Richmond Resort & Casino

[eandslee]

41 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I am trying to collect all the details for comparison.  Here is what I have so far:

This is great!  I like how it's laid out for comparison.  I'm trying to get as educated as possible on all the proposals so that I know everything there is to know about the project.  Most people won't do that and will vote based on the "book's cover" or based on whether or not they are pro casino.  That's really frustrating. 

Personally, I'm not a casino guy (although I have gone and capped myself at a certain amount just to have some fun...and it is fun when you walk into it knowing you're not going to get rich or make any money (if you do, that's a bonus, but it's NEVER expected) - it's strictly for entertainment...it's like going out for a movie or paying for some other night time entertainment).  I particularly like all the entertainment possibilities: live shows, the restaurants, etc. all in a glitzy atmosphere...that's what I'd go to a casino for.  I've been seeing so many people on social media talk about how this would ruin poor people's lives because they would spend all their money at a casino.  Well, that argument doesn't hold water for me because you can say the same thing about breweries - alcoholics can go there and get drunk everyday and spend every dime they have on that too, but I don't see many people objecting to a brewery in the their neighborhood.  Plus, these resorts are so much more than just a casino.  These are destinations and good ones, if done right (that's the key).  I don't want to see something that in 10 years will be run down and I want to see something tall and glitzy that will be seen from the Interstate (a draw for passersby and something that will be a tourist draw when people go to Richmond for a visit).  Some shows offered may even draw people from DC or where ever depending on the show!  I see this as something good!  Bring on the tourist $$$!

Edited February 23, 2021 by eandslee

[Icetera]

44 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Personally, I'm not a casino guy (although I have gone and capped myself at a certain amount just to have some fun...and it is fun when you walk into it knowing you're not going to get rich or make any money (if you do, that's a bonus, but it's NEVER expected) - it's strictly for entertainment...it's like going out for a movie or paying for some other night time entertainment).  I particularly like all the entertainment possibilities: live shows, the restaurants, etc. all in a glitzy atmosphere...that's what I'd go to a casino for.

Plus, these resorts are so much more than just a casino.  These are destinations and good ones, if done right (that's the key).  I don't want to see something that in 10 years will be run down and I want to see something tall and glitzy that will be seen from the Interstate (a draw for passersby and something that will be a tourist draw when people go to Richmond for a visit.

This is exactly how I look at it.  My first couple trips to Vegas I did not gamble at all, I just wandered around checking out the architecture and environments and enjoyed the many other entertainment options provided.  The times that I have gambled I have done the same: set an "entertainment" budget and do not expect to win.  Casinos that are done right can be great multi-functional destinations.
 

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Question for the group. Scott's Addition is evolving. It's not really just an entertainment district. It has hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space and thousands of residential units. Do people in other markets find it attractive to work or live adjacent to a casino project? Will a casino project make Scott's Addition less desirable or more desirable? My only real casino exposure is MGM National Harbor which really sits to itself and isn't super walkable to National Harbor.

While Scott's Addition varies wildly, this particular location is very much in an entertainment district between Bow Tie,  River City Roll, the Science Museum, and the Redskins field.   The immediate vicinity is not likely to be residential between these sites and the rail line.  Looking at other similar projects around the country, there seems to be a similar spacing between them and major residential projects as we would see now.  I would expect a similar spacing with the new Diamond as well.

Personally, I love the idea of having a central location for activities allowing for taking in of multiple experiences in a day rather than being isolated.  On the other hand, Scott's Addition is not a  location that needs a catalyst as it is already hot.  While I like the visibility from 95 by the Pamunkey resort, it is not located in a location that is able to generate much additional economic development.  The Urban One resort lacks the visibility while having the same problem.  For spurring growth, I actually think Bally's has the best potential.  Regardless, I am hoping that the Pamunkey has some updates that are not released yet as I believe they represent the best connection to Richmond and would create the best cultural experience, which would be lacking by the other developers.  The Foxwood's and Mohegan Sun complexes in Connecticut add a lot as destination, not just for gambling and entertainment, but also as showcases to their tribes.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Question for the group. Scott's Addition is evolving. It's not really just an entertainment district. It has hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space and thousands of residential units. Do people in other markets find it attractive to work or live adjacent to a casino project? Will a casino project make Scott's Addition less desirable or more desirable? My only real casino exposure is MGM National Harbor which really sits to itself and isn't super walkable to National Harbor.

National Harbor is a really interesting place. My ex-wife had one of her Ph.D. residencies there in 2019 - and we made a family vacation out of it (since the kids were off school for spring break). Not sure how the resort & town might be impacted if the MGM National Harbor were closer - that's a very valid point of consideration. It makes me think that the Pamunkey Tribe's location on Commerce Road is still the ideal location - close enough to draw plenty of business - but just out of the way enough that it's not right smack in the middle of booming Manchester. Perhaps Cordish's project would be the same, separated from Scott's Addition proper by the rail yard.

[I miss RVA]

From yesterday's RTD article: a couple of renderings of the proposed projects:

Ballys and the Pamunkey proposals.

 

[I miss RVA]

Interestingly, while we here are analyzing the benefits of each proposal and weighing in one which one we prefer be built, the NIMBYs are out in droves on the RVA Reddit page.   Between the traditional virtue signaling as "protectors of the poor gambling addicts" to the "quality of life" NIMBYs - it's just mind boggling how much negativity there is over there about the prospect of having a casino. Typical old-school Richmond mentality. "Let the tax revenue and economic development go to Norfolk. We don't want it here." I can't shake my head or roll my eyes hard enough.

[Icetera]

Here is the Architecture firm for Pamunkey.  I see they were involved with Foxwoods so that is a good sign and they certainly have experience.  Note that the Pamunkey rendering only shows the hotel portion, hence why I suspect a lot of information is still not out there.

https://www.jcj.com/projects/gaming/

[whw53]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Interestingly, while we here are analyzing the benefits of each proposal and weighing in one which one we prefer be built, the NIMBYs are out in droves on the RVA Reddit page.   Between the traditional virtue signaling as "protectors of the poor gambling addicts" to the "quality of life" NIMBYs - it's just mind boggling how much negativity there is over there about the prospect of having a casino. Typical old-school Richmond mentality. "Let the tax revenue and economic development go to Norfolk. We don't want it here." I can't shake my head or roll my eyes hard enough.

I'm struck that the groundswell of support for liberalizing marijuana doesn't seem to transfer to casino\gambling liberalization. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the value set of most of those who push for the former. 

[Icetera]

Thankfully, Reddit is not a great dataset for support.  Here is Norfolk's Reddit results yet Norfolk passed at 65% (the lowest*).  Similar trends exist in the other city Reddit forums.


Casino referendum results by locale:
Bristol: 71%
Danville: 69%
Portsmouth: 67%
Norfolk: 65%

[eandslee]

6 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Question for the group. Scott's Addition is evolving. It's not really just an entertainment district. It has hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space and thousands of residential units. Do people in other markets find it attractive to work or live adjacent to a casino project? Will a casino project make Scott's Addition less desirable or more desirable? My only real casino exposure is MGM National Harbor which really sits to itself and isn't super walkable to National Harbor.

Just thought I'd provide my very humble opinion:

I'm not sure that a casino will detract people from living in SA.  I do think that a casino will help make SA a destination location for entertainment for sure (with the new Diamond nearby, River City Roll, the movie theater, breweries, and whatever else I'm forgetting).  I'd bet that many people would be attracted to living so close to entertainment and work (assuming they worked in one of the office spaces in SA).  I also think that proximity to the Pulse is also a "plus."  The casino would be easy to get to if people are located along the Pulse line (hopefully, it is extended soon) - if the casino is built there, I'd bet there'd also be special shuttles that would run from various parts of the city to the casino and back.  With all that said, I think SA would be a great place to live with everything happening right there (to include the casino).  For those who like urban environments, what else could one want?  Those are just my thoughts.  

I do, however, like the Bally's location at Chippenham and the Powhite...with one down side - the tolls on the Powhite.  I think that is somewhat of a detractor.  If that whole intersection could be a casino resort location for multiple casino resorts, it would create quite the destination.  I just don't see anymore than just the one casino though.

[I miss RVA]

So how would all of this add up if somehow the Pamunkey project isn't selected and one of the other three are? If state law allows ONE casino to be built in the designated locality - but federal regulations would allow the Pamunkey to build - how would this get settled if the Pamunkey decided to push forward with the project even if one of the other proposals was selected? Would there be an exception granted in Richmond's case since the Pamunkey could build according to federally guarante4ed rights?  How would that work?

Just tossing this question out there because it's an issue that COULD in theory pop up.

[wrldcoupe4]

In theory there could be 2. Federal path takes longer. 

[eandslee]

Well, we knew there were at least 4 proposals for casinos in Richmond, but the RTD is reporting that there are at least 2 more proposals that were submitted on Monday for a total of 6 proposals! 

The latest one that has gone, somewhat, public is from Golden Nugget (a Houston-based developer).  Out of all the other proposals that have gone public with their announcement, this one is underwhelming by comparison.  Golden Nugget is touting ties with the African American community as well, but their plan includes a 177-room hotel, 93K sq ft of gaming space that includes 1,900 slot machines, 92 table games (to include 8 poker tables), a 1,500-seat entertainment venue, and a 16K sq ft events center (a total of about 950K sq ft for the whole resort).  The site for this casino is unknown, but we do know that it is 6 miles from downtown and 20 miles from Richmond International Airport (vague).  This proposal promises to donate $70M to the Richmond Public Schools and other community initiatives (ha ha - anything to throw sugar on this proposal).  There was no renderings attached to this article.

On Wednesday (next week? or today?), there should be another announcement of the 6th proposal.  We should find out the details about it then.

(no link because I don't have enough free logins on the RTD website to capture the web address.  Just go to the RTD website.  If someone has the bandwidth to post the link, please do.  Thanks!)

[Icetera]

27 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Well, we knew there were at least 4 proposals for casinos in Richmond, but the RTD is reporting that there are at least 2 more proposals that were submitted on Monday for a total of 6 proposals! 

The latest one that has gone, somewhat, public is from Golden Nugget (a Houston-based developer).  Out of all the other proposals that have gone public with their announcement, this one is underwhelming by comparison.  Golden Nugget is touting ties with the African American community as well, but their plan includes a 177-room hotel, 93K sq ft of gaming space that includes 1,900 slot machines, 92 table games (to include 8 poker tables), a 1,500-seat entertainment venue, and a 16K sq ft events center (a total of about 950K sq ft for the whole resort).  The site for this casino is unknown, but we do know that it is 6 miles from downtown and 20 miles from Richmond International Airport (vague).  This proposal promises to donate $70M to the Richmond Public Schools and other community initiatives (ha ha - anything to throw sugar on this proposal).  There was no renderings attached to this article.

On Wednesday (next week? or today?), there should be another announcement of the 6th proposal.  We should find out the details about it then.

(no link because I don't have enough free logins on the RTD website to capture the web address.  Just go to the RTD website.  If someone has the bandwidth to post the link, please do.  Thanks!)

https://richmond.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/golden-nugget-jumps-into-richmond-casino-sweepstakes-with-another-developer-in-the-wings/article_e2ba6bd2-3970-5666-acf6-edddc15469d6.html

The distances match the Bally's location at Stratford Hills (6.4 miles DT, 19.1 miles RIC) so they may be eyeing the same property or something by Stoney Point.  At least we get Morton's Steakhouse back with this one (both entities under Landry's).

[Icetera]

Here is the orientation of the Bally's project.  The Road in the foreground appears to run parallel to the rail line and cross over swamp.  This likely links to Gravel Hill Rd.

[I miss RVA]

10 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

In theory there could be 2. Federal path takes longer. 

If that came to pass, would the federal regs outweigh the current state law limiting RVA to only one casino? Am curious if this would end up in the courts.

[eandslee]

Wind Creek Hospitality submits the sixth proposal.  Here are the details:

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/02/24/wind-creek-hospitality-submits-proposal-casino-richmond/

[Icetera]

The final proposal by Wind Creek Hospitality at the originally proposed location for Pamunkey:

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/golden-nugget-enters-proposal-to-build-richmond-casino/

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/02/24/wind-creek-hospitality-submits-proposal-casino-richmond/





Wind Creek

Updated image for Golden Nugget

[eandslee]

Wow!  I'm digging that Wind Creek rendering!

[skinsfan]

23 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Wow!  I'm digging that Wind Creek rendering!

Me too!

[Brent114]

Wind Creek does look good.  3 out of the 4 look good.  We’ll end up with Golden Nugget though:( 

[RVAnouveau]

I love the Wind Creek render, but I think it's important to point out that Wind Creek is a segment of the Creek Nation. Not that it matters, but it might be a slap in the face for Richmond City Council to approve theirs over the homegrown Pamunkey. If there's any development that's political, it's a casino, so...

[eandslee]

2 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

Wind Creek does look good.  3 out of the 4 look good.  We’ll end up with Golden Nugget though:( 

A quick run-down of my thoughts on locations and offerings:

I haven't seen Cordish's renderings yet, but I think they have one of the best locations. 

Wind Creek doesn't have a bad location, but I'd say that it is best location next to Cordish's location in SA (love the 2-tower design, just not sure how attractive the overall proposal is). 

I'm not too sure about the two locations next to Phillip Morris - I just don't see those areas as a good location...with views of the cigarette plant (yuck!) and the Port of Richmond across I-95 (you're not going to see much of the downtown skyline from there).  However, of the two proposals near Phillip Morris, I like the Pamunky Indian location best (mostly because it is closer to I-95 and would be very visible) and I like the tall, sleek tower as part of its design. 

The ONE proposal is nice, but I'm not digging the renderings - it's short and squatty.  The location isn't great either, but I like some of the programs they are offering that promote Richmond. 

I do like the Bally's proposal, but would prefer it be closer to downtown.  The other downside to Bally's is the toll road right there and it's not off of an Interstate where people from out of state would visit.  Other than that, I don't mind the location too much.  Seems to be more family friendly as well.

The Golden Nugget location may be around Stony Point (that's my guess).  Not a good location and based on the renderings...one of my least favorite designs and probably my least favorite proposal.

[whw53]

For me , a proposal that integrates into the urban grid and gives us a prominent design is most important. I was pulling for Cordish site at Movieland simply based on location along AA w/o seeing rendering but really like the Windy Creek site and rendering at the southern end of Machester's grid, could hurry urban development there. All other factors aside, the other proposals all seem to be suburban campus developments - doesn't really push the urban needle ...but that Windy Creek seems like a real chance to raise the density bar in that area and spur growth in an urban format.

Torn because I want to see Cordish but I dont think we neeeed Cordish to make the Blvd great one day altho that makes most sense based on Richmond 300 goals.. but Windy Creek could really jumpstart a whole new urban node..

Sent from my SM-A600A using Tapatalk

[Downtowner]

Of all the proposals I think my top three would be in no particular order

wind creek Bally’s and the cordish proposal. I would like to see the pamunkey proposal happen to and let them go the federal route so that way Richmond will have two casinos. I’d prefer wind creek and the pamunkey would add a lot of good height south of the river. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Downtowner

[Downtowner]

So If anyone had to guess how tall do you think the wind creek casino  towers are in height and floor count? Anyone think it’s taller than the pamunkey casino tower?