The Republic Is Saved.

[spenser1058]

So, apparently Andrew Yang isn’t going to be serious about running for president again now that he’s going to be an independent. So it’s all up to Secretary Mayor Pete now!

@dcluley98may have a conundrum in 2028!

Edited October 6, 2021 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

I don't think he thought he had a legit shot at winning. It is more about a platform to debate policy and get it out there for the other parties and the rest of the country to see. 

So I hope they let him talk in the debates this time more.  Crazy how much changed since last election.  The Covid Relief funds were actually a pretty big proof of concept of UBI. And yeah, we don't know full consequences of everything.  But it seems like the concept of giving people money actually made sense. 

[orange87]

On 10/5/2021 at 10:07 PM, spenser1058 said:

So, apparently Andrew Yang isn’t going to be serious about running for president again now that he’s going to be an independent. So it’s all up to Secretary Mayor Pete now!

@dcluley98may have a conundrum in 2028!

Bernie Sanders is an Independent and he ran for the Democrat Presidential nomination multiple times.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, orange87 said:

Bernie Sanders is an Independent and he ran for the Democrat Presidential nomination multiple times.

He switched to Democratic while running for prez, tho (both times). Bernie’s one of the few I’d give that pass to, btw. Say what you will about Bernie, he votes with the Democrats almost all the time. I would also add he has supported Biden better than the dadgum “centrists”. But don’t get me started.

I give Andrew points for UBI but in retrospect he seems not the, ummmm, Gator sort who “in all kinds of weather we’ll all stick together” so I will leave him to @dcluley98 who doesn’t like politics anyway.

[orange87]

Welp. This is the final straw with me for Trump. Trump says Haitian migrants "probably have AIDS" and letting them in "is a death wish." I'm done with Don the Con. #LockHimUp

[dcluley98]

Andrew Yang is quite "unpolitician" and that was one of the main things I liked about him. More actual ideas than politicking. And that is also the main reason he will never get elected. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Welp. This is the final straw with me for Trump. Trump says Haitian migrants "probably have AIDS" and letting them in "is a death wish." I'm done with Don the Con. #LockHimUp

Long before I knew anything about Trump’s politics, I had little use for him. He’s just the definition of tacky verging on disgusting. 

What was most humorous was how many people think he’s the embodiment of wealth when he’s exactly the opposite. 

Although I come from a working-class background, I was quite fortunate to go to both school and college with kids from old-money families who acted nothing like Trump.

Trump is like a poorly-written TV show about rich people. He’s much more “Dallas” than “Brideshead Revisited”. 

There was a time when new money like that would have made the investment for their kids to learn how to move in such a world. Why the Trumps never did, I don’t know, but it’s just gauche.


 

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

He switched to Democratic while running for prez, tho (both times). Bernie’s one of the few I’d give that pass to, btw. Say what you will about Bernie, he votes with the Democrats almost all the time. I would also add he has supported Biden better than the dadgum “centrists”. But don’t get me started.

I give Andrew points for UBI but in retrospect he seems not the, ummmm, Gator sort who “in all kinds of weather we’ll all stick together” so I will leave him to @dcluley98 who doesn’t like politics anyway.

He is also a big part of the reason wh we called Donald Trump rather than Hillary Clinton "President" for four years. 

I give "Old BS" a pass on nothing. 

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

He is also a big part of the reason wh we called Donald Trump rather than Hillary Clinton "President" for four years. 

I give "Old BS" a pass on nothing. 

Hillary, just like Al Gore before her, ran a lousy campaign (and I liked both - I worked for Al in TN). Both were fine at governing but couldn’t campaign their way out of a paper sack. Hillary, for example, didn’t go to the Upper Midwest when there had been alerts about it. As for Al, Joe Lieberman instead of Bob Graham - enuff said.

[JFW657]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Hillary, just like Al Gore before her, ran a lousy campaign (and I liked both - I worked for Al in TN). Both were fine at governing but couldn’t campaign their way out of a paper sack. Hillary, for example, didn’t go to the Upper Midwest when there had been alerts about it. As for Al, Joe Lieberman instead of Bob Graham - enuff said.

Nonsense.

Old BS divided the Democrat voters at a time when party unity was the most important it had ever been.

He proposed things that would have never had a snowball's chance in Miami of passing Congress had he been elected in 2016.

All he was interested in was furthering his own political career.

But I have seen how progressive Bernie babies behave just like Trumpers when it comes to defending their emty suited hero. 

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Nonsense.

Old BS divided the Democrat voters at a time when party unity was the most important it had ever been.

He proposed things that would have never had a snowball's chance in Miami of passing Congress had he been elected in 2016.

All he was interested in was furthering his own political career.

But I have seen how progressive Bernie babies behave just like Trumpers when it comes to defending their emty suited hero. 

Yep, and yet Bernie’s supporting Joe in Congress and what’s your fellow “moderate” Joe Manchin doing? 

[JFW657]

42 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Yep, and yet Bernie’s supporting Joe in Congress and what’s your fellow “moderate” Joe Manchin doing? 

In case it has escaped you, WV is a conservative state that elected him as a Democrat Senator.

Manchin is not there to push an agenda or fall in line with Progressives. 

He's legislating the way the people who elected him want and expect him to. 

And I agree with him, BTW.

All this gimme gimme gimme crap is too much. 

Give these people an inch and they'll be grabbing for a mile. 

Joe Biden is a moderate who's falling in line with the Progressives for other, likely more complex political reasons.

I think he knows that much of what they're demanding will be bargained away anyhow, but he has to look as though he's going along in order to placate them. 

Otherwise, like the Republican Party's teabaggers of a few years ago, they'll be willing to divide and possibly destroy the party for their own ends. 

[prahaboheme]

12 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Yep, and yet Bernie’s supporting Joe in Congress and what’s your fellow “moderate” Joe Manchin doing? 

Radical centrists, such as Joe M and Kirsten S, have shown that they have no interest in actual legislation and are just trying to hold onto their seats with whatever recent leverage they have.

[JFW657]

"Radical centrists".....   

[orange87]

38 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

"Radical centrists".....   

Radical centrist definitely makes sense. Like radical ideologues who believe the truth ALWAYS lies on the left or right; a radical centrist believes the truth ALWAYS lies in the center. Radical centrists think they're "above it all" and obstruct both the left and right and only support incomplete or half measures that don't accomplish much. Manchin in particular loves the new found attention he's getting and it really strokes his ego. And once people come to a compromise on his half measures, he just moves the goal post again because he doesn't actually want anything to get done. Manchin just likes the attention he's getting and the "power" he has. Note: the power he has isn't the power to get things done, it's the power to keep things from getting done. But as long as it's power of any kind, and it gets him attention, that's all this career politician fossil from a dumpy irrelevant state cares about.

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, orange87 said:

Radical centrist definitely makes sense. Like radical ideologues who believe the truth ALWAYS lies on the left or right; a radical centrist believes the truth ALWAYS lies in the center. Radical centrists think they're "above it all" and obstruct both the left and right and only support incomplete or half measures that don't accomplish much. Manchin in particular loves the new found attention he's getting and it really strokes his ego. And once people come to a compromise on his half measures, he just moves the goal post again because he doesn't actually want anything to get done. Manchin just likes the attention he's getting and the "power" he has. Note: the power he has isn't the power to get things done, it's the power to keep things from getting done. But as long as it's power of any kind, and it gets him attention, that's all this career politician fossil from a dumpy irrelevant state cares about.

So, how long have you been personally acquainted with Joe Manchin? 

I ask because the things you say about him and his personal thoughts and feelings, indicate a close, personal relationship, during which you've had long in-depth discussions about them.

As for your take on centrism, there are huge flaws in your logic. 

People are basically self-interested. They generally tend to place much less importance on the needs and desires of other groups than those of their own.

In our country of 350 million people, there are generally, basically, two camps.... "the left" and "the right".  

You stated that centrists "...obstruct both the left and right and only support incomplete or half measures that don't accomplish much."

Back when the entire Democratic Party still represented common sense and fairness, and were willing to compromise with the Republicans (which most of them still are BTW, even though it has not been reciprocated since the 80's) I felt the same way you do.

Pick a side and don't straddle the fence!!! 

But since the rise of the self interested, extemist  progressive far left, which is nothing more than the opposite side of the same coin as the self interested, extremist ultra-conservative far right, I have changed or "moderated" my position.

I have come to understand that legislation which makes each side both happy and unhappy at the same time, is not only the definition of fairness, but the only practical way to maintain democracy. 

If things were to get accomplished that only make half of the country happy while keeping he other half unhappy or "marginalized", a word that virtue signalers love to repeat ad nauseum, the selfish extremists on either side would be ecstatically happy as long as it was only their side's stuff that got accomplished.

Conversely, if their own side always got the short end of the stick, they'd be howling about how unfair it was.

All we'd ever hear is half the country pissing and moaning while the other half gloated and we'd be in a constant state of internal strife.

I don't see that as an accomplishment. 

Common sense alone dictates that when you have millions of people sharing the same piece of real estate, each side has to be willing to give and take.

This country does not "belong" to one side at the exclusion of the other.

We're all American citizens and as such have the right to have our concerns addressed but we've never been guaranteed to get everything we want.. 

Unfortunately, our modern "civilization" has bred a society of people who are too self-centered to be willing to meet halfway.

We hate "the other side" so much that "we" want to stick it to "them" by stomping our side's agenda down their throats with the heels of our boots.  

If that's the kind of country you want to live in, have at it.

Please just not here.

Maybe Afghanistan would be more to some people's liking.

.

Edited October 9, 2021 by JFW657

[spenser1058]

C’mon down to PRIDE today, @JFW657and have a FABULOUS Democratic day!

[orange87]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

C’mon down to PRIDE today, @JFW657and have a FABULOUS Democratic day!

He'll drive halfway there. It's the moderate thing to do.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

C’mon down to PRIDE today, @JFW657and have a FABULOUS Democratic day!

I would be more than happy to go downtown and stroll aound through the crowds today, Pride festival or otherwise.

But because the traffic and parking will be next to impossible, I'm not going anywhere near downtown this weekend. 

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

He'll drive halfway there. It's the moderate thing to do.

That was moderately clever.

But only halfway.   

[spenser1058]

Was JFW’s favorite song growing up “I’ll Meet You Halfway” by the Partridge Family? Enquiring minds want to know!

[JFW657]

25 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Was JFW’s favorite song growing up “I’ll Meet You Halfway” by the Partridge Family? Enquiring minds want to know!

I don't even remember that song and, outside of Susan Dey , I never liked anything about The Partridge Family. 

Least of all their music.

[spenser1058]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I don't even remember that song and, outside of Susan Dey , I never liked anything about The Partridge Family. 

Least of all their music.

“Meet Me Halfway” by Kenny Loggins?

[spenser1058]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Meet_You_Halfway

[spenser1058]

I was just wondering if @orange87 is old enough to have any idea who the Partridge Family were?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU7psHBVyQE

I’m also wondering if the guy in the audience making goo goo eyes at Susan Dey is a very young Michael Ontkean, later of The Rookies, Twin Peaks and the oh so controversial film Making Love?

Edited October 9, 2021 by spenser1058

[orange87]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I was just wondering if @orange87 is old enough to have any idea who the Partridge Family were?

I know they had a TV show and made music in the 60s. I only know that because my dad made us watch "old stuff" when I was growing up. I grew up in a very strict and sheltered Catholic household. It was enough to turn anyone into an atheist. lol The '87 in my name is the year I was born FWIW.