The Republic Is Saved.

[orange87]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

While we weren’t looking, @orange87 turned into our very own Bernie Bro!

I disagree with him on identity politics and immigration. I agree with him on almost everything else.

Edited January 21, 2021 by orange87

[JFW657]

45 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Didn’t they say that about Trump as president?

False Equivalence Fallacy aka apples and oranges....

https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-equivalence-fallacy-definition-and-examples/

46 minutes ago, orange87 said:

$15 minimum wage, universal basic income, universal healthcare, free public college are all gonna happen very soon.

I think you're gonna be in for a rude awakening then.

With a 50/50 divided Senate, passing that kind of legislation without a 2/3 majority will be next to impossible.

 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

False Equivalence Fallacy aka apples and oranges....

https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-equivalence-fallacy-definition-and-examples/

Not at all. It’s political. In 2008, no one would have believed same-sex marriage would ever happen. In 1908, no one would have believed in a 40-hour work week. You seem to have a belief that the country as it existed in 1984 is the fixed point for everything.

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Not at all. It’s political. In 2008, no one would have believed same-sex marriage would ever happen. In 1908, no one would have believed in a 40-hour work week. You seem to have a belief that the country as it existed in 1984 is the fixed point for everything.

Not at all.

You seem to have a belief that just because A. B & C came to pass in spite of and contrary to what the popular opinion was at the time, that D, E & F (as well as G thru Z) will also happen merely by virtue of the fact that A, B & C happened, even though every case had a completely different set of factors and circumstances.

Again.....

But you go ahead and believe what you want to believe.

I am not looking to stand in your way.

[dcluley98]

Sounds like possibly another Yang Gang candidate. . . 

[jack]

14 hours ago, orange87 said:

I disagree with him on identity politics and immigration. I agree with him on almost everything else.

 Until recently, he thought mass immigration was a Koch brothers plot to weaken American workers. And he always thought America has a class problem, not a race problem. He changed his tune for this recent election but I don't believe he really changed his mind. 

14 hours ago, orange87 said:

$15 minimum wage, universal basic income, universal healthcare, free public college are all gonna happen very soon.

I think you're gonna be in for a rude awakening then.

That will be tough now that Republicans remembered they are supposed to care about deficits. 

And the amount the feds contribute to higher education will have to go up by a massive amount to cover free tuition. If not, every single state will have cover it. No red state will do this. Any GOP member (not named Donald Trump) advocating for this will get clubbed in the head. 

[orange87]

3 hours ago, jack said:

 Until recently, he thought mass immigration was a Koch brothers plot to weaken American workers. And he always thought America has a class problem, not a race problem. He changed his tune for this recent election but I don't believe he really changed his mind. 

Exactly. I saw an interview of him from not too long ago where he shocked the pencil-neck SJW interviewer by saying he opposes mass migration. Shows he's just like any other politician. Will flip-flop if it's politically expedient.

[prahaboheme]

On 1/22/2021 at 9:28 AM, jack said:

 Until recently, he thought mass immigration was a Koch brothers plot to weaken American workers. And he always thought America has a class problem, not a race problem. He changed his tune for this recent election but I don't believe he really changed his mind. 

That will be tough now that Republicans remembered they are supposed to care about deficits. 

And the amount the feds contribute to higher education will have to go up by a massive amount to cover free tuition. If not, every single state will have cover it. No red state will do this. Any GOP member (not named Donald Trump) advocating for this will get clubbed in the head. 

High school students in FL can already graduate from high school with an Associate degree, free of tuition if they so choose to apply themselves to that direction.  I don’t think it’s terribly far fetched to assume that this gets broadened over time to include everyone, and then eventually to a Bachelor degree.

[orange87]

My wife got straight A's in school, but couldn't get scholarships despite her hard work because she wasn't a U.S. citizen at the time. Now she has a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice from UCF  and a mountain of student loan debt. 

[spenser1058]

George Will, an actual, honest-to-God Conservative (not the horribly disfigured Trumpist idea of it but the original Edmund Burke variety), rolls out actual facts and the true history of the US, a nation of immigrants:

Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery. This country needs a good hit of it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/immigration-is-the-sincerest-form-of-flattery-this-country-needs-a-good-hit-of-it/2021/01/21/eb554434-5c2a-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

From The Washington Post

 

A more practical variety: the demise of Social Security kept moving further and further into the future because of the immigrants (who tend to be younger than US citizens as a whole) who came in and began to pay FICA taxes.

 

The undocumented who work are the best bargain of all because, if they’re not citizens, they’re supporting the elderly yet will never qualify for those benefits in the future. Those payments have been a godsend to the Treasury when the Republicans were cutting taxes for billionaires for the last 40 years with no means to pay the bills.

 

[spenser1058]

Will Amtrak Joe, Transportation Pete and a party that actually LIKES trains mean a renaissance of America’s trains? Is it a great way to reintroduce the Democratic Party to the rural red states? There’s something about a train...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/montana-rural-railroad-amtrak.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 

[jack]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:32 PM, prahaboheme said:

High school students in FL can already graduate from high school with an Associate degree, free of tuition if they so choose to apply themselves to that direction.  I don’t think it’s terribly far fetched to assume that this gets broadened over time to include everyone, and then eventually to a Bachelor degree.

But the cost of a 4yr compare to a 2yr is night in day. Besides, this and canceling student debt do nothing to deal with the underlying issue. College is too expensive for what you get and has far outpaced inflation. 

[JFW657]

13 minutes ago, jack said:

But the cost of a 4yr compare to a 2yr is night in day. Besides, this and canceling student debt do nothing to deal with the underlying issue. College is too expensive for what you get and has far outpaced inflation. 

It's a vicious cycle. As college gets more and more expensive, graduates who become college professors and administrators want/need more and more compensation to pay off and justify the expense of their education. The higher their compensation gets, the more expensive an education becomes. Throw in all the other associated cost increases, like the cost of construction of new buildings, etc., and the spiral just continues unabated. 

Glad I'm not looking at that prospect today.

[orange87]

Maybe we could make it so if a public college wants to be included as a "free college," then they need to follow federal price controls. It would be in the federal governments best interest to keep the prices low. That would also probably put pressure on "non-free colleges" to lower their prices.

Edited January 25, 2021 by orange87

[nite owℓ]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:32 PM, prahaboheme said:

High school students in FL can already graduate from high school with an Associate degree, free of tuition if they so choose to apply themselves to that direction.  I don’t think it’s terribly far fetched to assume that this gets broadened over time to include everyone, and then eventually to a Bachelor degree.

Yep - and that also includes the option to attend trade/tech school. I mention that because not everyone is cut out for college/university. Some people argue a person can/should work harder or pursue higher education to move up the ladder (which is fine) but you still need to have quality low level employees running things as well. Lower level employees will always be needed so this is why reevaluating the living wage is so important.

Edited January 26, 2021 by nite owℓ

[spenser1058]

Just for @JFW657 :

https://twitter.com/thee_snek/status/1354472700559970307?s=12

 

[spenser1058]

Where Sedition Is A Pleasure? Publix heiress paid for the rally at the US Capitol on Jan. 6:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/01/30/publix-heiress-paid-for-trump-rally-preceding-capitol-riots-wsj-reports/

From The Tampa Bay Times 

[spenser1058]

Woohoo! It’s Secretary Mayor Pete now...

[spenser1058]

Continuing a trend we saw with some Florida counties, it looks like the GOP is scaring away moderates across the country. Maybe the hard-core base of MAGA types is enough to keep the elephant afloat, but that means rural voters will have to keep pounding above their weight as the ‘burbs are shocked by things like the Jan 6 insurrection.

It’s been quite a while since I’ve seen this kind of movement - it will be interesting to see if it settles down by 2022. 
 

https://view.newsletters.cnn.com/messages/161248146819929e908fff565/raw?utm_term=161248146819929e908fff565&utm_source=cnn_The+Point+%E2%80%93+Thursday%2C+February+4%2C+2021&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1612481468204&bt_ee=0HjQby%2B0inftPCp7%2Fo%2FnRyvaUr5Y1SZu5K8hkGXtHdkwAy25%2Ff6IN0C3JNnFqzNu&bt_ts=1612481468204

 

From CNN

[spenser1058]

Woohoo! The bill supported by 70% of Americans passed the House today with zero help from the greedsters in that “other” party. Help is on the way!

[spenser1058]

Help for restaurants included in American Rescue Plan:

https://www.scottjosephorlando.com/

From Scott J

Edited March 10, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Goldman Sachs is predicting 8% growth and 4% unemployment for 2021. The Biden Boom may give us a blue wave in 2022 - bye, bye filibuster if it does. Build Back Better!

[spenser1058]

The new IRS payment tracker says my Biden Bucks will hit my direct deposit on Wednesday- life is good!

[nite owℓ]

Sidney Powell is trying a brazen and bizarre argument in defending herself against a defamation lawsuit by Dominion Voting Systems.

After being asked to put her money where her mouth is (remember, she publicly claimed to have evidence), Mrs. Powell's team is now singing a different tune in court just like the rest of the scam artists. Turns out, the Kraken was indeed folklore all along:

 

[JFW657]

Saw that a couple of days ago.

Nothing is beyond the realm of believability when it comes to Trump Inc.

Except the stuff they want you to believe is the truth.

That is usually beyond the realm of believability.