Richmond Resort & Casino

[Downtowner]

Lord I hope we don’t get screwed and get the urban one proposal. Lord that would be extremely disappointing. I really hope it’s the cordish one. Bally’s id be okay with but I really want cordish at this point. I really hope the pamunkey tribe goes the federal route now. 

[rjp212]

Ballys and Cordish were the only two that I was remotely excited for.  The others just seemed to miss the mark.

[eandslee]

I'm all in for the Cordish Live! Casino.  Ballys would be my second choice.  Hate Urban One's design (it's just terrible) and location (also terrible...right next door to a cigarette factory...yuck!).  Ballys has a cool design, but the location is not that great.  Cordish's plan is just right - SA location is great and the design is super awesome too!

[RVAnouveau]

Cordish seems like the best option now and Bally's is my second favorite. But I did want to post this video for the UrbanOne casino, since before seeing it, I was totally turned off.  The video provides a better overview of what it might look like along with what looks like a modest hotel tower element at the edge.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by RVAnouveau

[Hike]

If I ever go to one,  it'll have to be the Cordish location, can't remember the last time I was near Chippenham and Powhite, it's been so long,  I almost had to look at a map. The location near phillip Morris, to out of towners, they may not know,  to locals, nope. Would the SA location worry,  conflict VCU and their plans? A casino next to, close to a university athletic village? 

Read some of the comments here,  there's one comment by "I Enjoy Beer" that describes the Chippenham and Powhite location that's spot on and funny as he'll.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hike

[eandslee]

More news on the casino development. Looks like Council Member Jordan who represents SA is a hard no against the Cordish plan. 
 

Also looks like there are a few virtual meetings next week if you’d like to join and learn more (see more info in link below):

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/03/24/casino-resort-proposals-move-onto-next-phase-selection-process-richmond/

[Hike]

6 minutes ago, eandslee said:

More news on the casino development. Looks like Council Member Jordan who represents SA is a hard no against the Cordish plan.

Of course, cause that's how we roll. 

[eandslee]

Nice Urban One video...here’s Bally’s video:

 

And here is Cordish’s video:

Richmondlive.com

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by eandslee

[Brent114]

I don’t like any of them (pretty  tacky), but Bally’s would be my choice. IMO that’s the best location for a self-contained entertainment destination.  I like the looks of Cordish the best but hate that location for it.  Tearing down the train factory just to build something that they brag would look like a dozen other cities in the USA  is tragic.  A nonstarter. 
 

It won’t add to SA, it will compete with it. IMO there is a greater possibility of casino tourists leaving the Urban One or Bally’s location and driving into SA to check it out (while in the Richmond area) than casino goers leaving multiple restaurants and bars at Cordish to cross the street.  People coming into town to visit Cordish will feel like  they’ve already seen that part of town and move on to another before getting back on 95. 

[rjp212]

I'll have to completely disagree with @Brent114.

The Cordish location to me just seems like the best chance of actually creating additional economic spillover in the immediate area.   Bally's looks nice, but it'll be essentially a self contained campus.  One is just a horrible design, location and concept.  Live! seems to be better integrated into the neighborhood and I could see people leaving their hotel room to go explore the surrounding area.  Or people truly making a weekend trip to watch a baseball/VCU game, maybe play some poker, go to a concert,  hit up the museums, or hit up the other bars/restaurants nearby.  Tourists tend to enjoy walking and seeing things,  not getting in an Uber to get to another destination.

Edited March 25, 2021 by rjp212

[wrldcoupe4]

28 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Nice Urban One video...here’s Bally’s video:

 

And here is Cordish’s video:

Richmondlive.com

 

Here’s another UrbanOne. Have all 3 together here now for easy reference  

 

[wrldcoupe4]

Also slightly off topic, but cordish has been sitting on the hydroplant next to riverside on the James for like 15 years and hasn’t done anything. It’s really a waste. Would be nice to see them actually make that something one day or sell it to someone who would. 

[Brent114]

But are casino goers really tourists? 
I see local people going to the casino bars and restaurants but I don’t see casino goers walking six blocks into Scott’s Addition for dinner.  Casinos are known lavish their guests with free drink tickets and free buffet dinners after all.  They are windowless so you won’t even have a sense of place.   Cordish (well all of them) will spend millions to ensure that guests have no desire to leave the facility.  Casino goers do the Vegas Strip  then go look at Hover Dam. They don’t go checkout the local art museum. 

From my experience, after I spend a day in one new neighborhood, I move on to the  next.   Midtown on Monday, Soho and Chelsea on Tuesday, Brooklyn on Wednesday and the upper east side on Thursday (for example). 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Brent114

[Icetera]

7 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I don’t like any of them (pretty  tacky), but Bally’s would be my choice. IMO that’s the best location for a self-contained entertainment destination.  I like the looks of Cordish the best but hate that location for it.  Tearing down the train factory just to build something that they brag would look like a dozen other cities in the USA  is tragic.  A nonstarter. 
 

It won’t add to SA, it will compete with it. IMO there is a greater possibility of casino tourists leaving the Urban One or Bally’s location and driving into SA to check it out (while in the Richmond area) than casino goers leaving multiple restaurants and bars at Cordish to cross the street.  People coming into town to visit Cordish will feel like  they’ve already seen that part of town and move on to another before getting back on 95. 

 

4 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

I'll have to completely disagree with @Brent114.

The Cordish location to me just seems like the best chance of actually creating additional economic spillover in the immediate area.   Bally's looks nice, but it'll be essentially a self contained campus.  One is just a horrible design, location and concept.  Live! seems to be better integrated into the neighborhood and I could see people leaving their hotel room to go explore the surrounding area.  Or people truly making a weekend trip to watch a baseball/VCU game, maybe play some poker, go to a concert,  hit up the museums, or hit up the other bars/restaurants nearby.  Tourists tend to enjoy walking and seeing things,  not getting in an Uber to get to another destination.

I fully agree that tearing down the Locomotive factory is a hard no, but I have mixed feelings otherwise.  The Bally's proposal has nicer, calmer design and would be great if we just want tax revenue and jobs, but I do believe it is too self contained to encourage most visitors to venture beyond the resort (example: Foxwood's Resort Casino).  While the City has been pushing for development at this location forever, there is not really much else in the area in need of a catalyst.  While Scott's Addition does not need the boost, I do believe that location allows for the best synergy.  It has access to mass transit for tourists, locals and workers alike while having many compatible businesses and facilities within walking distance (example anything along Las Vegas strip).  I believe this is key to making this a great asset for for the metro and not just a tax generator.  Live! has visibility and direct access to I-95/64 whereas no one aside from locals from the wrong side of the Wall (I kid) will ever pass the Bally's site.

I really have nothing to say about the UrbanOne proposal, it is not worth my time.

[rjp212]

If you are drinking with buddies, walking 6 blocks is nothing.  People already do pub crawls all throughout the area.

There will always be those people who stay inside a casino all day, but most people hit up a casino just for the quick excitement and then venture out.     There will also be those people who want to spend a day in Scotts Addition for the breweries and maybe swing by the casino for a bit.  I do wish they could incorporate the train factory into the project, and who is to say this is the final rendering?   If they want approval, push to have city council incorporate the Train Factory into the project.  As @Icetera mentioned, it just has the best chance of creating a critical mass for an entertainment district.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by rjp212

[Icetera]

11 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

But are casino goers really tourists? 
I see local people going to the casino bars and restaurants but I don’t see casino goers walking six blocks into Scott’s Addition for dinner.  Casinos are known lavish their guests with free drink tickets and free buffet dinners after all.  They are windowless so you won’t even have a sense of place.   Cordish (well all of them) will spend millions to ensure that guests have no desire to leave the facility.  Casino goers do the Vegas Strip  then go look at Hover Dam. They don’t go checkout the local art museum. 

From my experience, after I spend a day in one new neighborhood, I move on to the  next.   Midtown on Monday, Soho and Chelsea on Tuesday, Brooklyn on Wednesday and the upper east side on Thursday (for example). 

 

As someone who started to end up in Vegas somewhat regularly (and grew up near Foxwood''s and Mohegan Sun for comparison) I somehow have yet to make it to the Hoover Dam.  It is unfortunately far enough away to not be convenient as I would never bother with renting a car.  Instead I, and those with me, venture to things along the strip or within a reasonable distance including local restaurants (rarely in resort) or various other venues.  The monorail becomes a great asset for moving around but also helps to keep us along its path.  Also, alcohol can certainly be a factor to wandering in the vicinity, just as it is now for those in SA, except tack on free/cheap booze (assuming ABC allowance).

[Brent114]

Will these casinos even hire locally? 
I agree that the SA location would be the best place for local employees (Richmond residents) but I assume that the casinos will cast a wide net when hiring (assuring the most polished employees to protect the brand).  Driving probably won’t be an issue. 
 

Urban One seems pretty cool.  The studio is an interesting element.  Could that work? 
That’s  the ugliest location (and design)  but has good access and visibility too. 

[wrldcoupe4]

Coming from someone who is not a big casino/gambler but doesn’t have a problem with there being one somewhere in Richmond ... Can you guys point to another place that is comparable to Richmond (not Vegas) where a casino drives lots of investment around it? Scott’s Addition is already booming and I can’t imagine VCU is keen to have one next to its athletic village. What do the Science Museum and Children’s Museum think? The city’s boulevard land doesn’t need a casino as a catalyst. Would it have an opposite effect on the surroundings? What happens other places? I’m leaning towards the casino proposals that sit by themselves but can always be persuaded.  

Edited March 25, 2021 by wrldcoupe4

[Brent114]

Scott’s Addition doesn’t need the synergy  and I’m fine with a big fat cash cow at the edge of town:) 

I’d be excited about Cordish I guess (something flashy to look at).  But I see it as a drain on the local businesses not a boost.   I can see locals choosing the new casino restaurants and bars over Fat Dragon (for example).  I don’t see the family from Rocky Mount crossing the street for Fat Dragon when there is some Asian fusion restaurant right there in the casino complex. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Brent114

[Icetera]

14 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Coming from someone who is not a big casino/gambler but doesn’t have a problem with there being one somewhere in Richmond ... Can you guys point to another place that is comparable to Richmond (not Vegas) where a casino drives lots of investment around it? Scott’s Addition is already booming and I can’t imagine VCU is keen to have one next to its athletic village. What do the Science Museum and Children’s Museum think? The city’s boulevard land doesn’t need a casino as a catalyst. Would it have an opposite effect on the surroundings? What happens other places? I’m leaning towards the casino proposals that sit by themselves but can always be persuaded.  

The closest comparisons in the States I can think of are Detroit's MGM Grand and Greektown.  MGM is in the city center but more isolated in design where Greektown is surrounded by local businesses.  In general, is it probably comparable to the effects of an arena.  If things can be walkable and the project is not low quality then businesses can thrive around it.  If it is disconnected like PNC Arena or many casino resorts then it it remains isolated.  The only intercity casino complex I have personally visited was in Melbourne, VIC and the area around it was one of the fastest developing neighborhoods.  How much the casino was a factor I could not say but it was definitely higher quality.

Speaking of arenas, with the failure of Navy Hill, these resorts would now likely also be our major concert venues for the foreseeable future (unless Green City succeeds).  Acts that used to play the coliseum may play the casino venue so keep in mind where those patrons will end up before/after the show (and how they will get there).

[whw53]

More news on the casino development. Looks like Council Member Jordan who represents SA is a hard no against the Cordish plan. 
 
Also looks like there are a few virtual meetings next week if you’d like to join and learn more (see more info in link below):
https://www.nbc12.com/2021/03/24/casino-resort-proposals-move-onto-next-phase-selection-process-richmond/

Gawd shes really filling Kim Gray's shoes now isnt she - NIMBY arguments I couldn't even make up if I tried. While I am in the hard 'save the loco factory' and have been against this proposal since I saw the rendering lacking it, the ridiculousness of her 'vcu sportsplex is too close' almost warms me toward Cordish in a twisted sort of way. The last thing I want my council person doing is sanitizing the city for another state entity - lord knows VCU certainly doesn't need help or for god sakes a council person for that. Oh the sportsplex, u mean that vast underuse of space that will support only intermittent use and deliver next to no revenue to city coffers. Yes, let's build this district outward from that sacred ground (/s), which still has no real timeline or solid plan - christ, sorry for rant.thanks for the ear UP.

love your alls discussion.[mention=6844]rjp212[/mention] gave me bit of optimism. If Cordish can somehow come back with a site plan preserving the loco then I'm all in. It should be doable- as I've said before , the locomotive factory is in best possible location to work around simply lining one side, parallel to road, of an expansive property. Many configurations are possible there.


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[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

Of course, cause that's how we roll. 

 

I'm afraid that's all I can say at this point. Sadly, that really IS how we roll. 

HOW IN THE HEY HOWDY COULD WE SCREW THIS UP SO BADLY????  THIS WAS A TAP-IN FOR EAGLE WAITING TO HAPPEN! NOW - WE'RE LOOKING AT DOUBLE-BOGEY!!!

[rjp212]

"Unlike traditional casinos, these urban versions are different in several ways. They tend to be built in existing buildings rather than as stand-alone structures. They are porous, meaning the casino has many exits that allow customers to leave, walk the streets, shop and then return for more gambling"

https://www.governing.com/archive/col-urban-casinos-court-cities.html

"In Cleveland, during the Horseshoe’s first year of business, it saw more than 5 million visitors, who redeemed $2.4 million in meals at local restaurants and booked 61,000 room nights. Also during that year, “downtown hotel occupancy was up 12.5 percent,” Kulczycki points out."

https://www.successfulmeetings.com/Strategy/Meetings-Events/Urban-Casinos-The-Rise-of-Downtown-Gaming

 

 

[I miss RVA]

From the WWBT-12 story: comments from Pamunkey Chief Robert Gray. I'd be curious to know exactly why the city jettisoned their proposal in favor of two that just don't get it done and a third that's going to be WWIII with the NIMBY gauntlet to be selected. 

Pamunkey Indian Tribe Chief Robert Gray released the following statement in regards to the rejection:

“The Pamunkey Indian Tribe was extremely disappointed to learn directly from the City of Richmond that its casino proposal would not receive any further consideration in the Richmond casino selection process. The timing of the decision, which comes before the public comment period has even concluded, seriously undermines confidence in the selection process and suggests a pre-determined outcome has been reached. The timing of this decision also suggests that public and community input will not be seriously considered in this process. Further, it appears that the City of Richmond did not afford the Pamunkey Indian Tribe the optional preference in state law that recognizes the Pamunkey Tribe’s ancestral heritage in the region. The Pamunkey Indian Tribe submitted the only 100 percent minority-owned, Virginia-based proposal. We were shocked to learn of our early dismissal from a process occurring in our native region and state, particularly in light of the fact that the Tribe was one of the first entities – if not the first – to talk to the City about gaming before commercial gaming was legalized in the Commonwealth.”

 

NOTE:  As of this hour, no story yet from the Times-Dispatch or Richmond BizSense. I want some details and some explanations!!!

[skinsfan]

I wonder if the Urban One casino has the edge over the other’s due to it being majority black owned.