Diamond Area / Hermitage Rd Corridor / Ownby District

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

I am cautiously optimistic for 2 reasons.

1. Maritza Pechin running this is very talented, and the team has said all the right things on what they want out of this.  Density, height, signature view from the interstate, no surface parking, etc.  They are saying everything that this should be, and they are excited about pursuing it.  That alone is big, so often the city doesn't even aim for what it should, never mind achieve anything close to it.

2.  This is a desirable project for developers and almost none of this is public money.   The ballpark aspect will probably be, but that's one small part.  If the city was paying for the whole thing or needed a tax deal they would absolutely cheap out and it would killed by NIMBYs and the development would be garbage.  This is desirable real estate right by the interstate, and RVA is growing, there's tons of demand for apartments.  We're not begging anyone to build this for us and giving them a tax deal.

That said the incompetent City Council with absolutely no vision still has to weigh in. 

I'm trying to be optimistic. Admittedly, I've been jaded by five decades of this city FUBARing potentially game-changing redevelopment opportunities, that almost as a defense mechanism, I keep preparing for the worst (in order to keep the letdown from feeling so catastrophic) while hoping for the best. That said:

1.) Maritza Pechin: 100% agreed. She is AMAZING. Extremely talented with tremendous vision and drive. She's the biggest win this city's government has had in my lifetime. I hope and pray she stays here and doesn't get lured to a bigger city (unfortunately, that seems to be the way things happen for RVA - we find otherworldly amazing talent, they make a big splash here and then get poached by another -- bigger/faster-growing -- city that doesn't need them as much as we do. ARGH!!!) Nonetheless, @123fakestreetI agree with you on all points of your first assertion.

2.) Agreed - this is a desireable project for developers. As for financing and how it's paid for, and what the final result might be, I defer to our experts @wrldcoupe4& @upzoningisgoodfor their weigh-in because they take a practical approach from a deep understanding of the inner workings of the CRE industry. I hope and pray all of the dynamics you mention in your second assertion prove out, @123fakestreet-- my only argument is that, no matter if the city ponies up $1 million or even so much as one penny, there will be NIMBYs. Whereas the "money NIMBY's" will scream "BUT THE SCHOOLS" - even if this project didn't require one single cent of public money, there will be the retentive nut jobs who will scream "BUT THE ARCHITECTURE"... "BUT THE HISTORY"... "BUT THE CHARM"... and all the other preservationist BS garbage that has absolutely NO application given the location of this redevelopment. They'll hop on the "We don't want to be (FILL IN THE BLANK - CITY OF CHOICE, be it Charlotte/Atlanta/Raleigh/Nashville/Austin, etc.)" bandwagon and protest traffic. We all know the drill. Not saying it will be enough to derail this - but I'm just putting out this reminder that these annoying folks WILL have a say in the matter.

3.) AGREED! Particularly depending on how much NIMBY pushback there is (or even absent much pushback) - I'm not convinced this City Council as currently constituted can get to seven "YES" votes on this redevelopment, particularly if past is prologue. And I find this part particularly galling - WHY waste SO much time and money - WHY involve SO much planning and SO many city resources in the planning department, WHY hold SO many public events, meetings, surveys, etc., WHY waste the time of professional development firms - ONLY TO HAVE A BUNCH OF POLITICAL CLOWNS VOTE THIS DOWN? Unfortunately, when it comes to City Council, the old adage of "garbage in, garbage out" certainly quite often applies.

Idk - I'm hoping and praying to be ve4ry pleasantly and happily surprised. And I also want to applaud the OUTSTANDING work that Maritza Pechin and ALL of the planners involved have put into making this project a reality. The city planners have done YEOMAN's work on this redevelopment and deserve ALL of the kudos that can be offered. They have been visionary champions for this city - and we all owe them a huge debt of gratitude. 

[123fakestreet]

38 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I hope and pray she stays here and doesn't get lured to a bigger city (unfortunately, that seems to be the way things happen for RVA - we find otherworldly amazing talent, they make a big splash here and then get poached by another

I would bet this is her signature project in this city to put on her resume and once it's done she's gone.  She's literally future Deputy Director of HUD material.

[I miss RVA]

30 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

I would bet this is her signature project in this city to put on her resume and once it's done she's gone.  She's literally future Deputy Director of HUD material.

Fully agreed. 

[eandslee]

2 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

I would bet this is her signature project in this city to put on her resume and once it's done she's gone.  She's literally future Deputy Director of HUD material.

These are the folks we need to stick around…as long as they don’t get bogged down in Richmond politics and get “tainted.”

[I miss RVA]

20 minutes ago, eandslee said:

These are the folks we need to stick around…as long as they don’t get bogged down in Richmond politics and get “tainted.”

Unfortunately, our track record is: the very folks we need to stick around here for a good long while are the very folks who do some great things for RVA and show how much promise this city has only to then pack their bags for the next challenge in bigger markets like Charlotte or Austin or Atlanta, cities that frankly don't NEED their talents - but are willing to pay a king's ransom (the kind that RVA either won't pay or can't afford) to get them. And of course, they do even greater, even more amazing things in those cities.

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Unfortunately, our track record is: the very folks we need to stick around here for a good long while are the very folks who do some great things for RVA and show how much promise this city has only to then pack their bags for the next challenge in bigger markets like Charlotte or Austin or Atlanta, cities that frankly don't NEED their talents - but are willing to pay a king's ransom (the kind that RVA either won't pay or can't afford) to get them. And of course, they do even greater, even more amazing things in those cities.

 

The thing is it's not like Richmond can't afford to pay them. You're talking about a handful of people. What more money do they need? $50, $75k more? That's an absolute nothing in the city's budget to retain talented people, ignoring that the city would reap far more than that down the road from these people's talents. No, the city just isn't willing to pay people what they are worth.

[I miss RVA]

5 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

TNo, the city just isn't willing to pay people what they are worth.

Well said.

And by extension, we can then call into question the city's commitment to development and growth. Why? Because if the city isn't willing to pony up what it would take to keep top-tier talent from going to Tier-1 cities, then (at least to me) it's blatantly obvious that the city honestly doens't care about growing and moving up the food chain of cities. If RVA REALLLLLLY was interested in advancing to the point of becoming a Tier-1 city, she'd do EVERYTHING humanly possible to tip the competitive scales in our favor. And YES - COMPETITIVE! Whether or not we want to accept it, cities COMPETE for talent and resources - and for whatever insane reason, RVA has shown a rather distinct aversion to engaging in that competition that other cities are so clearly winning. 

I'm convinced that if the city lets Maritza Pechin get away down the road (particularly if it's in the wake of making the Diamond District, City Center or both happen) - it will be quite telling.

[eandslee]

4 minutes ago, Shakman said:

*delete*

You know it’s a slow news day when this encapsulates all of the discussion on Richmond development thus far today.  LOL!

[Downtowner]

Definitely crickets chirping today. 

[Hike]

15 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

Definitely crickets chirping today. 

 

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

You know it’s a slow news day when this encapsulates all of the discussion on Richmond development thus far today.  LOL!

I’m hoping it’sa calm before the storm.  Since it’s July, vacations and likely not much going on in general, is my assumption. I’m up in the Shenandoah National Park where it’s currently 68 degrees, woke up to 53, don’t want to wish summer away but love cool air.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

 

I’m hoping it’sa calm before the storm.  Since it’s July, vacations and likely not much going on in general, is my assumption. I’m up in the Shenandoah National Park where it’s currently 68 degrees, woke up to 53, don’t want to wish summer away but love cool air.

My kind of weather! Any time that the temperatures are below normal in the summer is a blessing in my book. I'll take upper 60s-over-low 50s for daytime highs and nighttime lows in the summer ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

I'll make you a deal - I wish summer away EVERY YEAR - I can't stand summer - hate it with a passion. I live for fall and winter (yes, even up here in Chicago, where winter can get pretty rough, particularly when a polar vortex decides to pay a visit to the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes region) - so I'll do the wishing away of summer on your behalf. That way, you don't have to. 

[Hike]

42 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

My kind of weather! Any time that the temperatures are below normal in the summer is a blessing in my book. I'll take upper 60s-over-low 50s for daytime highs and nighttime lows in the summer ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

I'll make you a deal - I wish summer away EVERY YEAR - I can't stand summer - hate it with a passion. I live for fall and winter (yes, even up here in Chicago, where winter can get pretty rough, particularly when a polar vortex decides to pay a visit to the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes region) - so I'll do the wishing away of summer on your behalf. That way, you don't have to. 

Totally agree, my hiking energy in summer/ hot days is gone, sweating, just gross, but on cool days and winter, can hike all day, no sweat and moving keeps you warm. Only down side to winter is the shorter days but can deal with that. Not sure how as a young person I loved summer so much, guess it was the beach and no school, as an adult, don’t care for heat and humidity, just ruins being outdoors.

 This is our setup.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Hike

[I miss RVA]

17 minutes ago, Hike said:

Totally agree, my hiking energy in summer/ hot days is gone, sweating, just gross, but on cool days and winter, can hike all day, no sweat and moving keeps you warm. Only down side to winter is the shorter days but can deal with that. Not sure how as a young person I loved summer so much, guess it was the beach and no school, as an adult, don’t care for heat and humidity, just ruins being outdoors.

 This is our setup.

Sweet setup! Everything looks very lush. Shenandoah Nat'l Park is GORGEOUS this time of year, and particularly when the temperatures are a good 15 or so degrees cooler (with lower humidity) than you'll find east of the mountains, it's a perfect vacation spot. My preference - even as far back as I can recall when I was little - was the mountains over the beach, hands down. Mind you, I enjoyed going to the beach as well - but if I had to choose between the two, I'd always pick the mountains. 

[Hike]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Sweet setup! Everything looks very lush. Shenandoah Nat'l Park is GORGEOUS this time of year, and particularly when the temperatures are a good 15 or so degrees cooler (with lower humidity) than you'll find east of the mountains, it's a perfect vacation spot. My preference - even as far back as I can recall when I was little - was the mountains over the beach, hands down. Mind you, I enjoyed going to the beach as well - but if I had to choose between the two, I'd always pick the mountains. 

It’s been an evolution, camped in back packing tents for years, hiked the Appalachian trail, not thru-hiker, but a lot of long distance weeks long adventures, then car camped in a big tent, still slept on the ground but thick pads, then we got a teardrop camper, you just crawled into the door and slept on a comfy mattress, everything else outside, now we have the one shown here, we can stand up, get out of the rain, has a table and full time bed but it’s still primitive, no refrigerator, no bathroom, just comfy and we’re standing up. Hope this is the end of the line for campers, I really don’t like the next step up, then it’s generators, bigger size, tv, heavy, large truck required, my next phase may be a cabin!

[Shakman]

Awesome setup Hike.  From late fall through mid-spring is my hiking weather.  Usually up and down the AT.    

I say 10-years from now the Diamond District may look like that.     

Edited July 11, 2022 by Shakman

[Hike]

7 minutes ago, Shakman said:

Awesome setup Hike.  From late fall through mid-spring is my hiking weather.  Usually up and down the AT.    

I say 10-years from now the Diamond District may look like that.     

Thanks @Shakman as for the Diamond district, let’s hope not!

[I miss RVA]

36 minutes ago, Hike said:

Thanks @Shakman as for the Diamond district, let’s hope not!

AMEN to that!!

[eandslee]

I know July isn’t over yet, but shouldn’t we be hearing who the preferred developer of the Diamond District is and what the actual plans are about now?  Gee, this decision can’t come soon enough.  Then we have to wait for City Council to vote and approve the decision in…September (at least a month and a half away).

[I miss RVA]

4 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I know July isn’t over yet, but shouldn’t we be hearing who the preferred developer of the Diamond District is and what the actual plans are about now?  Gee, this decision can’t come soon enough.  Then we have to wait for City Council to vote and approve the decision in…September (at least a month and a half away).

It'll come. Our current "Christmas/Hanukkah in July Special" has more than made up for the delay in this announcement, methinks. AND - as far as September goes - we have something HUGE to look forward to - CoStar breaking ground! I have to say - these last two weeks or so have TOTALLY blown all my wildest expectations out of the water. Remember the question of "what surprises" might be forth coming in this second half of the year? I think the NYC-developers' plans for the Rivers Edge II site in Manchester hammered that one out of the park like Mantle nearly putting one out of old (original) Yankee Stadium.

All of that to say -- so much has happened these past two weeks that the Diamond District announcement - previously seen as a "meat-and-potatoes" moment - now almost feels more like an "icing on the cake" moment in light of everything else. Much as we all have legitimate concern of the city (as is her wont) God-forbid screwing up the Diamond District redevelopment, at this point, I'm almost MORE concerned about the city (GOD-FORBID) fumbling away what was announced this morning. It's not every day we get NYC developers - WHO ARE ALREADY BUILDING IN THAT DARTH VADER CALLED "CHARLOTTE" - come to RVA with BIG plans to make a BIG splash that will have BIG benefits for Richmond. Right now, I'm putting the new Manchester riverfront towers project as the TOP-PRIORITY "MUST-HAVE" development that this city needs to fight tooth-and-nail to ensure we get, with no watering down, no truncation, no reduction in size, scale, height, scope. Period.

I know - that seems crazy to place this above the Diamond District. But I think it's THAT important a development because of the precedent and the signal it will send to other out-of-town/out-of-state developers. A green light on this project will send out that strong message to developers nationwide that, yes, RVA is a good place in which to do business - and, as the late-great Johnny Olson used to say on "The Price is Right" - "COME ON DOWNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!"

Not only that - we talk about RVA's market size holding us back in terms of height - and here we have developers with pockets more than deep enough to withstand the currently unusually high costs of construction and who are ready, willing and able to pony up whatever is necessary to build tall in the city - and they obviously see tremendous ROI potential in doing so - otherwise this would be a non-starter.

Anyway... apologies for going way off-topic on the Diamond District thread...

[Virginian11]

Is this the week that we get word on the final decision on proposals???  Pretty pumped to see which we’re rolling with…

[Hike]

55 minutes ago, Virginian11 said:

Is this the week that we get word on the final decision on proposals???  Pretty pumped to see which we’re rolling with…

channel 12 article indicates in July a decision will be made, though I can't see a conformation of this on the proposal website.

https://www.nbc12.com/2022/06/30/diamond-district-finalists-meet-deadline-submit-proposals/

https://www.rva.gov/economic-development/diamond

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

channel 12 article indicates in July a decision will be made, though I can't see a conformation of this on the proposal website.

https://www.nbc12.com/2022/06/30/diamond-district-finalists-meet-deadline-submit-proposals/

https://www.rva.gov/economic-development/diamond

While on the one hand I'm excited, on the other hand, I am VERY much filled with anxiety (I won't say 'dread' but it's not far from it) simply because I can't shake the feeling that the evaluation committee with without ANY doubt, choose the most "meh" pathway possible. I hope and pray I'm wrong - but if past is prologue... 

[I miss RVA]

Interesting story in today's RBS about a new entertainment venue being developed on the A.H. Robins campus not far from the Diamond District. With whatever might come to pass in the Diamond District, this might be a really good location for such a fun, family-friendly kind of place. Looks like a really good repurposing of the old Robins campus.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/07/25/the-park-at-rva-entertainment-venue-in-the-works-near-the-diamond/

[Brent114]

I’m not sure what to make of this concept. 

I’m generally not a fan of putting a bunch of different activities in a single building.  Personally I have no interest in a one stop shopping experience.  I like walking from a bar to an arcade then having dinner somewhere  else, then at 10:00 I’ll head over to a concert venue.  Parking along the interstate and having it all in one location seems really uninteresting to me.  

It also feels greedy.  To be successful it will have to poach customers from places that offer these activities.  This concept is pretty much Sling Shot, for example.  Getting a beer and playing duck pin billowing then seeing a show meant going to two-three places.  all under one roof means fewer places get business. 
 

I dunno.  Seems lazy, like they couldn’t come up with a unique concept so they are just doing what other people found success in doing.   Hopefully it’s far enough away from Scott’s Addition that it wont really effect business there.  Of course it is nice to see a repurposing of this space and of course I hope it’s successful. 

[wrldcoupe4]

Speaking of lazy, looks like demolition is occurring for the strip mall drive thru project Thalhimer is doing across from the Diamond.