The Republic Is Saved.

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

Also correct but you have to start with the governor, who will make appointments to boards and stuff and then contributors start giving money to Democrats and we start taking back legislative seats. It took 20+ years to get in this mess and it’s gonna take a bit to get out. Gotta start somewhere, though. Sadly, one of the worst thing about Democrats is we don’t pay much attention to down-ballot races even though that’s how the GOP took over (that and Jeb!’s once-invincible machine). So, we need a little glitter at the top to prime the pump and hopefully NOT Andrew Gillum.

Gwen is competent, has learned to give the Bernie Bros some red meat on Twitter and doesn’t frighten the old folks.

As long as Florida's weather attracts old people from up north, and as long as old people tend to be on the conservative side, Florida will continue to elect Republicans.

Sad, but likely true.

[spenser1058]

Just now, JFW657 said:

As long as Florida's weather attracts old people from up north, and as long as old people tend to be on the conservative side, Florida will continue to elect Republicans.

Sad, but likely true.

They’re a challenge but when Obama was running competent campaigns in the state,we’ve won.

We also have an FDP chair who has the clout to get things done in South Florida for the first time in ages.

[JFW657]

I guess we'll see.

Eventually.

If we're still around by then. 

[spenser1058]

Just now, JFW657 said:

I guess we'll see.

Eventually.

If we're still around by then. 

They said Democrats couldn’t win Georgia in a runoff, either, and we just did with the fifth choice picks.

[orange87]

If I had to vote for one of the Democrat candidates for Governor it would probably be Philip Levine or Jason Pizzo.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, orange87 said:

If I had to vote for one of the Democrat candidates for Governor it would probably be Philip Levine or Jason Pizzo.

Pizzo and Levine are likely to knock each other out in the primary fighting for the same Dade County votes. They also both will likely have challenges winning votes upstate (there’s a reason Miami is called the “6th Borough”. - it’s like Brooklyn with a beach).

[orange87]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Pizzo and Levine are likely to knock each other out in the primary fighting for the same Dade County votes. They also both will likely have challenges winning votes upstate (there’s a reason Miami is called the “6th Borough”. - it’s like Brooklyn with a beach).

I like them because they're both from the Northeast like me and because they both are moderate/centrists.

Edited January 20, 2021 by orange87

[gibby]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

She did buck her GOP colleagues and voted for it to go from the Finance Committee before the full Senate,

Ah, yes.  That's true.  I forgot about that.  Good catch.

[WAJAS]

The 15 USD minimum wage is likely to occur very soon with the incoming stimulus. Its a part of the current proposal. Also of note, the current form of the stimulus would eliminate the disability minimum wage and the tipped minimum wage. These are some pretty significant changes that Americans will notice in their everyday lives.

[jack]

19 hours ago, orange87 said:

$15 minimum wage has bipartisan support, as evidence of it getting a supermajority to support it in the red state of Florida.

The legislative bodies need to look at the impact in each state of passing a nation wide minimum wage. In the NE, it probably wouldn't have a huge impact except in really rural areas. But Alabama, Mississippi? It will be rough in most of the state outside a couple of the cities. 

Look at the cost of living in these state, its probably half of what it is in Hawaii. We should not treat them the same. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by jack

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, jack said:

The legislative bodies need to look at the impact in each state of passing a nation wide minimum wage. In the NE, it probably wouldn't have a huge impact except in really rural areas. But Alabama, Mississippi? It will be rough in any city most of the state outside a couple of the cities. 

Look at the cost of living in these state, its probably half of what it is in Hawaii. We should not treat them the same. 

Absolutely true, IMO.

There are some things where a "one size fits all" approach is appropriate, but this is not one of them.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Absolutely true, IMO.

There are some things where a "one size fits all" approach is appropriate, but this is not one of them.

I guess then we need to have fifty different currencies since a dollar buys more in some places than others. We also need to pay the folks in Alabama less for Social Security and Medicare also, right? We’ll also need to change the price of goods like cars in each state. 

The minimum wage is simply a floor. Even in Alabama it is impossible to cover basic living expenses with the current minimum. We might add that even within Alabama the price of goods varies greatly if you live in say, Birmingham, Huntsville or a small town like Sylacauga. 

Given that if the minimum had kept up with either inflation or productivity increases in the economy it should actually be as much as twice as what it is, taking it to only $15/hour still reflects those areas where prices are naturally lower.

What’s also interesting is that, in the years since 1968 when the minimum wage stopped keeping pace with actual costs and productivity increases in the economy, what has happened is that more and more profits have gone to capital (that’s why inequality has been growing). I wonder why you have no problem with disproportionate gains to capital even as significant losses were occurring to labor.

 

[JFW657]

8 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I guess then we need to have fifty different currencies since a dollar buys more in some places than others. We also need to pay the folks in Alabama less for Social Security and Medicare also, right? We’ll also need to change the price of goods like cars in each state. 

Hyperbole and absurdity do nothing to advance your argument.

The fact is that the cost of living varies greatly not only from region to region, but from state to state and from district to district within each state and even from town to town.

Am I suggesting that the minimum wage should be different in each district and town within each state? 

No.

But a state government can more adequately determine its own citizens' needs.

If the state's leaders don't adequately provide for those needs through legislation, then the voters have a remedy for that.

As for cars, the prices already vary from state to state and even from dealer to dealer.

I thought everybody knew that.

8 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The minimum wage is simply a floor. Even in Alabama it is impossible to cover basic living expenses with the current minimum. We might add that even within Alabama the price of goods varies greatly if you live in say, Birmingham, Huntsville or a small town like Sylacauga. 

Who says so? 

Do you live in Alabama?

Does someone living in rural Alabama or any other rural area in the midwest, where homes can be purchased for less than the price of an average mid-priced car, need a $15 an hour minimum wage?

I am friends with a couple who sold their Belle Isle home in 2018 and moved to WV where they purchased a beautiful red brick, two story house with a covered front porch and a basement, for $27,000. Their property taxes are about $200 per year. 

They are retired now, but if they were working, would they need $15 an hour to survive?

I don't think so.

20 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Given that if the minimum had kept up with either inflation or productivity increases in the economy it should actually be as much as twice as what it is, taking it to only $15/hour still reflects those areas where prices are naturally lower.

And yet, only a miniscule percentage of Americans are homeless and living in the streets because they cannot afford to support themselves.

Certainly, most Americans who have been seduced by advertisements for every kind of gadget and luxury item imaginable, and as such, believe they MUST have them and can't live without them, have come to feel that they "need" to make more money in order to live the lifestyle they WANT to live. But in reality they don't.

There is a difference between needs and desires.

The lines that stretch around the buildings at every Best Buy in the country every time some new over priced smart phone is released pretty much exemplifies that.

To me anyway.

30 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

What’s also interesting is that, in the years since 1968 when the minimum wage stopped keeping pace with actual costs and productivity increases in the economy, what has happened is that more and more profits have gone to capital (that’s why inequality has been growing). I wonder why you have no problem with disproportionate gains to capital even as significant losses were occurring to labor.

There is a certain amount of validity to the theory that industry needs to reinvest capital to expand and create more production and more jobs.

Are the CEO's of these companies often, if not usually, grossly overpaid? I'd say yes, but reducing their compensation (most of which is usually in the form of stocks) would still probably not be enough to offset the increased cost of labor that a universal $15 an hour minimum wage would incur.

Keep in mind also, that when an employee's wage increases, other associated costs go up too. Companies are required to match SS deductions which are based on a percentage of the employees salary. The higher the salary, the higher the company's contribution for each employee,

Also, the more money people have to spend on consumer items, the more they will spend and the higher consumer prices will go, negating much of the extra money they receive anyway.

And finally, as I've opined before... I just cannot see forcing companies to pay middle class teenagers who have nothing to spend their money on but hanging out and partying with their friends, $15 an hour for working part time after school.

Put some age and company size restrictions on who gets the increase and some people might be less opposed to it.

[orange87]

There's a misconception that people living in low(er) cost of living states can "get by" on $8-$9/hour or less. The real data shows that $15/hour isn't unreasonable even for the lowest cost-of-living states. Keep in mind that a $15/hour minimum wage would be implemented (likely) over the span of 5-10 years so these numbers will rise by then.

Here are the five lowest cost of living states by hourly living wage:

1. South Dakota

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.60 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.76 per hour (per adult)

2. Arkansas

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.67 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.64 per hour (per adult)

3. West Virginia

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.83 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.76 per hour (per adult)

4. Kansas

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.86 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.96 per hour (per adult)

5. Ohio

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.86 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $15.28 per hour (per adult)

Edited January 21, 2021 by orange87

[jack]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

There's a misconception that people living in low(er) cost of living states can "get by" on $8-$9/hour or less. The real data shows that $15/hour isn't unreasonable even for the lowest cost-of-living states. Keep in mind that a $15/hour minimum wage would be implemented (likely) over the span of 5-10 years so these numbers will rise by then.

Here are the five lowest cost of living states by hourly living wage:

1. South Dakota

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.60 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.76 per hour (per adult)

2. Arkansas

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.67 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.64 per hour (per adult)

3. West Virginia

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.83 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.76 per hour (per adult)

4. Kansas

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.86 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $14.96 per hour (per adult)

5. Ohio

Living wage for a one-person household: $10.86 per hour

Living wage for a household with two working adults and two children: $15.28 per hour (per adult)

You just made my argument for me with this data. 

Also, look at the spread between families or single person households. When we are talking about raising the standard of living, we are really focusing on household with children with one working parent. I don't know how much of the working population falls into that description. 

[jack]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

What’s also interesting is that, in the years since 1968 when the minimum wage stopped keeping pace with actual costs and productivity increases in the economy, what has happened is that more and more profits have gone to capital (that’s why inequality has been growing). I wonder why you have no problem with disproportionate gains to capital even as significant losses were occurring to labor.

 

More profits have gone to capital but that is not the sole reason why the wage disparity. Much of it has to do with the change in the type of work (less manufacturing) and the prevalence of publicly traded companies. 

It also did not help when compensation shifted in the 90's from salary to awarding stock. 

[spenser1058]

In any event, the tide has turned on the issue. It has as much as  70% support among voters (see what happened right here in Florida last November), mainstream economic research shows it’s doable and even corporate America is signing on. It’s an issue that’s following the same trajectory as marriage equality and legalizing weed. 

Reaganomics dies a firmer death each time a boomer dies and a Gen Z voter replaces him. As we saw in Florida, it’s not even a party issue any more - Dems lost but minimum wage got a supermajority.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/opinion/minimum-wage-us.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times

[JFW657]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

In any event, the tide has turned on the issue. It has as much as  70% support among voters (see what happened right here in Florida last November), mainstream economic research shows it’s doable and even corporate America is signing on. It’s an issue that’s following the same trajectory as marriage equality and legalizing weed. 

Reaganomics dies a firmer death each time a boomer dies and a Gen Z voter replaces him. As we saw in Florida, it’s not even a party issue any more - Dems lost but minimum wage got a supermajority.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/opinion/minimum-wage-us.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times

No surprise.

Offer anyone the chance to make more money for the same amount of effort as opposed to cutting back on spending money going to bars and restaurants, travel and pricey items they could get by without, they're going to choose getting more money.

That doesn't make it the best course of action, though. 

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

No surprise.

Offer anyone the chance to make more money for the same amount of effort as opposed to cutting back on spending money going to bars and restaurants, travel and pricey items they could get by without, they're going to choose getting more money.

That doesn't make it the best course of action, though. 

Tell ‘em to get off your lawn, Grandpa! The kids’ll be fine - unlike us, they don’t have the desire to spend a bunch of money on a car. The priorities have changed.

Edited January 21, 2021 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

Tell ‘em to get off your lawn, Grandpa!

They already know better, dang it!!!!       

[spenser1058]

@JFW657 , you’re really going to lose it with what comes next. It makes minimum wage small potatoes. Next up is UBI.

The funny thing about it is the first time it got going - it was in the Nixon administration. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

Never happen.

Not in your or my lifetime.

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Never happen.

Not in your or my lifetime.

Didn’t they say that about Trump as president?

Edited January 21, 2021 by spenser1058

[orange87]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

@JFW657 , you’re really going to lose it with what comes next. It makes minimum wage small potatoes. Next up is UBI.

The funny thing about it is the first time it got going - it was in the Nixon administration. 

$15 minimum wage, universal basic income, universal healthcare, free public college are all gonna happen very soon.

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Never happen.

Not in your or my lifetime.

I think you're gonna be in for a rude awakening then.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, orange87 said:

$15 minimum wage, universal basic income, universal healthcare, free public college are all gonna happen very soon.

I think you're gonna be in for a rude awakening then.

While we weren’t looking, @orange87 turned into our very own Bernie Bro!