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The Republic Is Saved.


spenser1058

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13 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Stop in at the award-winning, Smithsonian-endorsed Orange County Regional History Center sometime. You’d be amazed just how much has happened here.

Much of Orlando's significant architectural history (which is what I assumed you meant) has been saved with a few notable exceptions.

But then, every city in America has lost architectural gems to progress.

It's not just Orlando or Buddy Dyer.

And not every building built before 1970 needs to be saved.

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5 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Much of Orlando's significant architectural history (which is what I assumed you meant) has been saved with a few notable exceptions.

But then, every city in America has lost architectural gems to progress.

It's not just Orlando or Buddy Dyer.

And not every building built before 1970 needs to be saved.

This administration has ignored (or worse) the entire downtown core since His Sainted Highness took office. Cities that take their historic areas seriously do not pretend they simply don’t exist and do nothing to preserve them. Find me a speech (just one.! In eighteen years -shouldn’t be hard) where  His Exaltedness laid out his vision for the historic downtown core. Go ahead, I’ll wait (after all, we’ve done so for 18 years).

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1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

This administration has ignored (or worse) the entire downtown core since His Sainted Highness took office. Cities that take their historic areas seriously do not pretend they simply don’t exist and do nothing to preserve them. Find me a speech (just one.! In eighteen years -shouldn’t be hard) where  His Exaltedness laid out his vision for the historic downtown core. Go ahead, I’ll wait (after all, we’ve done so for 18 years).

Speeches are just talk and don't mean a lot. 

No actual, significant historic structure has been bulldozed under Buddy's direction.

A couple of crumbling old rat-infested 1940's era drug stores and an old dilapidated baseball stadium don't count.

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The corrupt career politician dementia patient has been declared the winner by the media who doesn’t decide who’s won elections.

The pro-American alpha male who dares to defend himself from the abusively biased propagandists masquerading as journalists is fighting a losing battle against massive voter fraud and censorship.

Edited by orange87
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2 hours ago, orange87 said:

The corrupt career politician dementia patient has been declared the winner by the media who doesn’t decide who’s won elections.

The pro-American alpha male who dares to defend himself from the abusively biased propagandists masquerading as journalists is fighting a losing battle against massive voter fraud and censorship.

I think the term used by the Brooks Brothers Riot guys in 2000 covers this ( and at least Al won the popular vote):

SORE LOSERMAN

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Georgia’s hand recount of the presidential election is about 2/3 complete and local officials report little change so far (remember, Georgia’s Secretary of State in charge of the election is a Republican, as is the governor).


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/16/us/joe-biden-trump#with-georgias-recount-two-thirds-done-local-officials-report-no-meaningful-changes-in-results

From The New York Times 
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22 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Georgia’s hand recount of the presidential election is about 2/3 complete and local officials report little change so far (remember, Georgia’s Secretary of State in charge of the election is a Republican, as is the governor).


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/16/us/joe-biden-trump#with-georgias-recount-two-thirds-done-local-officials-report-no-meaningful-changes-in-results

From The New York Times 

Its irrelevant. They are really eating their own. One minute, you are a star and the next you are a RINO. 

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Imagine if the roles were reversed and a (D) President or Senator said or did any of those things. The difference is that Democrats hold their own party accountable. The silence of the Republican party speaks volumes. I don't believe Dem's have anyone nasty enough to return the favor in 2024, but it would do everyone good to remember the tables can always be turned.

On 11/15/2020 at 4:40 PM, orange87 said:

The corrupt career politician dementia patient has been declared the winner by the media who doesn’t decide who’s won elections.

The pro-American alpha male who dares to defend himself from the abusively biased propagandists masquerading as journalists is fighting a losing battle against massive voter fraud and censorship.

1) Where was this energy in 2016 (and pretty much every election prior when the media calls the Presidential race)?

2) Where's the voter fraud?  https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/ Even Trump's lawyers admit they are unable to produce any evidence lol. Also, I've noticed people who use "alpha male" as a regular part of their vocabulary tend to have their own inner turmoil going on with masculinity... Yuck. We've already seen Trump's big talk amounts to nothing but empty words. Your emperor has no clothes.

3) Trump lost the popular vote TWICE and you're still acting clueless. When is it finally going to sink in that the real "silent majority" have spoken and they don't want Trump?? I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans out there who voted down the party-line except this time they no longer want a clown representing them or the country anymore. Biden is palatable/middle of the road enough for Republicans to make the switch. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/11/02/mccain-why-republican-votes-biden-column/6113484002/

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On 11/15/2020 at 4:40 PM, orange87 said:

The corrupt career politician dementia patient has been declared the winner by the media who doesn’t decide who’s won elections.

The pro-American alpha male who dares to defend himself from the abusively biased propagandists masquerading as journalists is fighting a losing battle against massive voter fraud and censorship.

The reality in gov't is that for every 1 person who enters and stays in politics to make a difference and help people, there are thousands who are there to get rich or get what's best for them & people who look or think like them.

I think a lot of people enter politics as the first and wind up the latter.  There are plenty that enter the latter and stay an even worse version of the latter.  The sad part is a lot enter the first and leave because of the latter.

It's quite a tough task to enter saying "I'm an ABC person, but I fight for A-Z people" and not only mean it, but do it.

It's even tougher when there is only a 2 party system that says "I am an A person and I hate Z people, so everyone from B to maybe E will at least get lip service and everyone from F to Z is dead to me.  GO TEAM A!" because they really don't have to work with anyone except their own team.

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1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

The reality in gov't is that for every 1 person who enters and stays in politics to make a difference and help people, there are thousands who are there to get rich or get what's best for them & people who look or think like them.

I think a lot of people enter politics as the first and wind up the latter.  There are plenty that enter the latter and stay an even worse version of the latter.  The sad part is a lot enter the first and leave because of the latter.

It's quite a tough task to enter saying "I'm an ABC person, but I fight for A-Z people" and not only mean it, but do it.

It's even tougher when there is only a 2 party system that says "I am an A person and I hate Z people, so everyone from B to maybe E will at least get lip service and everyone from F to Z is dead to me.  GO TEAM A!" because they really don't have to work with anyone except their own team.

The current textbook case to me is Lindsey Graham. Obviously, I disagree with him on a lot but while he was John McCain’s sidekick you really got the feeling he was trying to do the right thing.

Now that he’s pandering to The Donald, he’s totally fallen down the rathole (trying to interfere in an election not even in your own state- really?) 

Not to get too far in the weeds, but Anne Applebaum, an American journalist married to a former Polish cabinet member has written a lot of this (it’s the latest variation on how the Germans succumbed to Hitler). The difference, of course, is that it has finally gotten to us (on a nationwide basis- things like “The Lost Cause” have been causing problems in the South for a long time).

A two-party system isn’t necessarily the problem. What IS the problem, as former president Obama noted this week, is the internet and it’s easily accessed spin-offs.

When you no longer even have to share the same facts, the politicians have to work in that universe. Once upon a time, senators from different parties worked on shared issues together. If you do that now, you’ll get primaried by a right-wing wacko who is quite likely to win. (Yes, it can happen on the left, but the right has given in to its wingnuts more and longer than the left - despite what FOX News says, the Clintons and Obama are much more centrist than the Donald will ever be. Ironically, William F. Buckley once went to great lengths to keep the GOP’s wackos at bay; today, the party’s leaders are afraid of them. )

Having multiple parties didn’t keep Britain out of the Brexit mess. The internet isn’t going away and it’s an open question how democracy can deal with it.

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The current textbook case to me is Lindsey Graham. Obviously, I disagree with him on a lot but while he was John McCain’s sidekick you really got the feeling he was trying to do the right thing.

Now that he’s pandering to The Donald, he’s totally fallen down the rathole (trying to interfere in an election not even in your own state- really?) 

Not to get too far in the weeds, but Anne Applebaum, an American journalist married to a former Polish cabinet member has written a lot of this (it’s the latest variation on how the Germans succumbed to Hitler). The difference, of course, is that it has finally gotten to us (on a nationwide basis- things like “The Lost Cause” have been causing problems in the South for a long time).

A two-party system isn’t necessarily the problem. What IS the problem, as former president Obama noted this week, is the internet and it’s easily accessed spin-offs.

When you no longer even have to share the same facts, the politicians have to work in that universe. Once upon a time, senators from different parties worked on shared issues together. If you do that now, you’ll get primaried by a right-wing wacko who is quite likely to win. (Yes, it can happen on the left, but the right has given in to its wingnuts more and longer than the left - despite what FOX News says, the Clintons and Obama are much more centrist than the Donald will ever be. Ironically, William F. Buckley once went to great lengths to keep the GOP’s wackos at bay; today, the party’s leaders are afraid of them. )

Having multiple parties didn’t keep Britain out of the Brexit mess. The internet isn’t going away and it’s an open question how democracy can deal with it.

The internet is a tool, the problem is the us. Take away the internet and social media, we would still act like fools. Think back to the 9/11 truthers, the disbelief in the mood landing and JFK assassination, denial of the holocaust. All pre social media and the internet as we know it. 

Separately, Donald Trump is a centrist. He doesn't believe anything the typical conservative does. A lot of his views on trade, immigration were more in line with traditional democrats prior to 2016. Personally, I think he is pro choice but won't admit it. He used to want to raise taxes on hedge funds because "they are getting away with murder". He has moved to the right but I don't believe he has changed at his core. 

 

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2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

The reality in gov't is that for every 1 person who enters and stays in politics to make a difference and help people, there are thousands who are there to get rich or get what's best for them & people who look or think like them.

I think a lot of people enter politics as the first and wind up the latter.  There are plenty that enter the latter and stay an even worse version of the latter.  The sad part is a lot enter the first and leave because of the latter.

It's quite a tough task to enter saying "I'm an ABC person, but I fight for A-Z people" and not only mean it, but do it.

It's even tougher when there is only a 2 party system that says "I am an A person and I hate Z people, so everyone from B to maybe E will at least get lip service and everyone from F to Z is dead to me.  GO TEAM A!" because they really don't have to work with anyone except their own team.

I think the greater problem is people wildly overestimate the importance of the president and congress in their day to day lives. Not to over generalize, but most people's lives wouldn't change if Trump was the president or Biden. What was the turnout in Orlando? Now compare that to the mayoral races. It's probably half.

If law and order or police brutality is important to you, but you focus on the presidential race (which has no control over the local police department) and skip out on the mayors race who actually controls the police department, you area lost soul. 

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Orange County had about a 73% turnout in the presidential election (I haven’t seen numbers for Orlando proper yet.

The last Orlando mayoral election was about 9%. Of course, that’s because Buddy intentionally moved it to the graveyard of election days  (it’s easier to pick your voters that way because the average voter isn’t aware it’s an Election Day).

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2 hours ago, jack said:

I think the greater problem is people wildly overestimate the importance of the president and congress in their day to day lives. Not to over generalize, but most people's lives wouldn't change if Trump was the president or Biden. What was the turnout in Orlando? Now compare that to the mayoral races. It's probably half.

If law and order or police brutality is important to you, but you focus on the presidential race (which has no control over the local police department) and skip out on the mayors race who actually controls the police department, you area lost soul. 

My comment was about politicians from the ground up.

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Woohoo! House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, generally considered one of the most effective occupants of the job by political scientists and historians in the modern era (not to mention the highest-ranking woman in the government until Kamala is sworn in), will be keeping the gavel for another term.

While Nancy’s skill in the job almost demands she stay, it’s probably time for #2 Steny Hoyer to yield to the next generation of leadership, but apparently that’s not happening yet.

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Five Thirty Eight has a fascinating look at just how Atlanta and its suburbs turned Georgia blue (it didn’t happen all at once, btw - the numbers have been trending that way, ever so slowly, for most of this century):

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-georgia-turned-blue/

What’s interesting to note is that eight of ten of Atlanta’s surrounding suburban counties have flipped.

Meanwhile, here in Orlando, while the two counties to our north and south have flipped, counties to the east and west and further beyond are remaining red so far.

Retirees, of course , play a bigger role in the region here than in metro Atlanta.

Also, because Florida counties are larger (GA and FL are roughly the same size in land area but GA has more than twice as many counties), it’s harder to flip a county here. 4 Corners, for example, with a large number of Disney workers, should be prime Democratic territory. As part of Polk, however, the number of retirees in the other parts of the county, still vastly outnumber those on the north border.

Brevard County’s population and diversity should impact it as well but hasn’t so far. 

It will be interesting to study this phenomenon going forward.

 
 
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On the bright side, Trump made an impact on our federal judiciary in one term that is nearly equal to some Presidents in two terms. Trump added one more SCOTUS than Obama, and roughly the same number of Circuit judges. I'm sure Mitch will ram through even more federal judges before inauguration day.

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 1.01.31 PM.png

Edited by orange87
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7 hours ago, HankStrong said:

The reality in gov't is that for every 1 person who enters and stays in politics to make a difference and help people, there are thousands who are there to get rich or get what's best for them & people who look or think like them.

I think a lot of people enter politics as the first and wind up the latter.  There are plenty that enter the latter and stay an even worse version of the latter.  The sad part is a lot enter the first and leave because of the latter.

This. And even worse then that, even when the few who are really trying to make a difference and help people, doing it through regulation is just sooo difficult to figure out how to make a rule that cannot be abused and manipulated to go against the very cause you're fighting towards. As a recent example, the push for vaping regulations and whatnot because of the epidemic was pushed by none other then Phillip Morris. Minimum wage increases are often pushed by Walmart to shut down the small competition. These are just the giant examples, when you go with smaller rules its even easier for companies to help legislators sound like they're doing a great thing for the environment, for example, while pushing a corrupt crony capitalist agenda...

7 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The current textbook case to me is Lindsey Graham. Obviously, I disagree with him on a lot but while he was John McCain’s sidekick you really got the feeling he was trying to do the right thing.

Now that he’s pandering to The Donald, he’s totally fallen down the rathole (trying to interfere in an election not even in your own state- really?) 

You say it like President Trump wasn't trying to do what HE believed was right. Unlike the rest of the career politicans, there is no question he wasn't doing any of this for money. He had to divest himself from business interests and was leaving the life of a celebrity with private gated golf resorts that he clearly loves to hang out in... far away from any immigrants or anyone else he doesn't want there if thats what he desired. There is no doubt he took a step down in quality of life to fight for what HE believed in. No doubt you disagree with what he believed in, but he did it because he wanted to do the right thing, and at most help make even more of a name for himself like Regan.

The John McCains of the Republican party are why I, like so many others I know, felt we HAD to vote Obama even though we disagreed with so many of his views. The very last thing we needed at that point in time was another war hawk, socially conservative, fiscally liberal president like McCain was (and Bush before him). And thats why so many split out of the GOP into the Tea party, until they later recombined under a very heavily modified Republican party vision closer to what Trump was and resoundingly rejecting the John McCains and Jeb Bushs.

5 hours ago, jack said:

Separately, Donald Trump is a centrist. He doesn't believe anything the typical conservative does. A lot of his views on trade, immigration were more in line with traditional democrats prior to 2016. Personally, I think he is pro choice but won't admit it. He used to want to raise taxes on hedge funds because "they are getting away with murder". He has moved to the right but I don't believe he has changed at his core. 

 

Yup, Pre-tea party, Trump was a New York Democrat. Like many in this country, he didn't like the direction the democrats have started to turn, and its an issue for the Democrats... its why they lost seats in the house. Trump no doubt isn't the most likable person with his rhetoric... it cost him my vote in the first go around and made me vote third party. But the democrats philosophies of social justice warriors and socialism just isn't popular with the American public.

If these election results are to be believed, Trump was extremely popular with the Republicans, getting MORE votes this time than any president ever before. However, many people also felt strongly they disliked him, and voted specifically against him, and not the blue party line, if we're believing the results. Definitely no blue wave.

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2 hours ago, aent said:

You say it like President Trump wasn't trying to do what HE believed was right. Unlike the rest of the career politicans, there is no question he wasn't doing any of this for money. He had to divest himself from business interests and was leaving the life of a celebrity with private gated golf resorts that he clearly loves to hang out in... far away from any immigrants or anyone else he doesn't want there if thats what he desired. There is no doubt he took a step down in quality of life to fight for what HE believed in. No doubt you disagree with what he believed in, but he did it because he wanted to do the right thing, and at most help make even more of a name for himself like Regan.

I find it puzzling how some people actually think Trump believes in anything other than self promotion and self advancement.

And BTW, contrary to your claim, Trump DID NOT divest himself from his business interests, unless you call turning control over to Don Jr and Eric "divesting himself".

From Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2017/01/11/donald-trump-will-hand-over-business/?sh=5c4712a760d7

From Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-finance/trump-says-wont-divest-from-his-business-while-president-idUSKBN14V21I

As for hanging out at his golf resorts.... that's pretty much all he did most of the time anyway and I seriously doubt doing "the right thing" was ever a concern with him.

Doing the right thing to line his pockets is more like it.

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On 11/20/2020 at 7:35 PM, spenser1058 said:

Sorry @HankStrong, after today I’m a Michigan fan for life for honesty and honoring the Constitution. GO BLUE 

*sings Michigan Fight Song in bad impression of Gerald Ford*. Good heavens, even the DeVos family did the right thing when it mattered. Meanwhile, there’s Rudy....

Wow, that was both hurtful and rash.  Aren't they pulling back on that?

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