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The Republic Is Saved.


spenser1058

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You can’t blame Hollywood for everything. Perhaps it’s time to come to the realization that there is actually a sanction of Americans, finally enabled by a demagogue, who just are racists, anarchist, vastly undereducated, and willing to put man over country. 
The sooner the country stops making excuses for why these people exist, the quicker it will be to send them back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

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5 hours ago, W7edwin said:

because some of it is funded by the military, in which succeeded in breeding the type of men we saw crawling up the walls of the capital 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-entertainment_complex

There may be some connection there, but I was talking more about the way callousness and cynicism are glorified and treated as admirable human traits.

And that IMO, doesn't just apply to just the TV/film industries. 

The music and (especially) the video gaming industry are rife with not only violence glorification and imagery, but just a kind of crass, hardness that was not as prevalent 50 years or more ago.

I don't think it's a very big mystery how, if you bombard society with that kind of subliminal programming constantly, while pushing the boundaries more and more as time passes, it can begin to influence the way people see the world and even how they behave.

Trump himself is even a part of that world, having been the star of a very popular TV show in which people were callously dismissed and discarded like trash with the infamous tag line "You're fired", if they didn't meet certain standards. 

4 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

You can’t blame Hollywood for everything. Perhaps it’s time to come to the realization that there is actually a sanction of Americans, finally enabled by a demagogue, who just are racists, anarchist, vastly undereducated, and willing to put man over country. 
The sooner the country stops making excuses for why these people exist, the quicker it will be to send them back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

Those kinds of people have always existed and always will. 

Trump didn't create them.

Yes, he gave them the perception of legitimacy allowing them to "come out of the closet", but that's all.

They were already here.

IMO, one of the factors that have created these kinds of people over many years, is growing up and learning how to perceive the world in an ever increasingly hard-nosed society, where being an a-hole is glorified by a pop culture which Hollywood is a major part of both creating and propagating.

Throw the ideological differences which have divided us into two camps, both with opposing views about what is good and bad for the country into the mixture, and it's not surprising that you get a percentage of people who see the world in terms of us vs. them and who are willing to stomp all over the rights of others to get the outcome they want.

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1 hour ago, orange87 said:

I figured out why the riot got out of hand. They didn't hire enough social workers to rush to the scene.

Got out of hand?

4 people are dead and our symbol of democratic values was trashed. Your sarcasm, nihilism and overall lack of truth is unfortunately a sad reality that this country will have to clean itself up from for a very, very long time. 

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5 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Got out of hand?

4 people are dead and our symbol of democratic values was trashed. Your sarcasm, nihilism and overall lack of truth is unfortunately a sad reality that this country will have to clean itself up from for a very, very long time. 

Unfortunately we now have to add another person to the list, "Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick passed away due to injuries sustained while on-duty."  https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick

I heard one of the rioters bashed the officer over the head with a fire extinguisher.

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On 1/6/2021 at 8:56 PM, JFW657 said:

A lot of this can be tied to what society in general has become.

We've become a nation largely  comprised of crass jerks who see nothing wrong in what was once considered abhorrent behavior,

Nobody respects anyone else anymore. 

Especially people they don't know personally.

I think the entertainment industry has helped to steer us in that direction as well.

We have always had jerks and kooks. Now, we can see it better since they broadcast it on social media. 

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1 minute ago, jack said:

We have always had jerks and kooks. Now, we can see it better since they broadcast it on social media. 

Not to mention when they end up as President. Whatever you may think of Joe Biden’s politics, at least he acts like a grownup.

Hopefully, the Republican Party will at least start looking for civilized candidates again.

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1 hour ago, jack said:

We have always had jerks and kooks. Now, we can see it better since they broadcast it on social media. 

That's true and I said as much in a previous post.

I do think that they represent a larger percentage of society than they used to.

6 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Unfortunately we now have to add another person to the list, "Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick passed away due to injuries sustained while on-duty."  https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick

I heard one of the rioters bashed the officer over the head with a fire extinguisher.

If that's true, I hope they catch him and he gets life in prison.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

If that's true, I hope they catch him and he gets life in prison.

If what's true? It's not like the officer passed away from natural causes or something... the link takes you directly to the USCP's government website:

"Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.  The death of Officer Sicknick will be investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department’s Homicide Branch, the USCP, and our federal partners. "

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17 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

If what's true? It's not like the officer passed away from natural causes or something... the link takes you directly to the USCP's government website:

"Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.  The death of Officer Sicknick will be investigated by the Metropolitan Police Department’s Homicide Branch, the USCP, and our federal partners. "

Yes, I know he died and it was somehow a result of the mob insurrection. 

I was responding specifically to this....

8 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I heard one of the rioters bashed the officer over the head with a fire extinguisher.

You said you heard it happened, not that it was a known fact.

Hence my response "If that's true....."

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1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

Yes, I know he died and it was somehow a result of the mob insurrection. 

I was responding specifically to this....

You said you heard it happened, not that it was a known fact.

Hence my response "If that's true....."

Oh... A reporter put that info out there and the officer is trending on Twitter.

Not sure why it matters in what manner they took his life - the person(s) responsible should be charged regardless.

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39 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Oh... A reporter put that info out there and the officer is trending on Twitter.

Not sure why it matters in what manner they took his life - the person(s) responsible should be charged regardless.

Well, if the officer died from some internal cause like say, a heart attack or a stroke, etc., that was brought on by the events as a whole, then how do you prosecute an individual?

What I meant was, that if he died from a blow to the head from a fire extinguisher, then some individual had to have done that.

I agree that as many of those people as they can identify should be arrested and prosecuted.

But they cannot charge them en masse with the cop's murder if he died of some internal malfunction or if one person attacked him.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Well, if the officer died from some internal cause like say, a heart attack or a stroke, etc., that was brought on by the events as a whole, then how do you prosecute an individual?

What I meant was, that if he died from a blow to the head from a fire extinguisher, then some individual had to have done that.

I agree that as many of those people as they can identify should be arrested and prosecuted.

But they cannot charge them en masse with the cop's murder if he died of some internal malfunction or if one person attacked him.

There is precedent of people getting in fights, one dies from a previous condition, and the other person still goes to jail for a long time. The idea is that the fight caused the heart attack at that moment. It does not matter that the victim could have had a heart attack later that day, the next day, etc. But that fight caused it to happen at that moment. 

 

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1 minute ago, jack said:

There is precedent of people getting in fights, one dies from a previous condition, and the other person still goes to jail for a long time. The idea is that the fight caused the heart attack at that moment. It does not matter that the victim could have had a heart attack later that day, the next day, etc. But that fight caused it to happen at that moment. 

Right, but that applies only to the one person who was in a fight with the victim.

What I'm saying is that if the cop had died of something like a heart attack, they cannot charge every single rioter they arrest with murder.

At least I don't think they can.

If he died from a blow to the head with a fire extinguisher and they catch who did it, I believe that person would be the only one charged with his death.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Right, but that applies only to the one person who was in a fight with the victim.

What I'm saying is that if the cop had died of something like a heart attack, they cannot charge every single rioter they arrest with murder.

At least I don't think they can.

If he died from a blow to the head with a fire extinguisher and they catch who did it, I believe that person would be the only one charged with his death.

Well, Good Samaritan laws can compel a bystander to aid the officer. If they don't, the penalty is typically just a fine. I don't know if this law exists in DC though.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Right, but that applies only to the one person who was in a fight with the victim.

What I'm saying is that if the cop had died of something like a heart attack, they cannot charge every single rioter they arrest with murder.

At least I don't think they can.

If he died from a blow to the head with a fire extinguisher and they catch who did it, I believe that person would be the only one charged with his death.

I think I understand what you're saying, but USCP officials are literally telling you that he was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. The rioter(s) caused his death, period. Just seemed like a weird statement to say, well if it's true I hope they get life in prison as if there was any doubt to the cause of his death. I don't want to go much further into this because I feel like it takes focus away from the victim, so I'll leave it at that.

Regardless, this guy senselessly lost his life just for doing his job. Meanwhile his President puts out a message saying he understands the mob and loves them as they stormed the Capitol.

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1 minute ago, nite owℓ said:

I think I understand what you're saying, but USCP officials are literally telling you that he was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. The rioter(s) caused his death, period. Just seemed like a weird statement to say, well if it's true I hope they get life in prison as if there was any doubt to the cause of his death. I don't want to go much further into this because I feel like it takes focus away from the victim, so I'll leave it at that.

Regardless, this guy senselessly lost his life just for doing his job. Meanwhile his President puts out a message saying he understands the mob and loves them as they stormed the Capitol.

He also did not mention his death in statements.

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3 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

I think I understand what you're saying, but USCP officials are literally telling you that he was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. The rioter(s) caused his death, period. Just seemed like a weird statement to say, well if it's true I hope they get life in prison as if there was any doubt to the cause of his death. I don't want to go much further into this because I feel like it takes focus away from the victim, so I'll leave it at that.

Regardless, this guy senselessly lost his life just for doing his job. Meanwhile his President puts out a message saying he understands the mob and loves them as they stormed the Capitol.

How does the statement from your above quote....

"...he was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries."

....imply or give one a clue that one person hit him on the head with a fire extinguisher?

It doesn't.

The statement from your quote is very general and even vague in the exact cause of his death, while your earlier statement about the fire extinguisher, is very specific as to what caused his injury.

If it's true that ONE PROTESTER hit him in the head with a fire extinguisher and that caused his death, then (as I said originally) I hope they catch him, prosecute him and put him in prison for life.

Not complicated. :dontknow:

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

He also did not mention his death in statements.

He who?

What are you talking about?

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4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

How does the statement from your above quote....

"...he was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries."

....imply or give one a clue that one person hit him on the head with a fire extinguisher?

It doesn't.

The statement from your quote is very general and even vague in the exact cause of his death, while your earlier statement about the fire extinguisher, is very specific as to what caused his injury.

If it's true that ONE PROTESTER hit him in the head with a fire extinguisher and that caused his death, then (as I said originally) I hope they catch him, prosecute him and put him in prison for life.

Not complicated. :dontknow:

He who?

What are you talking about?

The president did not acknowledge the officer who died.

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Always interesting to go back in time and read some of our old spirited discussions on developments, or in this case, the 2016 Presidential Election. Definitely worth perusing to see where others and even yourself stood during that time (kudos to @John Hargrove FKA castorvx and @JFW657 as well): https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/117843-presidential-election/#comments

I said what I said:

On 11/10/2016 at 11:30 PM, nite owℓ said:

You're very noble, but in my opinion, there is absolutely nothing about this situation to congratulate anyone about it. I'm very worried about what a Trump presidency would do to erode the USA's leadership role in the rest of the world. Not to mention the social ramifications it would have here at home. People wanted change so desperately that they chose to "halve the child in two". IMO, anyone who really loved and valued their country as much as they claim to would never do such a thing. Not to mention, destroying what should have been a historic moment for electing a qualified person as our first woman president is so hateful it's grotesque. I'm in mourning for the progress I thought we had made in this country.

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