Capitol / Financial District / Shockoe Slip

[DalWill]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:29 PM, Icetera said:

Some key takeaways:
 

 

Hear me out...

Virginia, sell the building  so  it can be renovated and repurposed. Plus, there is physical support for the construction of another skyscraper. 

 

[I miss RVA]

10 hours ago, DalWill said:

Hear me out...

Virginia, sell the building  so  it can be renovated and repurposed. Plus, there is physical support for the construction of another skyscraper. 

 

DalWill - you're talking about the Monroe Tower?  

I 100% agree!! The state ABSOLUTELY should sell the building. It should be renovated - perhaps re-clad even - and 100% repurposed. Mixed use or residential would be the way to go. Imagine living in RVA's tallest residential tower! (Not sure if it would be the tallest residential building in the Commonwealth, given some of the impressive residential buildings in NOVA, but still... )

As for the second skyscraper - indeed, the structure was designed to have a twin tower - however - trying to retrofit/bolt on a second building now could be challenging. I'd be concerned about the structural integrity of the foundations, parking structure, etc., on the northern half of the entire base after having sat for four decades. I think the idea was that a second tower would be built within only a few years -- within a decade at most. I'd be a little nervous about applying a second tower to a 40-year-old base structure. If it could be done, fantastic!! I've always wanted to see a second tower there. I just don't know how realistically safe it would be to try to do that after the original structure has been sitting there for 40 years.

[Icetera]

39 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Mixed use or residential would be the way to go. Imagine living in RVA's tallest residential tower! (Not sure if it would be the tallest residential building in the Commonwealth, given some of the impressive residential buildings in NOVA, but still... )

Currently it is still the state's 3rd tallest tower, therefore, it would be the second tallest residential tower after Virginia Beach's.  Tallest over all is the new Capitol One tower in Tyson's Corner.

[I miss RVA]

2 minutes ago, Icetera said:

Currently it is still the state's 3rd tallest tower, therefore, it would be the second tallest residential tower after Virginia Beach's.  Tallest over all is the new Capitol One tower in Tyson's Corner.

Okay - so the Virginia Beach tower IS the tallest residential building in the state. I was wondering where it stacked up, given all the highrises in NOVA. How tall is the Cap One tower in Tysons?

[Icetera]

13 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Okay - so the Virginia Beach tower IS the tallest residential building in the state. I was wondering where it stacked up, given all the highrises in NOVA. How tall is the Cap One tower in Tysons?

Actually, I am incorrect.  I think it was supposed to be the tallest but it is second at 470'.  Westin VAB Town Center is 508'.  There is a proposal that is likely moving forward for a 461' residential tower in Rosslyn, so Monroe would likely end up being 3rd with a theoretical conversion and drop to 4th tallest overall.

[DowntownCoruscant]

The Virginia Beach tower is a bit of a cheat, right? As I recall, Monroe is still taller if you take the highest point capable of being occupied.

FWIW, totally anecdotal, hearsay and the like, but I was talking to someone sort of in the know as far as the GA is concerned, who had talked to someone else with DGS, and the impression I got is it would be very tough to find a buyer for the thing. Not exactly super reliable info, I realize, your mileage may vary.

[Icetera]

6 minutes ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

The Virginia Beach tower is a bit of a cheat, right? As I recall, Monroe is still taller if you take the highest point capable of being occupied.

Kind of, as the rooftop is only 413'.

[I miss RVA]

8 minutes ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

The Virginia Beach tower is a bit of a cheat, right? As I recall, Monroe is still taller if you take the highest point capable of being occupied.

FWIW, totally anecdotal, hearsay and the like, but I was talking to someone sort of in the know as far as the GA is concerned, who had talked to someone else with DGS, and the impression I got is it would be very tough to find a buyer for the thing. Not exactly super reliable info, I realize, your mileage may vary.

I think that can be translated as: "There very well may be a buyer out there who would take the building, even for our asking price, but we're not willing to invest the time or effort into finding said buyer."

I get the impression (if what the person you know is correct about the GA's mindset) that if buyers don't approach the state and plunk down competitive offers, the state would rather spend (read: WASTE) the money to demo the building than put a little bit of elbow grease and maybe spend a few bucks to market the building and attract a buyer. This is most likely due to the difference between the way the government/public sector works as opposed to the private sector. Were the building privately owned, I guarantee you the owner(s) would find a buyer.

Either that or the state is unwilling to part with the land underneath the building.

Edited September 24, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Icetera]

While grabbing some lunch at Potbelly's, I noticed for sale signs on the annoying sliver lot separated by the alley from Gateway Tower.  Looks like the lease for parking operations requires renewal 6/30/22.

https://commonwealthcommercial.com/property/801-e-cary-street/

 

[I miss RVA]

10 minutes ago, Icetera said:

While grabbing some lunch at Potbelly's, I noticed for sale signs on the annoying sliver lot separated by the alley from Gateway Tower.  Looks like the lease for parking operations requires renewal 6/30/22.

https://commonwealthcommercial.com/property/801-e-cary-street/

 

WOW! Notice how in the sale information, they mention that it's zoned B-4. Any REMOTE chance someone would put a "skinny" on that tiny parcel?

[rjp212]

52 minutes ago, Icetera said:

While grabbing some lunch at Potbelly's, I noticed for sale signs on the annoying sliver lot separated by the alley from Gateway Tower.  Looks like the lease for parking operations requires renewal 6/30/22.

https://commonwealthcommercial.com/property/801-e-cary-street/

 

I had lunch at Potbelly's today as well, and was staring at the sign.   Might have just missed you.

I was imagining a thin row of 4-5 story rowhome style buildings.  There's already an abundance of parking garages along Cary, so you could easily get away with minimal parking at this site for residential, etc.

Edited September 24, 2021 by rjp212

[wrldcoupe4]

Nice slideshow with construction updates on the new tower for the General Assembly. Big fan of this one.

https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/photos-general-assembly-building-construction/collection_cd414b4b-f9b6-5a3a-9fb2-310227c8c941.html#34

[I miss RVA]

I stumbled across this while trying to dig up any photos or news stories about the "original" plans for the James Center. The original plan called for FIVE office towers -- four along Cary Street -- as well as two condominium towers to be built near the Downtown Expressway -- including one where the Mullens headquarters now stands.

Does anyone remember reading this particular article in Richmond BizSense from January of 2020 where the investors who purchased the James Center buildings a few years ago has also purchased two swaths of James Center land -- one adjacent to Two James Center on Cary Street -- and the other, a surface parking lot about where one of the condo buildings was originally supposed to be built? This article slipped by me altogether (along with a lot of other things at that time). 

Does anyone know whatever became of this purchase? Apparently there were no development plans at the time -- but I keep holding on to the idea that there is -- charitably -- underdeveloped land smack in the middle of the James Center were office buildings were originally supposed to rise and never did. Those swaths of land -- in the hands of the right owner/developer -- could be the perfect place for something tall with a lot of people density.

Just curious to know if anyone had heard anything about these parcels.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/01/24/james-center-owners-buy-neighboring-parcels-for-nearly-8m/

NOTE: The blue shading is from RBS and are the two parcels that were purchased. The yellow boxes are my edits indicating where there was to be high rise construction in the original 1982-ish plan. I've accounted for three of the additionally proposed four James Center buildings -- one of the condo buildings (given it was originally to be built on the parcel that was purchased south of the current JC complex), the "companion" 21-story building to One James Center - fronting Cary Street and the trapezoidal-shaped office building next to Two James Center on Cary Street that was supposed to be the "centerpiece" building - rising 40 stories. Yes - you read correctly. 40 STORIES. It was an odd shape - like a trapezoid - with the side facing 10th street considerably wider than the side facing inward toward Two James Center -- and the walls on the north and south sides of the building angling in accordingly.

 

[wrldcoupe4]

Haven’t heard any plans with the current ownership. My fear is that they develop the parking lot as a parking deck and that’s it so as to not kill views from the existing buildings with a taller residential or mixed use tower. I don’t see anything being built on the building plazas either. Best hope is the parking lot. 

[DowntownCoruscant]

Developing the plaza areas would be an incredibly unpopular move. Those have been valuable lunchtime meeting or relaxation areas, especially for the food truck crowd.

[ancientcarpenter]

17 minutes ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

Developing the plaza areas would be an incredibly unpopular move. Those have been valuable lunchtime meeting or relaxation areas, especially for the food truck crowd.

Not sure if satire or not...but... am I the only one who works downtown and has never been to that Kanawha plaza for lunch time? I feel like the James Center gives me plenty of food trucks, is in a good spot, and is quite relaxing. I'm not saying Kanawha plaza isn't great, just that I haven't been there and nobody has ever said "let's go to Kanawha plaza for lunch!" ... like, ever. Or am I missing the joke? 

[wrldcoupe4]

Plaza = the James Center green space not Kanawha Plaza. Agree that Kanawha Plaza isn't super popular for lunch, probably because it was a concrete wasteland for most of its existence. 

[Wahoo 07]

I would much rather see Kanawha Plaza developed (as much as it could be) than the James Center green space.  Developing Kanawha would help link the CBD to the riverfront while eliminating an underused space.

[Downtowner]

5 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Plaza = the James Center green space not Kanawha Plaza. Agree that Kanawha Plaza isn't super popular for lunch, probably because it was a concrete wasteland for most of its existence. 

Wasn’t there a plan at one point to develop something more on kanawha plaza then what’s there now? I thought I remember at one point back a while back ago remember a rendering of a building on that land? Correct me if I’m wrong. 

[DowntownCoruscant]

Yeah, salt the earth on Kanawha Plaza for all I care. It’s still not a welcoming space despite the work done on it a few years ago.

19 minutes ago, ancientcarpenter said:

Not sure if satire or not...but... am I the only one who works downtown and has never been to that Kanawha plaza for lunch time? I feel like the James Center gives me plenty of food trucks, is in a good spot, and is quite relaxing. I'm not saying Kanawha plaza isn't great, just that I haven't been there and nobody has ever said "let's go to Kanawha plaza for lunch!" ... like, ever. Or am I missing the joke? 

As previously noted, I was referring to the James Center. Apologies if that was unclear.

I’ve seen people here dump on plaza space every now and then, but they’re  kind of nice for office worker mental health. Fifteen or more years ago, when I worked at Main Street Centre, the plaza was really nice. They’d have lunchtime concerts in the spring - Jimmy Smooth & the Fun Time Band was a favorite. I think the construction of the state parking deck killed that mood to some degree.

Edited January 18, 2022 by DowntownCoruscant

[CitiWalker]

I could see a taller structure going where the pencil parking lot is. As long as the tower is located on the yellow footprint I don't think it would effect  the site lines as much. I am not a pro at this but just my 2 cents.  

[Icetera]

11 minutes ago, CitiWalker said:

I could see a taller structure going where the pencil parking lot is. As long as the tower is located on the yellow footprint I don't think it would effect  the site lines as much. I am not a pro at this but just my 2 cents.  

Exactly what I was thinking.

[upzoningisgood]

1 hour ago, CitiWalker said:

I could see a taller structure going where the pencil parking lot is. As long as the tower is located on the yellow footprint I don't think it would effect  the site lines as much. I am not a pro at this but just my 2 cents.  

Counterpoint: on Loopnet right now, Two and Three James Center don’t charge a premium on a $/sqft/year basis to lease higher floors even though they should have much better views. If the view was an important factor then you think they’d be able to charge more for it but they can’t. So, I don’t think they would bind the property to maintain sight lines.

[Shakman]

Don't forget Three James Center can support additional floors.  Full build out will be double the current height. 

 

What I Miss RVA posted has incorrectly labeled Three James Center as One James Center.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Shakman

[upzoningisgood]

Interesting—did not know that. Unfortunately with how many vacancies there are I doubt that capacity will be needed for some time.