisciplinary Health Sciences building, roughly 13 stories, just east of the new outpatient hospital. And immediately to the east of the IDHSB a new inpatient hospital - and I recall having read something two or three years ago that mentioned this building would be anywhere from 16 to 18 stories tall -- and notice how on the 3-D rendering in the master plan it looks like it will be as tall as the new outpatient hospital - so even though we're only guesstimating at this point, let's call it at 18 stories.

That said - I'll update the downtown map with these buildings. (I've added the state office building at 7th and Main)

Oh wow so it looks like at some point they are going to replace the main hospital at vcu according to the last photo with the caption above it. Anyone any idea what the status with that is? Never even knew they were thinking about replacing the main part of the hospital.

[eandslee]

56 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Thanks for putting all this together.  Though this looks like a lot (to me...not really), I'm thinking we need a lot more!  Would love to see some high-rises in the Monroe Ward (just to the NW of the Dominion Energy tower).  Preferably, some mixed use towers that will be tall (20+ stories).  Also, I'd be nice to see some more action in the financial district (don't get me wrong, CoStar is super awesome, but the rest of the financial district is dormant).   Overall, this is a great visual!

Oh yeah...this doesn't even include any of the City Center towers that are envisioned!  Hopefully, we see some more concrete plans for that area this year!  The top half of this map could really be hot by the end of the year for sure!

[I miss RVA]

55 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

Oh wow so it looks like at some point they are going to replace the main hospital at vcu according to the last photo with the caption above it. Anyone any idea what the status with that is? Never even knew they were thinking about replacing the main part of the hospital.

Perhaps at some point, yes. A check of the VCU master plan online site shows only one medical campus project in the pipeline -- a new building for the School of Dentistry -- and that won't be funded until the 2024-26 biennium.  There does not appear to be a rendering of this building. Everything else on the near-term radar is on the academic campus. The 12-story residential building at Laurel & Grace is not expected to be funded until the 2024-26 biennium. Interesting that the school did include longer-range projects -- such as the new inpatient hospital -- as an overall part of the master plan, even if those projects at this point have no real details yet.

https://masterplan.vcu.edu/implementation/planning-phase-projects/

[123fakestreet]

58 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

Oh wow so it looks like at some point they are going to replace the main hospital at vcu according to the last photo with the caption above it. Anyone any idea what the status with that is? Never even knew they were thinking about replacing the main part of the hospital.

Pretty sure that's the parking deck.  I had heard this as the long term plan years ago, hadn't yet seen it on anything official. What I heard was they are replacing the main patient parking deck (which if you've ever used it is pretty dated and convoluted) with more hospital space and moving patient parking to the employee deck across the street. Employees are then moving to the deck on the "island" at the 64/95 interchange, which I believe has just been completed.

[I miss RVA]

50 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Thanks for putting all this together.  Though this looks like a lot (to me...not really), I'm thinking we need a lot more!  Would love to see some high-rises in the Monroe Ward (just to the NW of the Dominion Energy tower).  Preferably, some mixed use towers that will be tall (20+ stories).  Also, I'd be nice to see some more action in the financial district (don't get me wrong, CoStar is super awesome, but the rest of the financial district is dormant).   Overall, this is a great visual!

Oh yeah...this doesn't even include any of the City Center towers that are envisioned!  Hopefully, we see some more concrete plans for that area this year!  The top half of this map could really be hot by the end of the year for sure!

That thought has crossed my mind while putting all of this together -- that on the one hand, it really IS a lot of projects -- potentially 14 projects involving possibly 15 high-rise buildings - which depending on the time frame in which these buildings might rise actually IS a lot by Richmond standards (maybe not by the standards of some -- probably much larger -- cities. And yet - even with ALL of these projects, it's really a drop in the bucket compared to what COULD be! The overall percentage of the landscape yet to be developed that are not impacted by these projects is enormous -- which gives us some food for thought as to the potential for downtown RVA to really beef up.

The thing is -- even these projects -- will likely take the rest of the decade to come to pass. I can't see 15 double-digit-story buildings rising in just a matter of the next 2 or 3 years. I hope I'm proven wrong on this, and we see boom cranes suddenly sprouting up all over downtown in the next couple of years. Makes me realize there's just about no way I'll live long enough to see RVA reach the fullness of her potential. That will be multiple decades in the making. Hopefully we'll see a tremendous amount of development in the coming years. Just what's on this map certainly qualifies.

And yes - this doesn't include anything in the far northern portion of what is included in the CCSAP, since we have no concrete proposals. I'll be interested to see how the Mayor and the city govt handles pushing this forward, given Stoney's comments at the end of last year about putting emphasis on economic development in City Center -- and placing only Greater Scott's/Diamond District redevelopment ahead it in terms of timeframe.

This year will certainly be very interesting - as will the next several years. Here's hoping we see a LOT of ground broken on these projects going forward.

[Icetera]

On 1/23/2022 at 12:57 AM, I miss RVA said:

Just curious - do we know how many sf the current newer addition has? I saw somewhere that the Pocohantas Building is > 300,000 sf - but I'm guessing that's for the high-rise portion as well as the 7-story annex, no? So only the 7-story annex is to be replaced by a 230K sf structure?

Looks like the annex has 170,397 Sqft while the original tower has 100,609 Sqft.

https://apps.richmondgov.com/applications/propertysearch/Detail.aspx?pin=E0000098015

[Wahoo 07]

Looking at the development map and seeing just how impressive VCU Hospital's physical plant is (and will be in the coming decade), Richmond is incredibly fortunate to have such a complex.  It is something that one would find in a much larger MSA.  VCU Hospital is a major amenity that helps Richmond hit way above its weight class in terms of healthcare and quality of life.  Millions of Americans have to travel great distances to access a cutting edge medical facility.  Most Richmonders can one reach in twenty minutes.  

Apologies for being a bit off topic.

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, Icetera said:

Looks like the annex has 170,397 Sqft while the original tower has 100,609 Sqft.

https://apps.richmondgov.com/applications/propertysearch/Detail.aspx?pin=E0000098015

Thanks for finding that, Ice. Good to know. Okay - assuming roughly the same footprint per floor plate in sf (just doing some straight math it comes to 24,342), we get 9.5 floors (actually 9.448) -- so best guess is that it should be somewhere around 9 or 10 stories. Not that I'm a proponent of plazas or courtyards (I much prefer build-outs right to the sidewalk), but I'd be willing to give up a few extra feet around the perimeter of the building to ensure we get this puppy up to -- or over -- 10 stories! 

Edited January 24, 2022 by I miss RVA

[ancientcarpenter]

2 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Looking at the development map and seeing just how impressive VCU Hospital's physical plant is (and will be in the coming decade), Richmond is incredibly fortunate to have such a complex.  It is something that one would find in a much larger MSA.  VCU Hospital is a major amenity that helps Richmond hit way above its weight class in terms of healthcare and quality of life.  Millions of Americans have to travel great distances to access a cutting edge medical facility.  Most Richmonders can one reach in twenty minutes.  

Apologies for being a bit off topic.

 

Agreed. Not only did VCU hold down RVA during some of the worst times in the 80's and 90s (and let's be honest, early 2000s weren't great either) but VCU has offered endless opportunities for employment and I'm sure it's a big reason why many companies have chosen to come to RVA. It's also helped with the RVA real estate housing market I'm sure. My first job out of college was for VCU and my wife started her career as a nurse at VCU. 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Looking at the development map and seeing just how impressive VCU Hospital's physical plant is (and will be in the coming decade), Richmond is incredibly fortunate to have such a complex.  It is something that one would find in a much larger MSA.  VCU Hospital is a major amenity that helps Richmond hit way above its weight class in terms of healthcare and quality of life.  Millions of Americans have to travel great distances to access a cutting edge medical facility.  Most Richmonders can one reach in twenty minutes.  

Apologies for being a bit off topic.

Spot on! The exceptionally comprehensive VCU Health system - and its correspondingly massive complex -- are what you'd expect to find in significantly larger cities/metros such as D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Phoenix, San Francisco, etc.

Edited January 24, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Shakman]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Thanks for finding that, Ice. Good to know. Okay - assuming roughly the same footprint per floor plate in sf (just doing some straight math it comes to 24,342), we get 9.5 floors (actually 9.448) -- so best guess is that it should be somewhere around 9 or 10 stories. Not that I'm a proponent of plazas or courtyards (I much prefer build-outs right to the sidewalk), but I'd be willing to give up a few extra feet around the perimeter of the building to ensure we get this puppy up to -- or over -- 10 stories! 

Courthouses, at the least the ones I have been on during construction, tend to have more height per floor compared to commercial buildings.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Shakman

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Shakman said:

Courthouses, at the least the ones I have been on during construction, tend to have more height per floor compared to commercial buildings.

 

Good to know! So imagine if this had slightly smaller sf floor plates (accounting for a little bit of public space on the exterior perimeter of the building) and say plating at 14-ft height -- we could be looking at 140 feet for 10-stories, and let's add 1 or 2 floors' worth of mechanical at the top of the building - so an equivalent architectural height of, say, 12 stories, getting us to 168 feet street-to-rooftop. That MIGHT get us to a height roughly equivalent to the Mutual Building across the street. THAT wouldn't be bad at all.

Keep in mind these are all "Monopoly Money" figures using feet in place of dollars. But it's certainly enough to give us some food for thought.

Edited January 24, 2022 by I miss RVA

[DowntownCoruscant]

3 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Good to know! So imagine if this had slightly smaller sf floor plates (accounting for a little bit of public space on the exterior perimeter of the building) and say plating at 14-ft height -- we could be looking at 140 feet for 10-stories, and let's add 1 or 2 floors' worth of mechanical at the top of the building - so an equivalent architectural height of, say, 12 stories, getting us to 168 feet street-to-rooftop. That MIGHT get us to a height roughly equivalent to the Mutual Building across the street. THAT wouldn't be bad at all.

Keep in mind these are all "Monopoly Money" figures using feet in place of dollars. But it's certainly enough to give us some food for thought.

Total WAG based on just public knowledge would be 9 floors, equivalent to 10. That’s based on the current Supreme Court being 6 floors but more like 7 because there’s a mezzanine between ground and second, as the courtroom’s ceiling is very high. From two up the building is more like an office building with various IT and court administration, etc. Also, I would guess this building will hold the Court of Appeals, which occupies the Rose & Lafoon building (2 floors plus a basement) that is more or less attached. Presumably the Court of Appeals would have its own dedicated courtroom and take up a couple floors, maybe three, given it just expanded from 11 to 17 judges (not all of whom are based on Richmond, of course). The wild card might be whether an upper floor rotunda is planned, which is kind of the trend in court buildings these days.

 

 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

Total WAG based on just public knowledge would be 9 floors, equivalent to 10. That’s based on the current Supreme Court being 6 floors but more like 7 because there’s a mezzanine between ground and second, as the courtroom’s ceiling is very high. From two up the building is more like an office building with various IT and court administration, etc. Also, I would guess this building will hold the Court of Appeals, which occupies the Rose & Lafoon building (2 floors plus a basement) that is more or less attached. Presumably the Court of Appeals would have its own dedicated courtroom and take up a couple floors, maybe three, given it just expanded from 11 to 17 judges (not all of whom are based on Richmond, of course). The wild card might be whether an upper floor rotunda is planned, which is kind of the trend in court buildings these days.

 

 

Public knowledge? Also - can you clarify? Where is this being bandied about?

Now are we counting on an additional "floor" or two atop the building to handle mechanical?

Curious to know how an upper floor rotunda might impact the building size architecturally.

Wow - that's some REALLY good information, my friend! 

Edited January 25, 2022 by I miss RVA