Diamond Area / Hermitage Rd Corridor / Ownby District

[123fakestreet]

This was the only plan I didn't like. So of course the city goes with it.

[Flood Zone]

9 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

No idea what the deal is with 11 acres of park space. Some might disagree - but I think that's a colossal waste of precious developable space. It looks like you could almost plunk a golf course down in the middle of the whole plan. Idk - maybe a smaller park footprint would work - but... whatever. This is apparently what we have to work with.

 

I agree -- but also disagree. It's how the park space is used. Something like The Yards in DC (near Nationals Park) mixes in green space quite well within a larger live-work-play development. Also, the ratio of developed space to park space is 5:1, so there's still quite a bit of land on the table here. Traffic flow may be an issue, but I'll take park space over a massive surface parking lot. The current one at The Diamond has to approach 11 acres, right?

Anyway, although I don't want to be the board contrarian or apologist for a proposal I didn't even want to win, I have faith a process led by Maritza Pechin is going to be good. It's rare, especially where she works, for someone to be thought of so highly by so many people.

[wrldcoupe4]

Yards park on the waterfront is half the size (5.5 acres) of what is proposed here. Of course a green space is better than a parking lot, but a smaller green space or multiple green pockets allows for additional density and vibrancy. Otherwise, this place is going to be a total snooze fest most days. Who will maintain the park?  Is it a true public space? The city doesn't maintain parks well. Look at how it screws up the ability to have a proper grid layout. Oh well.

[Hike]

1 minute ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Yards park on the waterfront is half the size (5.5 acres) of what is proposed here. Of course a green space is better than a parking lot, but a smaller green space or multiple green pockets allows for additional density and vibrancy. Otherwise, this place is going to be a total snooze fest most days. Who will maintain the park?  Is it a true public space? The city doesn't maintain parks well. Look at how it screws up the ability to have a proper grid layout. Oh well.

I was beginning to feel ok about the park concept then you reminded me of how Richmond fails to take care of other parks. 

[Downtowner]

It’s going to be a large field of overgrown weeds with time. Also where are fans going to park to see a game? Most of the fans come from the suburbs. 

[Flood Zone]

12 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Yards park on the waterfront is half the size (5.5 acres) of what is proposed here. Of course a green space is better than a parking lot, but a smaller green space or multiple green pockets allows for additional density and vibrancy. Otherwise, this place is going to be a total snooze fest most days. Who will maintain the park?  Is it a true public space? The city doesn't maintain parks well. Look at how it screws up the ability to have a proper grid layout. Oh well.

OK, these are fair points. Thanks.

[wrldcoupe4]

37 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

It’s going to be a large field of overgrown weeds with time. Also where are fans going to park to see a game? Most of the fans come from the suburbs. 

I'm pretty sure the parking is tucked into the other buildings. I assume they'll build enough to accommodate the in building use plus the excess for gamedays?

[rjp212]

Parking?!?  There's decks everywhere throughout the complex.  Nearly every midsized city has a ballpark in their downtown now and it's not an issue.   Even Greensboro has it figured out.

[Wahoo 07]

While this proposal isn't perfect, it's a massive improvement over the current site.  My hope (and top priority) is that, whatever gets built, it will be a 24/7/365 district.  

[123fakestreet]

1 hour ago, Downtowner said:

It’s going to be a large field of overgrown weeds with time. . 

Exactly. I said this from the first concept art I saw. Too much green space.  We should prioritize density, and we don't need that much green space regardless.  On top of that the city will just fail to maintain it then it will look like crap.

My fears realized, the city isn't capable of not screwing this up.

[wrldcoupe4]

32 minutes ago, Wahoo 07 said:

While this proposal isn't perfect, it's a massive improvement over the current site.  My hope (and top priority) is that, whatever gets built, it will be a 24/7/365 district.  

I hear you, but not going to happen if the density is akin to the renderings provided. 

[Downtowner]

1 hour ago, rjp212 said:

Parking?!?  There's decks everywhere throughout the complex.  Nearly every midsized city has a ballpark in their downtown now and it's not an issue.   Even Greensboro has it figured out.

Yeah but I see zero decks in the rendering of the whole plan. If they are integrating it into the buildings around the ballpark you better hope the dear lord you have enough for people coming from out of town and from the suburbs. I have met a lot of fans from other states and other areas. Also have family members coming to games to watch there children play in these minor league games. So they better be thinking not just of the suburban folks around Richmond but people from other states. Let me tell you people in Philly and nyc take there baseball ver seriously and a lot of those same fans come to Richmond to see there up and coming players. Trust me I grew up and played with guys who were first round picks in the mlb draft. Teams build young now and that’s how you win the big one now is home grown talent not buying through free agency anymore. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Downtowner

[rjp212]

Just now, Downtowner said:

Yeah but I see zero decks in the rendering of the whole plan. If they are integrating it into the buildings around the ballpark you better hope the dear lord you have enough for people coming from out of town and from the suburbs. I have met a lot of fans from other states and other areas. Also have family members coming to games to watch there children play in these minor league games. So they better be thinking not just of the suburban folks around Richmond but people from other states. Let me tell you people in Philly and nyc take there baseball feet seriously and a lot of those same fans come to Richmond to see there up and coming players. Trust me I grew up and played with guys who were first round picks in the mlb draft. Teams build young now and that’s how you win the big one now is home grown talent not buying through free agency anymore. 

You are in a city, so if parking is necessary it should be in decks not parking lots.   We should not be putting in parking lots for suburbanites to park once or twice a year and contribute nothing to city property taxes.  The above is a concept and not the final plan, however, every building has a parking deck attached to it (hidden under the green).  

[Downtowner]

Also it this is going to be 10k capacity total I will  let you in on something I have heard from people I know within the baseball business and it can and will very well happen in several years once the stadium is complete. We will be moving back to triple a with the squirrels. The plan is to make Rochester redwings double a and then squirrels triple a and make them the nationals triple a team. A close family friend of mine and my cousin who my cousin grew up with is the single a manager of the Fredericksburg nationals and he said the nationals want Richmond badly but can’t until the giants are pushed out and we can make the squirrels triple a. The Jacksonville jumbo shrimp just did this this past off season.  So expect this down the road. We will be back in triple a very soon. Teams want close proximity to there mlb roster like the Braves wanted with Gwinnett. Mlb teams care about that now more than anything. Being able to ship a kid up 95 before a game is a huge plus for us and the Nationals.

4 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

You are in a city, so if parking is necessary it should be in decks not parking lots.   We should not be putting in parking lots for suburbanites to park once or twice a year and contribute nothing to city property taxes.  The above is a concept and not the final plan, however, every building has a parking deck attached to it (hidden under the green).  

i never said I wanted a lot I want decks not lots. If you integrate decks into those buildings you better know what your doing 10,000 fans while all won’t be from out of state and suburban Richmond you better hope you have plenty of spots even for 6-7-8k people. Someone better hope they know what they are doing to get this right on the parking for the new ballpark or you could be asking for disaster. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Downtowner

[I miss RVA]

40 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

I hear you, but not going to happen if the density is akin to the renderings provided. 

AMEN! 

 

3 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Yards park on the waterfront is half the size (5.5 acres) of what is proposed here. Of course a green space is better than a parking lot, but a smaller green space or multiple green pockets allows for additional density and vibrancy. Otherwise, this place is going to be a total snooze fest most days. Who will maintain the park?  Is it a true public space? The city doesn't maintain parks well. Look at how it screws up the ability to have a proper grid layout. Oh well.

This (what Coupe is suggesting here) would be FAR better than a huge swath of greenspace that bisects the development as shown in the current conceptual proposal. The 11-acres is fully 1/6 of the total acreage. Why not cut that in half and boost density and development? Also - I agree about the lack of a proper street grid - what happened to that? 

[Jawless]

More in-depth image of phase 1 I just saw in this twitter thread. 

 

[wrldcoupe4]

Thanks for sharing this. It makes me like it even less. Are we seriously building two over two town houses on this site? They don’t contemplate any commercial development of any scale in the first phase? All I see is hotel and residential with what I’m assuming is some sprinkled in ground floor retail space. This has the density and suburban feel of West Broad village but they decided to throw in a ballpark. Woo hoo!

[BigBobbyG]

I mean those 4-5 multi-family buildings could end up being pretty big right? I agree that two-over-two Townhomes aren't really ideal but I'm also not surprised by their inclusion, I've seen a decent amount of people complaining about the lack of options to buy new construction as Richmond has been getting more dense.  Not saying they are right, just not surprised by them throwing those people a bone.

[123fakestreet]

Wasn't the whole selling point of this spot for developers that it is right off 95/64? For major retail?  So we have 4 multifamily buildings, 2 townhome buildings and an office building. Zero retail.

 

I get that's phase 1, but 100% of phase 2 better be retail. I also see where they said 15 years to complete. I realize this is a huge project, but FIFTEEN YEARS? I was thinking like 5-6.

[I miss RVA]

58 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Thanks for sharing this. It makes me like it even less. Are we seriously building two over two town houses on this site? They don’t contemplate any commercial development of any scale in the first phase? All I see is hotel and residential with what I’m assuming is some sprinkled in ground floor retail space. This has the density and suburban feel of West Broad village but they decided to throw in a ballpark. Woo hoo!

Welcome to Thalhimer World.

Agreed, Coupe - the more I see of this, the less I'm liking it as well. Here are a few more details taken from Jahd Khalil's Twitter feed:

 

[rjp212]

I'm curious what type of retail everyone expects here? I always assumed it would be ground floor retail with maybe a grocery store.  Are you wanting a big box store? And if so, what big box stores are still doing well outside of Target and Walmart? Nearly everyone is closing down.

[I miss RVA]

49 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

I'm curious what type of retail everyone expects here? I always assumed it would be ground floor retail with maybe a grocery store.  Are you wanting a big box store? And if so, what big box stores are still doing well outside of Target and Walmart? Nearly everyone is closing down.

Not necessarily big-box store type retail, though there are plenty of cities (Chicago being one of them) where urban-footprint Targets are doing quite well. But any variety of street-level-storefront retailers that you would see in traditional urban-core neighborhoods. What retailing is there in large-scale residential/mixed-used developments in NOVA? I think you could look to that region for examples of what folks are looking for.

Edited September 13, 2022 by I miss RVA

[rjp212]

And how does 60,000 sf of retail in phase 1 not accomplish that? 

[123fakestreet]

1 hour ago, rjp212 said:

I'm curious what type of retail everyone expects here? I always assumed it would be ground floor retail with maybe a grocery store.  Are you wanting a big box store? And if so, what big box stores are still doing well outside of Target and Walmart? Nearly everyone is closing down.

Yes, I was assuming several big box retailers with some smaller ones mixed in. We need a Target/Walmart in this part of the city.  Given the proximity to 95 I was expecting at least 1 unique "draw" retailer like an Ikea (yes, with NOVA and Norfolk having an Ikea we won't get one, but something similar)

Edited September 13, 2022 by 123fakestreet

[BigBobbyG]

Don't get me wrong I like the idea of a "draw" retailer but I don't really see how something massive like Ikea would be beneficial to making a dense urban area. Maybe if there's apartments on top of the Ikea? But I've never seen that happen.