Richmond Resort & Casino

[123fakestreet]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

I’m dispirited by all of the election results.  
 

When  I look at the voting and racial maps of Richmond I’m even more dispirited.  The people who would live near the casino wanted it.  White people elsewhere disenfranchised them again by deciding what is best for them.  I would feel much better about the outcome if those in the area rejected it.  They didn’t.   People who have never even seen this side of Richmond decided for them.    
 

I think the process was a good one. I think having a site, developer and plan decided upon before the referendum was the least creepy thing Richmond has done in a while.   Voting yes on a vague idea then settling for whatever location and operator the city chooses later doesn’t sound like a better option. 

Richmonders like to think they are very progressive but no matter what they want to project to the world with their Bernie bumper stickers, etc at the local level they are really very conservative.  Legislating morality is the domain of conservatives, not progressives, and that's exactly what they did here with this vote.  They are also deathly afraid of change or anything new which is not a progressive value.  They got what they wanted by putting the casino "over there" as they said, then they still knew better than the people that lived in that area and voted it down.  Richmond also has an incredibly strong culture of NIMBYism and that showed again.  And as others noted it's not really even in their "backyard" so it's not even truly NIMBYs, call them what they really are - BANANAs. Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.  Richmonders steadfastly resist any kind of change or progress, and it's continually disappointing.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

49 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

Richmonders like to think they are very progressive but no matter what they want to project to the world with their Bernie bumper stickers, etc at the local level they are really very conservative.  Legislating morality is the domain of conservatives, not progressives, and that's exactly what they did here with this vote.  They are also deathly afraid of change or anything new which is not a progressive value.  They got what they wanted by putting the casino "over there" as they said, then they still knew better than the people that lived in that area and voted it down.  Richmond also has an incredibly strong culture of NIMBYism and that showed again.  And as others noted it's not really even in their "backyard" so it's not even truly NIMBYs, call them what they really are - BANANAs. Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.  Richmonders steadfastly resist any kind of change or progress, and it's continually disappointing.

 

Triple thumbs up - everything you said - every point, perfectly stated.  To borrow from Coupe:  -  this ^ verbatim -- because I could not have said it any better.  You just summed up what I believe has been & still is THE ONE OVERWHELMING and PRIMARY FACTOR that has so severely held Richmond back over the past 50 years of my observing the comings and goings of this city - and why RVA has not progressed one iota above where she was 50 years ago from a growth standpoint.

[mintscraft56]

Hello from Norfolk! While our casino seems to be taking forever to get started (Slow progress is like a Norfolk Tradition lol) how is the Richmond Casino progressing? 

[wrldcoupe4]

You must be joking. 

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

1 hour ago, mintscraft56 said:

Hello from Norfolk! While our casino seems to be taking forever to get started (Slow progress is like a Norfolk Tradition lol) how is the Richmond Casino progressing? 

In a nutshell:

[mintscraft56]

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

You must be joking. 

Well im honestly curious because since ours is taking its time im just interested in others till we start construction.

36 minutes ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

In a nutshell:

Im guessing yours is stalled in construction for a month or two too?

Edited November 4, 2021 by mintscraft56

[Kevin Cheph Randall]

I know it sucks now ,but Richmond will get a casino, the irony will be the casino will probably be located on the Northside of the city exactly where those residents didn't want it. Richmond is the ONLY location left in Virginia who can get a casino per State law. Unless a Indian Casino goes the federal route. 

People have to vote it's that simple, we all know older white / wealthier population will vote faithfully. It's the more impoverished/ younger/ minority voter who need to understand the importance of voting, it's sad really how many people don't vote. I'm a black guy and I know at the VERY least 35 peers my race who don't vote, couldn't careless about politics. Literally 1000's of residents who wanted the casino didn't care to vote, so yeah there's that too. 

[I miss RVA]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Cheph Randall said:

I know it sucks now ,but Richmond will get a casino, the irony will be the casino will probably be located on the Northside of the city exactly where those residents didn't want it. Richmond is the ONLY location left in Virginia who can get a casino per State law. Unless a Indian Casino goes the federal route. 

People have to vote it's that simple, we all know older white / wealthier population will vote faithfully. It's the more impoverished/ younger/ minority voter who need to understand the importance of voting, it's sad really how many people don't vote. I'm a black guy and I know at the VERY least 35 peers my race who don't vote, couldn't careless about politics. Literally 1000's of residents who wanted the casino didn't care to vote, so yeah there's that too. 

Well said!

[mintscraft56]

Hopefully you guys get a casino. I thought that indian tribe that is building ours was having one there for yall aswell?

[ancientcarpenter]

20 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

Richmonders like to think they are very progressive but no matter what they want to project to the world with their Bernie bumper stickers, etc at the local level they are really very conservative.  Legislating morality is the domain of conservatives, not progressives, and that's exactly what they did here with this vote.  They are also deathly afraid of change or anything new which is not a progressive value.  They got what they wanted by putting the casino "over there" as they said, then they still knew better than the people that lived in that area and voted it down.  Richmond also has an incredibly strong culture of NIMBYism and that showed again.  And as others noted it's not really even in their "backyard" so it's not even truly NIMBYs, call them what they really are - BANANAs. Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.  Richmonders steadfastly resist any kind of change or progress, and it's continually disappointing.

 

It's progressive to put a casino in a low income, non-college educated predominantly minority neighborhood even though they were heavily advertised by multi-million dollar campaign by the same casino that stood to benefit from that community? 

[Icetera]

55 minutes ago, ancientcarpenter said:

It's progressive to put a casino in a low income, non-college educated predominantly minority neighborhood even though they were heavily advertised by multi-million dollar campaign by the same casino that stood to benefit from that community? 

Its primarily an industrial area on the very edge of the city (barely accessible without a car to even those living near by) and Richmond residents are still going to be gambling, they will just now be taking their money out of Richmond.  Meanwhile, the surrounding counties that would have been the primary customers (reminder, Richmond city is small compared to our metro) will not be bringing new funding into the city.  Southside will see no new improvements, other than bike lanes, that they do not want and will continue to use as parking.  All vices benefit from the community, usually to some degree at its expense, whether its gambling, alcohol, marijuana, sex-work, etc.  The only difference between "progressive" and "social conservative" is which vices they pick as being immoral.

[Downtowner]

13 minutes ago, Icetera said:

Its primarily an industrial area on the very edge of the city (barely accessible without a car to even those living near by) and Richmond residents are still going to be gambling, they will just now be taking their money out of Richmond.  Meanwhile, the surrounding counties that would have been the primary customers (reminder, Richmond city is small compared to our metro) will not be bringing new funding into the city.  Southside will see no new improvements, other than bike lanes, that they do not want and will continue to use as parking.  All vices benefit from the community, usually to some degree at its expense, whether its gambling, alcohol, marijuana, sex-work, etc.  The only difference between "progressive" and "social conservative" is which vices they pick as being immoral.

I know what let’s build a giant park that should bring some more tax revenue into the city right? While we are at it let’s build a nice big stature in the middle of that park. That will definitely bring revenue. I swear people don’t seem to understand what it take to bring money into this city, I’m really close to giving up on Richmond altogether and just call it a lost cause. Only way we get better at managing money and bringing it in and having developments passed is if we get henrico and or chesterfield to gobble up Richmond city. It’s the only way I see possible now. Between the citizens and the city government I have come to the conclusion that both parties can’t agree on anything or get anything done. Also I can see these nimbys killing any type of corporate relocations like the casino or navy hill, may as well just kill it all off Richmond. Good luck to you I’ve lost all hope for you: 

[I miss RVA]

35 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

I know what let’s build a giant park that should bring some more tax revenue into the city right? While we are at it let’s build a nice big stature in the middle of that park. That will definitely bring revenue. I swear people don’t seem to understand what it take to bring money into this city, I’m really close to giving up on Richmond altogether and just call it a lost cause. Only way we get better at managing money and bringing it in and having developments passed is if we get henrico and or chesterfield to gobble up Richmond city. It’s the only way I see possible now. Between the citizens and the city government I have come to the conclusion that both parties can’t agree on anything or get anything done. Also I can see these nimbys killing any type of corporate relocations like the casino or navy hill, may as well just kill it all off Richmond. Good luck to you I’ve lost all hope for you: 

I totally hear you, brother - and I really do feel your anger, outrage, disappointment and frustration with RVA, in particular with the regressive and quite frankly backwards mindset of a wide swath of the citizenry at large and the generally unproductive plodding of the city government. For the better part of five decades, I have felt this frustration, disappointment, anger, bitterness about RVA's complete lack of forward-looking/thinking, progressive planning, aggressive boosterism/marketing to lure corporate relocations, land an airline hub, etc., and her absolute unwillingness (not inability - but flat-out unwillingness) do everything humanly possible to become the big, national, name-recognized Tier-1 city that Richmond has LONG SINCE had the potential to become.  Over the years, I have all but torn my hair out in outrage over the same old, tired, time-worn, insular, often downright a***ly-retentive and regressive mindset and tropes of "Richmond doesn't need... (fill in the blank)"  -- or -- "Richmond is unique. We don't need to be like... (fill in the blank)" -- and the accompanying NIMBYism (or as @123fakestreet aptly put it - "BANANAism")-- in response to COMMON SENSE PROPOSALS and PROJECTS that would push this city forward.  (And friends, please save your blowback asking me "how was Navy Hill "common sense"... blah blah... because I'm in agreement that there were PLENTY of big pitfalls from the financial end of how NH was to be paid for - all the more reason I hold that the city has NO BUSINESS dabbling in land development. Ditto about the casino - having/not having a casino isn't the point.)

Downtowner, I totally get where you are coming from.

All of that said - I would encourage you to not give up on RVA. She is not a lost cause. At least - my heart tells me that.

Intellectually, I can rationalize that this God-awful mindset of "reject everything, keep RVA from growing, be okay with RVA never taking off and her belng left behind by other cities (who, btw, are our competitors economically)" simply is what it is; it likely will never change (certainly not in my lifetime and maybe not in my kids' lifetimes) -- and no matter how unacceptable, disagreeable and painfully sickening I find it to be, it's simply how things are... like it or not. And intellectually, I -- like you -- have felt that I should just throw up my hands and walk away and never look back.

But I can't. 

My heart won't let me. My love for RVA makes it impossible for me to let go of the city in which I was born and raised. It won't allow me to let go of whatever glimmer of hope there might be that the city will FINALLY at some point live up to her awesome, as-yet completely untapped potential -- regardless of how foolish that hope might be. I've had that hope since I was a kid. I had it as a young adult. I still have today.  And I will carry that hope to my grave.

I can't give up on Richmond - no matter how badly she disappoints, no matter how many times she has let me down, no matter how much she has broken my heart. I will always hope that somehow -she will snap out of this slumber and really take off and be everything she can be. What's happening these days citywide is unprecedented in my lifetime. I pray it continues unabated and only increases. The growth, progress and development of the last 5 to 10 years absolutely thrills me and gives me renewed hope that -- maybe -- one day, the city I have dreamed my whole life of seeing RVA become - will finally emerge.

As I say on here so frequently - I just hope and pray I live long enough to see it.

[ancientcarpenter]

19 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

reject everything, keep RVA from growing,

Let's be clear here: 

"...reject everything, keep RVA from growing the way you want it to"

In my opinion, RVA has grown just fine without a 50 story skyscraper, without a casino, without Navy Hill, and as we see RVA continues to grow without a coliseum. I've really enjoyed living in RVA the way it is and the way it's grown for 20 some years.

 

Not everyone wants to be a "tier 1" whatever city. Not everyone wants it to be a small city. Some people (and imho MOST people) like me want RVA to grow on its own terms and that's what makes it even more unique and wanted place. Asheville, Telluride, and many other places have found themselves to be high wanted areas without trying to copy Raleigh or whatever other city everyone is drooling from mouth about this year. 

[wrldcoupe4]

3 hours ago, ancientcarpenter said:

It's progressive to put a casino in a low income, non-college educated predominantly minority neighborhood even though they were heavily advertised by multi-million dollar campaign by the same casino that stood to benefit from that community? 

No, apparently it's "progressive" to tell the people living in that area what's best for them since they must be so stupid they make their decisions solely based upon purple billboards. If only they had the wisdom of the wealthier, college educated, less minority residents from other parts of the city. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by wrldcoupe4

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, ancientcarpenter said:

Let's be clear here: 

"...reject everything, keep RVA from growing the way you want it to"

In my opinion, RVA has grown just fine without a 50 story skyscraper, without a casino, without Navy Hill, and as we see RVA continues to grow without a coliseum. I've really enjoyed living in RVA the way it is and the way it's grown for 20 some years.

 

Not everyone wants to be a "tier 1" whatever city. Not everyone wants it to be a small city. Some people (and imho MOST people) like me want RVA to grow on its own terms and that's what makes it even more unique and wanted place. Asheville, Telluride, and many other places have found themselves to be high wanted areas without trying to copy Raleigh or whatever other city everyone is drooling from mouth about this year. 

How is it RVA has grown "just fine" when -- after a 10-year growth spurt (FINALLY!!!) - we STILL have 23,000 FEWER residents in the city proper than we did in 1970? Help me understand this - because I don't care how you try to spin it, I'm not seeing it. Not when the city spent 30 years LOSING roughly 51,000 residents before something finally happened (act of God, maybe?) and things began turning around. 

And please explain how it is that you think that I -- or anyone on here -- advocate RVA becoming a "copy" of Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta or ANY other city? Especially considering  that I have made my position regarding being a copycat city abundantly clear in many places here.

Let me ask you: Were you in Richmond in the early & mid '70s when all the talk was about how RVA was poised to boom the way Atlanta did? With all the banks in town at the time, all the Fortune 500 companies, a very pro-business/forward thinking mayor at the time (Tom Bliley) - an ambitious master plan on the books - and a pro-business, pro-growth, pro-development, forward-thinking city manager (Bill Leidinger) - were you in RVA then?

Well guess what? I was. I clearly remember the energy that there was here then - and the hopes -- and the talk -- and the belief -- that RVA wouldn't merely become "the next Atlanta" - Rather, with a far superior (i.e., northeastern-style) urban infrastructure, incredible cultural institutions, museums, and things much more common to much larger cities, that she actually just might do it a LOT better.

And it never happened. For reasons outlined ad nauseam on here.

Mazal Tov!! - I'm glad you're satisfied with RVA the way it is and the way it has grown for the last 20 years (really the primary push of that growth has been in only the last 6 to 10 years - so I'm not sure saying 20 years is quite accurate here) ...

Yes - I'm very happy to see the city finally doing what it's doing. But 40-years of missed growth opportunities are 40 years we'll never get back. And for me, personally, it really stinks - because I'm not 20 or 25 ... with an entire lifetime ahead of me to see what RVA might become. I can't get those 40 years back -- when RVA was at best stagnating and at worst dying on the vine.

Oh ... and she did THAT on her own terms, too.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

How is it RVA has grown "just fine" when -- after a 10-year growth spurt (FINALLY!!!) - we STILL have 23,000 FEWER residents in the city proper than we did in 1970? Help me understand this - because I don't care how you try to spin it, I'm not seeing it. Not when the city spent 30 years LOSING roughly 51,000 residents before something finally happened (act of God, maybe?) and things began turning around. 

And please explain how it is that you think that I -- or anyone on here -- advocate RVA becoming a "copy" of Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta or ANY other city? Especially considering  that I have made my position regarding being a copycat city abundantly clear in many places here.

Let me ask you: Were you in Richmond in the early & mid '70s when all the talk was about how RVA was poised to boom the way Atlanta did? With all the banks in town at the time, all the Fortune 500 companies, a very pro-business/forward thinking mayor at the time (Tom Bliley) - an ambitious master plan on the books - and a pro-business, pro-growth, pro-development, forward-thinking city manager (Bill Leidinger) - were you in RVA then?

Well guess what? I was. I clearly remember the energy that there was here then - and the hopes -- and the talk -- and the belief -- that RVA wouldn't merely become "the next Atlanta" - Rather, with a far superior (i.e., northeastern-style) urban infrastructure, incredible cultural institutions, museums, and things much more common to much larger cities, that she actually just might do it a LOT better.

And it never happened. For reasons outlined ad nauseam on here.

Mazal Tov!! - I'm glad you're satisfied with RVA the way it is and the way it has grown for the last 20 years (really the primary push of that growth has been in only the last 6 to 10 years - so I'm not sure saying 20 years is quite accurate here) ...

Yes - I'm very happy to see the city finally doing what it's doing. But 40-years of missed growth opportunities are 40 years we'll never get back. And for me, personally, it really stinks - because I'm not 20 or 25 ... with an entire lifetime ahead of me to see what RVA might become. I can't get those 40 years back -- when RVA was at best stagnating and at worst dying on the vine.

Oh ... and she did THAT on her own terms, too.

 

While I’m only 33 I’ve heard all about how it was supposed to grow like Atlanta. My wife’s grandfather was a high up executive for Piedmont air in Winston Salem back then and came to Richmond as part of the proposed airline hub. Wish I had the opportunity to meet my wife’s grandfather would of been great and sad to hear how it all went down and the thinking of why they offered it to us. If we had accepted the hub for Piedmont airlines which is now part of American Airlines we would be what Atlanta or even Charlotte is today. Unfortunately we have to many leaders who like to think small and shoot anything down. Richmond has shot itself in the foot time after time again. I’m wondering when we stop shooting our selves in the foot. Like you I’m going to be much older one day and we will still be screwing around getting absolutely squat done. I’m 33 at the moment when I’m 66 it probably won’t be much different now sadly the way things go around here. Best of luck Richmond keep on messing around and enjoy being a turtle instead of a rabbit. 

[eandslee]

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

How is it RVA has grown "just fine" when -- after a 10-year growth spurt (FINALLY!!!) - we STILL have 23,000 FEWER residents in the city proper than we did in 1970? Help me understand this - because I don't care how you try to spin it, I'm not seeing it. Not when the city spent 30 years LOSING roughly 51,000 residents before something finally happened (act of God, maybe?) and things began turning around. 

And please explain how it is that you think that I -- or anyone on here -- advocate RVA becoming a "copy" of Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta or ANY other city? Especially considering  that I have made my position regarding being a copycat city abundantly clear in many places here.

Let me ask you: Were you in Richmond in the early & mid '70s when all the talk was about how RVA was poised to boom the way Atlanta did? With all the banks in town at the time, all the Fortune 500 companies, a very pro-business/forward thinking mayor at the time (Tom Bliley) - an ambitious master plan on the books - and a pro-business, pro-growth, pro-development, forward-thinking city manager (Bill Leidinger) - were you in RVA then?

Well guess what? I was. I clearly remember the energy that there was here then - and the hopes -- and the talk -- and the belief -- that RVA wouldn't merely become "the next Atlanta" - Rather, with a far superior (i.e., northeastern-style) urban infrastructure, incredible cultural institutions, museums, and things much more common to much larger cities, that she actually just might do it a LOT better.

And it never happened. For reasons outlined ad nauseam on here.

Mazal Tov!! - I'm glad you're satisfied with RVA the way it is and the way it has grown for the last 20 years (really the primary push of that growth has been in only the last 6 to 10 years - so I'm not sure saying 20 years is quite accurate here) ...

Yes - I'm very happy to see the city finally doing what it's doing. But 40-years of missed growth opportunities are 40 years we'll never get back. And for me, personally, it really stinks - because I'm not 20 or 25 ... with an entire lifetime ahead of me to see what RVA might become. I can't get those 40 years back -- when RVA was at best stagnating and at worst dying on the vine.

Oh ... and she did THAT on her own terms, too.

 

Amen brother!  I think there are actually more people who want Richmond to be a Tier 1 city than is thought.  It wants to be Tier 1 so bad, but there are are a few people in this town (with enough power) who are really impeding it’s growth.  Never do we want to copy Raleigh or Charlotte - we just want Richmond to grow  in it own unique way, but faster than it is!  It’s got 40 years of anti growth to make up!

[I miss RVA]

21 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

While I’m only 33 I’ve heard all about how it was supposed to grow like Atlanta. My wife’s grandfather was a high up executive for Piedmont air in Winston Salem back then and came to Richmond as part of the proposed airline hub. Wish I had the opportunity to meet my wife’s grandfather would of been great and sad to hear how it all went down and the thinking of why they offered it to us. If we had accepted the hub for Piedmont airlines which is now part of American Airlines we would be what Atlanta or even Charlotte is today. Unfortunately we have to many leaders who like to think small and shoot anything down. Richmond has shot itself in the foot time after time again. I’m wondering when we stop shooting our selves in the foot. Like you I’m going to be much older one day and we will still be screwing around getting absolutely squat done. I’m 33 at the moment when I’m 66 it probably won’t be much different now sadly the way things go around here. Best of luck Richmond keep on messing around and enjoy being a turtle instead of a rabbit. 

Downtowner - thank you for sharing your family's connection to this - because it jogged some memories from that time for me as well. My aunt/uncle (my mother's sister) and their family were close friends of the Bliley family and knew Tom Bliley personally. My oldest cousin (14 years older than me) was already married and had his masters degree and was working for the Commonwealth of Virginia by the early to mid-70s - and he knew both the mayor and Bill Leidinger personally and met & talked with them quite frequently. In those days, for whatever reason, we (my family and my aunt/uncle's family) always took at least one (sometimes two) tandem family vacations to Raleigh and just hung out together (always Labor day - sometimes July 4th) - and I recall how excited I was to be able to spend extended time with my uncle and cousin because they had all the dirt on what Bliley and Leidinger wanted to do regarding pushing RVA forward.  They didn't mind my pestering them with questions - because all of this resonated SO strongly for me - it (for RVA to boom and do what Atlanta did) was something that I wanted more than I can tell you, even at a such a  young age.

The one thing I recall vividly was that they said both the mayor and city manager constantly talked about how RVA was going to "do what Atlanta did" - how "we're going to boom like Atlanta" - and that they had a huge chunk of the business community behind them & in full support -- because they (the business leaders) like Bliley and Leidinger KNEW what a booming RVA meant economically - it meant EVERYONE would be making money - and lots of it.

Post-annexation moratorium/court rulings and DOJ involvement:  the politics around all of that derailed the speeding train that was to be RVA's boom, and unfortunately by 1977 all of those great plans were getting shelved because the entire political dynamic in RVA had radically changed. The rest - sadly - was history. RVA's rocket launch to the stars never even made it off the launch pad.

Wow - I can only imagine what your wife's grandfather HAD to be thinking when RVA said "thanks, but no thanks" to Piedmont establishing their hub here. All because the powers that be (and that includes Henrico and Chesterfield) simply didn't want to spend the money for parallel runways and other expansion that the airport would have required -- an investment that in the 40-plus years since would have paid for itself multi-millions of times over. Can you imagine -- even with the political trainwreck that happened here in the mid-late 70s over annexation -- how RVA might STILL have boomed with what could have become exactly what it became in Charlotte - one of the premiere airline hubs in the country?

What angers me the most about it - and I STILL remember how sick to my stomach I felt even all the way back then when the news came out that Piedmont was not coming here - they were going to Charlotte - because we didn't want the hub - I still remember the gut punch I felt ...  what got me then and what gets me now - is that all of the growth, development, economic benefit, etc., that RVA could have had - and that ultimately ended up going to Charlotte - WE GAVE IT AWAY!!! It was in the very palms of our hands ... and we gave it away. I mean ... could you possibly imagine the Chicago Bulls having the opportunity to get Michael Jordan... but giving that chance away because they didn't want to spend the money - and another team like, say, the Celtics getting him?

Neither can I.

Wow - Downtowner, so cool that you have a personal connection to this. Again, thank you for sharing that story!

[Downtowner]

5 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Downtowner - thank you for sharing your family's connection to this - because it jogged some memories from that time for me as well. My aunt/uncle (my mother's sister) and their family were close friends of the Bliley family and knew Tom Bliley personally. My oldest cousin (14 years older than me) was already married and had his masters degree and was working for the Commonwealth of Virginia by the early to mid-70s - and he knew both the mayor and Bill Leidinger personally and met & talked with them quite frequently. In those days, for whatever reason, we (my family and my aunt/uncle's family) always took at least one (sometimes two) tandem family vacations to Raleigh and just hung out together (always Labor day - sometimes July 4th) - and I recall how excited I was to be able to spend extended time with my uncle and cousin because they had all the dirt on what Bliley and Leidinger wanted to do regarding pushing RVA forward.  They didn't mind my pestering them with questions - because all of this resonated SO strongly for me - it (for RVA to boom and do what Atlanta did) was something that I wanted more than I can tell you, even at a such a  young age.

The one thing I recall vividly was that they said both the mayor and city manager constantly talked about how RVA was going to "do what Atlanta did" - how "we're going to boom like Atlanta" - and that they had a huge chunk of the business community behind them & in full support -- because they (the business leaders) like Bliley and Leidinger KNEW what a booming RVA meant economically - it meant EVERYONE would be making money - and lots of it.

Post-annexation moratorium/court rulings and DOJ involvement:  the politics around all of that derailed the speeding train that was to be RVA's boom, and unfortunately by 1977 all of those great plans were getting shelved because the entire political dynamic in RVA had radically changed. The rest - sadly - was history. RVA's rocket launch to the stars never even made it off the launch pad.

Wow - I can only imagine what your wife's grandfather HAD to be thinking when RVA said "thanks, but no thanks" to Piedmont establishing their hub here. All because the powers that be (and that includes Henrico and Chesterfield) simply didn't want to spend the money for parallel runways and other expansion that the airport would have required -- an investment that in the 40-plus years since would have paid for itself multi-millions of times over. Can you imagine -- even with the political trainwreck that happened here in the mid-late 70s over annexation -- how RVA might STILL have boomed with what could have become exactly what it became in Charlotte - one of the premiere airline hubs in the country?

What angers me the most about it - and I STILL remember how sick to my stomach I felt even all the way back then when the news came out that Piedmont was not coming here - they were going to Charlotte - because we didn't want the hub - I still remember the gut punch I felt ...  what got me then and what gets me now - is that all of the growth, development, economic benefit, etc., that RVA could have had - and that ultimately ended up going to Charlotte - WE GAVE IT AWAY!!! It was in the very palms of our hands ... and we gave it away. I mean ... could you possibly imagine the Chicago Bulls having the opportunity to get Michael Jordan... but giving that chance away because they didn't want to spend the money - and another team like, say, the Celtics getting him?

Neither can I.

Wow - Downtowner, so cool that you have a personal connection to this. Again, thank you for sharing that story!

Thanks there are old model airplanes in my in laws house that my wife’s grandfather once had. Very cool to always look at. Maybe one of these days I will find some stuff on it when cleaning out in-laws or family members on her side of the families house. You just never know. Would be cool to find something on the whole story behind it in my wife’s childhood home which is up in Winchester. My wife’s grandfather lived in Winston Salem which is where my wife’s father lived his whole life while his dad (my wife’s grandfather) worked for Piedmont but died in the early 2010s before I met my wife. My father in law worked as a chemist for rj Reynolds tobaccco and moved to Winchester he married my mother in law which is where my mother in laws family is from and which is where my wife and I will be moving to in 2025. I will miss Richmond it’s the only town I’ve ever known and lived in my entire life but the stagnant development and so much disappointment lately and with so many friends and family moving elsewhere for work I’ve gotten to the point where it’s time to venture elsewhere and I fell in love with Winchester when my wife took me up there for my very first time it’s a combo of everything you need in a town as well as country living which my wife’s family owns a huge 1800 acre apple fruits and vegetables farm and farmers market. So to be part of that is really awesome and I have nova only an hour away maybe a little bit more but love the fact I can hopefully soon hop on the silver line on the metro in ashburn when the silver line expansion is done  and go see a football baseball or hockey game in dc. But I’ve started to lose hope and faith in the city that I have grown to love and care so much about because literally everything always gets shot down and I don’t see that changing any time soon sadly.

[I miss RVA]

12 hours ago, Downtowner said:

Thanks there are old model airplanes in my in laws house that my wife’s grandfather once had. Very cool to always look at. Maybe one of these days I will find some stuff on it when cleaning out in-laws or family members on her side of the families house. You just never know. Would be cool to find something on the whole story behind it in my wife’s childhood home which is up in Winchester. My wife’s grandfather lived in Winston Salem which is where my wife’s father lived his whole life while his dad (my wife’s grandfather) worked for Piedmont but died in the early 2010s before I met my wife. My father in law worked as a chemist for rj Reynolds tobaccco and moved to Winchester he married my mother in law which is where my mother in laws family is from and which is where my wife and I will be moving to in 2025. I will miss Richmond it’s the only town I’ve ever known and lived in my entire life but the stagnant development and so much disappointment lately and with so many friends and family moving elsewhere for work I’ve gotten to the point where it’s time to venture elsewhere and I fell in love with Winchester when my wife took me up there for my very first time it’s a combo of everything you need in a town as well as country living which my wife’s family owns a huge 1800 acre apple fruits and vegetables farm and farmers market. So to be part of that is really awesome and I have nova only an hour away maybe a little bit more but love the fact I can hopefully soon hop on the silver line on the metro in ashburn when the silver line expansion is done  and go see a football baseball or hockey game in dc. But I’ve started to lose hope and faith in the city that I have grown to love and care so much about because literally everything always gets shot down and I don’t see that changing any time soon sadly.

Winchester is a beautiful part of the state. I'd love to have a place around there,tbh - because you've got mountains on either side of you - so you get all four seasons - and you're just a hop, skip and a jump not only from DC, professional sports, etc., but as the crow flies, not all that far from Pittsburgh if you wanted a change of pace both culturally and sportswise. When I was moving to the Midwest 20 years ago, I always made it a point to drive through Winchester - not only was it the most efficient route to take - it was the most beautiful. I've always loved the mountains - and the Shenandoah Valley - and it's a part of Virginia I cherished as a kid - and still cherish today.

Sounds like your wife's fam has quite a beautiful place there - wow - that's a heck of a spread - 1,800 acres of apple orchards and a veggie farm. I could certainly go for something like that. May you and your wife find much happiness and good living there, my friend! It definitely sounds like an exciting move forthcoming (even if it is still a few years away). 

[Downtowner]

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Winchester is a beautiful part of the state. I'd love to have a place around there,tbh - because you've got mountains on either side of you - so you get all four seasons - and you're just a hop, skip and a jump not only from DC, professional sports, etc., but as the crow flies, not all that far from Pittsburgh if you wanted a change of pace both culturally and sportswise. When I was moving to the Midwest 20 years ago, I always made it a point to drive through Winchester - not only was it the most efficient route to take - it was the most beautiful. I've always loved the mountains - and the Shenandoah Valley - and it's a part of Virginia I cherished as a kid - and still cherish today.

Sounds like your wife's fam has quite a beautiful place there - wow - that's a heck of a spread - 1,800 acres of apple orchards and a veggie farm. I could certainly go for something like that. May you and your wife find much happiness and good living there, my friend! It definitely sounds like an exciting move forthcoming (even if it is still a few years away). 

Yeah we will see for how long though. People from the dc area are moving in all over Winchester now. So many new neighborhoods popping up and so many roads being upgraded at the moment. Lots of change going on up there. 

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, Downtowner said:

Yeah we will see for how long though. People from the dc area are moving in all over Winchester now. So many new neighborhoods popping up and so many roads being upgraded at the moment. Lots of change going on up there. 

Yeah - suburban sprawl never ends. Even in RVA metro - just ask the folks in eastern Goochland.

You'd think somehow that the mountains on the eastern side of the valley might serve as a natural break.

[DalWill]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:01 PM, ancientcarpenter said:

Let's be clear here: 

"...reject everything, keep RVA from growing the way you want it to"

In my opinion, RVA has grown just fine without a 50 story skyscraper, without a casino, without Navy Hill, and as we see RVA continues to grow without a coliseum. I've really enjoyed living in RVA the way it is and the way it's grown for 20 some years.

 

Not everyone wants to be a "tier 1" whatever city. Not everyone wants it to be a small city. Some people (and imho MOST people) like me want RVA to grow on its own terms and that's what makes it even more unique and wanted place. Asheville, Telluride, and many other places have found themselves to be high wanted areas without trying to copy Raleigh or whatever other city everyone is drooling from mouth about this year. 

Your point fell short. None of us can predict Richmond, Va’s  “own” time. However, Richmond can’t afford to have reputation of dismissing projects because there is an economic base that’s in need of expanding as more people flock here. Richmond CANNOT afford to turn away investors as more continue to live here.  In no way shape or form is that sustainable.  Those “organic Growth” talking points is a waste of an discussion and frankly, those people need to study city development and civics before type something silly about what they probably don’t know.

Im sorry to say this, but City Council needs to hold their respective districts accountable just as much as they hold their councilors to the fire. They rejected a development that could add to the economic makeup of this damn town based off a pre-conceived notion of the “poor” and “downtrodden”, when most don’t even know how those areas became the way it did  (legislations , suburban flight, redlining, etc) and most don’t even know people from these places or take the time to learn of what they want. Entrepreneurship deals were on the tables, jobs that could’ve been created, profit sharing models, the whole plan was here for them to LIFT THEM up out of poverty and contribute to the expansion of the economic base of this  city.  Navy Hill was one thing (Council burned me how they handled that) but this is downright unacceptable. 
 

I’m sick of the affluent  telling the rest of the city what can or can’t have and how we as a whole ahold fall in line while they reap the benefits of their own burgeoning neighborhoods. I’m fed up. Screw them .  

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, DalWill said:

Your point fell short. None of us can predict Richmond, Va’s  “own” time. However, Richmond can’t afford to have reputation of dismissing projects because there is an economic base that’s in need of expanding as more people flock here. Richmond CANNOT afford to turn away investors as more continue to live here.  In no way shape or form is that sustainable.  Those “organic Growth” talking points is a waste of an discussion and frankly, those people need to study city development and civics before type something silly about what they probably don’t know.

Im sorry to say this, but City Council needs to hold their respective districts accountable just as much as they hold their councilors to the fire. They rejected a development that could add to the economic makeup of this damn town based off a pre-conceived notion of the “poor” and “downtrodden”, when most don’t even know how those areas became the way it did  (legislations , suburban flight, redlining, etc) and most don’t even know people from these places or take the time to learn of what they want. Entrepreneurship deals were on the tables, jobs that could’ve been created, profit sharing models, the whole plan was here for them to LIFT THEM up out of poverty and contribute to the expansion of the economic base of this  city.  Navy Hill was one thing (Council burned me how they handled that) but this is downright unacceptable. 
 

I’m sick of the affluent  telling the rest of the city what can or can’t have and how we as a whole ahold fall in line while they reap the benefits of their own burgeoning neighborhoods. I’m fed up. Screw them .  

1.) Spot on, DalWill. Getting THAT kind of a reputation - of dismissing projects - is exactly the opposite of what RVA should be doing (and what other cities have embraced). We should be actively and aggressively recruiting businesses to relocate here, developers to invest here, and actively pursue every possible opportunity that the city can reasonably obtain. Does there need to be some form of VERY LIMITED gatekeeping? To an extent, yes - but that's what the Richmond 300 plan is for. The city's master plan should always be the development guide. Gatekeeping is not meant to keep "certain businesses" away or to pick and choose between those we "like" and those we "don't like". Rather, it should be employed only to guide and direct growth and facilitate the city's economic expansion. Well thought-out zoning regs should be sufficient for keeping a toxic waste dump from being built in the middle of Windsor Farms (an uber-exaggeration, but you get my point).

2.) While there certainly is a time and a place for organic growth - and it should always be encouraged at the community level, the city IN NO WAY should hook its entire wagon to this concept of economic development - or to even emphasize it above the community level. That's like trying to win a baseball game when you either instruct every batter to try to lay down a bunt - or - to never take the bat off the shoulder, hoping for a base on balls. There comes a time when the city MUST swing for the fences. Just like aggressive recruitment of businesses and developers and aggressive marketing of RVA as "THE PLACE" to do business and "THE PLACE" to be - the city MUST get those heavy hitters to come here and set up shop. Every other city in this country has done that and continues to do that. To rely or even over-emphasize organic growth is economic suicide. These concepts were 101 in my urban planning courses in undergrad.

3.) "legislations, suburban flight, redlining, etc..."  THANK YOU! Spot on.