Diamond Area / Hermitage Rd Corridor / Ownby District

[rjp212]

I'd love to see an urban layout Target and a bookstore, however,  those aren't going to situate themselves in the back of the development next to a ballpark.   Those type of stores want their logos visible from the highways, so you're more likely to see them in this wedge.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by rjp212

[I miss RVA]

29 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

I'd love to see an urban layout Target and a bookstore, however,  those aren't going to situate themselves in the back of the development next to a ballpark.   Those type of stores want their logos visible from the highways, so you're more likely to see them in this wedge.

 

Agreed - plus, for certain the retailer would want to face Arthur Ashe Boulevard I would tend to think. Ugh - what a difference the "side of the street" would make ... can you imagine looking out from your new residential or office location - or a new retailer - looking out at Arthur Ashe Boulevard at ... a freakin' WaWa ... and the little mini-mall/fast-food eatery place... and the bus station...    Not exactly an urban-planning version of the "beatific vision".

Jesus - the only development of ANY substantial worth on the west side of the street that's actually ON Arthur Ashe Blvd is the Novel -- and it's all the way down at the bridge, across the street from the ballpark. The other large apartment building at the north end of this stretch of A.A. Blvd is well back off of Arthur Ashe on Ellen Road.

Typical lack of cohesion that this city has become famous for when it comes to handling/planning for these kinds of things. Wow... Thanks a BUNCH, Thalhimer.

Edited September 13, 2022 by I miss RVA

[rjp212]

A few clearing renderings:

 

https://www.rva.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/Diamond Handout.pdf

Edited September 14, 2022 by rjp212

[123fakestreet]

43 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

A few clearing renderings:

 

https://www.rva.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/Diamond Handout.pdf

The cost of the baseball stadium and the public infrastructure will be financed with Community Development Authority (CDA) bond financing, which will be non-recourse to the City, meaning the City will not have a moral or financial obligation to repay the bonds if there is a shortfall. 

The CDA bond financing will be repaid using: (1) tax revenues generated in the CDA district (which is the boundary of the Diamond District) from the real estate tax; business, professional, and occupational license tax; meals tax (excluding the 1.5% for schools); a 2% additional assessment on hotel revenues; and a 0.25% additional tax on sales; and (2) revenues generated in the baseball stadium from the admissions tax; the local portion of the state sales tax; lease payments; and other negotiated revenues.

Sounds like a TIF.  They have wisely not called it that this time since Richmond NIMBYs are too dumb to understand how it works.

[Brent114]

People aren’t stupid.   Navy Hill was pure trash and they were creating the TIF outside the boundaries of the development, potentially removing existing revenue from the city.  Calling it a TIF was not the problem. 
 

This seems reasonable.  The “TIF” only applies to the Diamond District.  Aside from the Diamond, nothing here generates any tax revue for the city anyway, so there’s no loss.  

[Jawless]

I get a kick out of the Diamond Inn & Suites being in that rendering. I hope that place is gone before all of this is finished. 

[123fakestreet]

7 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

 removing existing revenue from the city.  

So you don't understand how a TIF works then.

Edited September 14, 2022 by 123fakestreet

[benstyree]

I don't hate the overall design of this concept, but I really can't get my mind behind the giant serpentine park snaking through the entire development.  Aside from the unlikelihood that it will be properly maintained, as others have mentioned, it just creates an unnecessary divide between the two sides of the neighborhood.  I'm all for appropriate green space, but I think this would better suited by multiple smaller park areas, perhaps 1) a plaza with a water feature and benches/tables, 2) a nice playground for kids of varied ages, 3) a skate park/basketball courts for older kids and younger adults, and/or 4) a larger green area where people can picnic, toss a frisbee, etc.  These don't all have to be the same park, nor should they be.  These smaller areas would also lend themselves more to a traditional street grid.  As best I can tell from the rendering, there is only one through street across the park - this seems like a nightmare with all of the anticipated new residents, office workers, etc. (not to mention game days).  This concept seems like the developer realized they needed to include some green space, so just took a green highlighter and went down the middle of the page.

[Flood Zone]

According to RTD: "Stoney said Tuesday that the project has the seven votes it needs to pass the City Council, as all but two members have signed on as legislative patrons."
 

[Brent114]

57 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

So you don't understand how a TIF works then.

I do.  With the Navy Hill plan taxable real estate outside of the redevelopment area was included in the TIF.  Tax revenue in excess of what the property is currently  appraised would go towards funding the development if the revenue generated from said development wasn’t sufficient.  
 

All property appreciates.  In the event that the development wasn’t paying for itself, taxes (the additional revenue thanks to appreciation, which again is inevitable, above the original assessment) that would be collected on the properties around town  would go to pay down the debt at Navy Hill. 

 

Navy Hill was no farther along in development than the Diamond District is now yet some were salivating over generic boxes with no dedicated tenants or uses.  Many were happy to demolish and rebuild, some times directly across the street, existing and functional buildings.   Dominion’s second building was never built (it was in the TIF) and while the market seemed like it would build something,  that was massively scaled back because…there’s little demand (none in small and medium markets) for office space in this century. 
 

The Diamond District isn’t much better but at least it’s not putting potential tax revenue elsewhere  into its financing scheme. 
 

I don’t really care about this proposal.  I never expected it to be very interesting, urban or necessary.   What I like the least so far is that the new ball park looks very small townish.  The scale and style of the current Diamond is leaps above anything proposed.    These renderings look like a Kroger Marketplace. 

I know some are excited to see some taller buildings but even the 10-12 story buildings proposed probably aren’t as tall at the current Diamond roofline.  Don’t expect any of it to very visible. 

[Flood Zone]

43 minutes ago, benstyree said:

I don't hate the overall design of this concept, but I really can't get my mind behind the giant serpentine park snaking through the entire development.  Aside from the unlikelihood that it will be properly maintained, as others have mentioned, it just creates an unnecessary divide between the two sides of the neighborhood.  I'm all for appropriate green space, but I think this would better suited by multiple smaller park areas, perhaps 1) a plaza with a water feature and benches/tables, 2) a nice playground for kids of varied ages, 3) a skate park/basketball courts for older kids and younger adults, and/or 4) a larger green area where people can picnic, toss a frisbee, etc.  These don't all have to be the same park, nor should they be.  These smaller areas would also lend themselves more to a traditional street grid.  As best I can tell from the rendering, there is only one through street across the park - this seems like a nightmare with all of the anticipated new residents, office workers, etc. (not to mention game days).  This concept seems like the developer realized they needed to include some green space, so just took a green highlighter and went down the middle of the page.

The resolution posted on the city's website includes project details, including that the giant serpentine park ("Crescent Park") would be laid out with Piedmont and Coastal Plain features, which is primarily of interest to me because my kids are in elementary school and learning about Virginia's regions.  Attractions spaced throughout the park would seem to include a "Piedmont Playground," a skate park, a splash pad, and a "stormwater park." There's also a pavillion. Outside the Crescent Park, of note, there's a planned pedestrian bridge to Scott's Addition.

YMMV with all of this, of course.

[Downtowner]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

I do.  With the Navy Hill plan taxable real estate outside of the redevelopment area was included in the TIF.  Tax revenue in excess of what the property is currently  appraised would go towards funding the development if the revenue generated from said development wasn’t sufficient.  
 

All property appreciates.  In the event that the development wasn’t paying for itself, taxes (the additional revenue thanks to appreciation, which again is inevitable, above the original assessment) that would be collected on the properties around town  would go to pay down the debt at Navy Hill. 

 

Navy Hill was no farther along in development than the Diamond District is now yet some were salivating over generic boxes with no dedicated tenants or uses.  Many were happy to demolish and rebuild, some times directly across the street, existing and functional buildings.   Dominion’s second building was never built (it was in the TIF) and while the market seemed like it would build something,  that was massively scaled back because…there’s little demand (none in small and medium markets) for office space in this century. 
 

The Diamond District isn’t much better but at least it’s not putting potential tax revenue elsewhere  into its financing scheme. 
 

I don’t really care about this proposal.  I never expected it to be very interesting, urban or necessary.   What I like the least so far is that the new ball park looks very small townish.  The scale and style of the current Diamond is leaps above anything proposed.    These renderings look like a Kroger Marketplace. 

I know some are excited to see some taller buildings but even the 10-12 story buildings proposed probably aren’t as tall at the current Diamond roofline.  Don’t expect any of it to very visible. 

i will be honest with you the majority of minor league ballparks even triple a don’t have an upper deck like the current diamond and if they do have An upper deck it’s not much. The newer ballparks are pretty much all one level for minor leagues. You will probably never see another minor league stadium with an upper deck like the diamond but if you do it will be one that will start that trend like baltimore did with Camden yards and got rid of the round circle dual stadium mess. Good riddance too. I hated veterans stadium in Philly as well as cinergy park in cincy and the old Busch stadium in St. Louis. I always found that full circle style so ugly.  If we ever see a stadium again like the diamond it will have to be a trendsetter like Camden yards on a much smaller level.

[Virginian11]

2 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I do.  With the Navy Hill plan taxable real estate outside of the redevelopment area was included in the TIF.  Tax revenue in excess of what the property is currently  appraised would go towards funding the development if the revenue generated from said development wasn’t sufficient.  
 

All property appreciates.  In the event that the development wasn’t paying for itself, taxes (the additional revenue thanks to appreciation, which again is inevitable, above the original assessment) that would be collected on the properties around town  would go to pay down the debt at Navy Hill. 

 

Navy Hill was no farther along in development than the Diamond District is now yet some were salivating over generic boxes with no dedicated tenants or uses.  Many were happy to demolish and rebuild, some times directly across the street, existing and functional buildings.   Dominion’s second building was never built (it was in the TIF) and while the market seemed like it would build something,  that was massively scaled back because…there’s little demand (none in small and medium markets) for office space in this century. 
 

The Diamond District isn’t much better but at least it’s not putting potential tax revenue elsewhere  into its financing scheme. 
 

I don’t really care about this proposal.  I never expected it to be very interesting, urban or necessary.   What I like the least so far is that the new ball park looks very small townish.  The scale and style of the current Diamond is leaps above anything proposed.    These renderings look like a Kroger Marketplace. 

I know some are excited to see some taller buildings but even the 10-12 story buildings proposed probably aren’t as tall at the current Diamond roofline.  Don’t expect any of it to very visible. 

you hate every proposal ever!  The consistency is impressive.  No personal attack at all, just makes me laugh!  The differing opinions are what make this place great!  Appreciate your input.  

Edited September 14, 2022 by Virginian11

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, benstyree said:

I don't hate the overall design of this concept, but I really can't get my mind behind the giant serpentine park snaking through the entire development.  Aside from the unlikelihood that it will be properly maintained, as others have mentioned, it just creates an unnecessary divide between the two sides of the neighborhood.  I'm all for appropriate green space, but I think this would better suited by multiple smaller park areas, perhaps 1) a plaza with a water feature and benches/tables, 2) a nice playground for kids of varied ages, 3) a skate park/basketball courts for older kids and younger adults, and/or 4) a larger green area where people can picnic, toss a frisbee, etc.  These don't all have to be the same park, nor should they be.  These smaller areas would also lend themselves more to a traditional street grid.  As best I can tell from the rendering, there is only one through street across the park - this seems like a nightmare with all of the anticipated new residents, office workers, etc. (not to mention game days).  This concept seems like the developer realized they needed to include some green space, so just took a green highlighter and went down the middle of the page.

I'm not thrilled about just how much space is eaten up by that serpentine park. Fully agreed - boiling it down into smaller components of green space properly integrated would make such a difference - allowing for more development, more density and a more ready establishment of some form of proper street grid. The one cross street connecting A.A. Blvd and Hermitage WILL be a traffic nightmare - it's almost as if there's only one way in, one way out on either side of the development. I can't help but wonder if they went with a much larger, more sprawling green space PURPOSELY to eat up 11 acres specifically as a cost-cutting measure? Our CRE gurus could probably speculate on that with a far more educated guess than I can come up with.

[eandslee]

I’m not thrilled with how long this development will take to build out!  Folks, the majority of “the Diamond District” will sit as vacant land for, at least, another 8-10 years!  Think of it…I’ll be an old, old man when this thing is done in 15 years!  What I also don’t like is that there’s no way (that I’ve read) to fast-track this development if the market conditions warrant it because there is a set time when land for the different phases can be sold and built on. The last (4th) phase can’t even begin until 2033!!!! Just…wow.  That is just not exciting me…at all.

Edited September 15, 2022 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

12 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I’m not thrilled with how long this development will take to build out!  Folks, the majority of “the Diamond District” will sit as vacant land for, at least, another 8-10 years!  Think of it…I’ll be an old, old man when this thing is done in 15 years!  What I also don’t like is that there’s no way (that I’ve read) to fast-track this development if the market conditions warrant it because there is a set time when land for the different phases can be sold and built on. The last (4th) phase can’t even begin until 2033!!!! Just…wow.  That is just not exciting me…at all.

100% agreed there, my good friend. Holy moly - I'll be turning 75 (provided I make it that far!) when this thing is completed. Curious as to why they structured the land buy out and build out the way they did - thereby eliminating fast-tracking this if the market conditions were such to allow for it.

Wonder if there's any chance that could get changed down the road?

[plain]

Novel construction progress next to Greyhound. The way they're out here working I don't see this taking long at all!


 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by plain

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, plain said:

Novel construction progress next to Greyhound. The way they're out here working I don't see this taking long at all!


 

 

 

WOW! Thanks for taking and posting this gem! SO glad to see the Novel beginning to rise out of the ground. It might be complete by the time construction starts across the street on the new ballpark. I'm still just floored by the fact that the entire stretch of Arthur Ashe Boulevard along the west side of the street to Ellen Road (with the new residential building there set a few hundred feet west of the intersection) is going to be basically little more than junk. The decrepit bus station that really needs to be moved to an enhanced Main Street Station transportation hub ... and then the Thalhimer drive-through strip-mall-WaWa "welcome to 1950s suburbia!!!" garbage... right across the street from the Diamond District. Ugh - huge upside potential on one side of the street - and total garbage on the other side. How ridiculous is that!

[Brent114]

I’m very excited about the Novel building.  I was also pleasantly surprised to see that those new townhomes in SA (where the brick yard was) are visible from Arthur Ashe Blvd (near the WaWa).  They look great form the rail over pass too.  Even a 4 story building, if in the right location, can make a huge difference.  I was inspired to go check them out. 
 

I keep thinking about how much better the entrance to Richmond via Amtrak will be with this site completely built out and the Novel to the north. 

[I miss RVA]

11 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I’m very excited about the Novel building.  I was also pleasantly surprised to see that those new townhomes in SA (where the brick yard was) are visible from Arthur Ashe Blvd (near the WaWa).  They look great form the rail over pass too.  Even a 4 story building, if in the right location, can make a huge difference.  I was inspired to go check them out. 
 

I keep thinking about how much better the entrance to Richmond via Amtrak will be with this site completely built out and the Novel to the north. 

Great pic, @Brent114-- thanks so much for taking and posting it! Wow - very impressive structure. It's just mind-boggling how much construction is happening all across RVA right now.

[Brent114]

23 hours ago, Virginian11 said:

you hate every proposal ever!  The consistency is impressive.  No personal attack at all, just makes me laugh!  The differing opinions are what make this place great!  Appreciate your input.  

Actually I like most.  It is true that I don’t care for these tacky multi-block redevelopment schemes…because I’ve traveled extensively and they are always terrible everywhere that  they are built.  

I’m more agnostic on this one (and for the record, no one here seems that thrilled with this proposal).  The financing seems better and unlike with Navy Hill, the city isn’t doing goofy and expensive things with functional buildings.  There is also the potential for this to have a spillover effect on adjacent properties too.
 

I’ll  be happy to see construction, of course. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Brent114

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

Actually I like most.  It is true that I don’t care for these tacky multi-block redevelopment schemes…because I’ve traveled extensively and they are always terrible everywhere that  they are built.  

I’m more agnostic on this one (and for the record, no one here seems that thrilled with this proposal).  The financing seems better and unlike with Navy Hill, the city isn’t doing goofy and expensive things with functional buildings.  There is also the potential for this to have a spillover effect on adjacent properties too.
 

I’ll  be happy to see construction, of course. 

My biggest complaint really is the amount of space carved out for that serpentine park. A full 1/6 of the acreage going to that in one massive swath really is just too damn much. I think they were trying to keep costs down, tbh. 

Now - I realize none of any of this is "set in stone" when it comes to design of ACTUAL buildings - but for some reason, I actually LIKE this building on Arthur Ashe Boulevard - just north of the ballpark at the "entrance" (major cross street) to the Diamond District. That jagged roof is actually a kinda cool design -- and at somewhere between 12-14 stories (depending on if any of the first two floors are 'double-height' floor plates or are actually two floors) - this building is actually a little taller than I was anticipating! Mind you - I always want even MORE height- but to get something 12-14 stories at that location ain't something I'ma complainin' about. 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by I miss RVA

[blopp1234]

My guess is that the city chose this proposal BECAUSE of the park. Looking at the Richmond 300 plan for the boulevard area, they also have the large, serpentine esk park. I’m assuming the city wanted a larger park in that area of the city and this team was willing to provide that. I’m glad they are adding green space but I don’t think they needed this much. 
For perspective I’ll add pictures of the 300 plan vision and the selected proposal.

Richmond 300:

Selected Proposal:

They look VERY VERY similar.

Im also a big fan of the building right next to the ballpark. Should block the sun from hitting the first baseline during afternoon/evening games and create a nice gateway opposite of the Novel which is going up. Should really add a lot of new residents to the area which could be good for attracting national level retailers. 
 

I also managed to find a link to the cities PowerPoint that will be used at community meetings that is linked below. 
https://www.rva.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/DiamondDistrict_Sept14.pdf

Edited September 15, 2022 by blopp1234

[BigBobbyG]

I went to the informational meeting at the Washington Commanders (former?) Training Center last night and someone asked about an urban-footprint style Target (or something like it) being included in one of the later phases. Both the developer and the City seemed pretty pleased by the question and said they'd like to see something like that in the later phases and are in the process of putting together promotional material to court such a business. I think the developer even made the old joke about how its nearly impossible to buy a TV within city limits and said it's a shame.

In addition, I heard the same guy advocate for the phase 1 buildings to be as tall as possible and I wrote the same thing on the comment sheet so let's hope they do so!

[I miss RVA]

29 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

My guess is that the city chose this proposal BECAUSE of the park. Looking at the Richmond 300 plan for the boulevard area, they also have the large, serpentine esk park. I’m assuming the city wanted a larger park in that area of the city and this team was willing to provide that. I’m glad they are adding green space but I don’t think they needed this much. 
For perspective I’ll add pictures of the 300 plan vision and the selected proposal.

Richmond 300:

Selected Proposal:

They look VERY VERY similar.

Im also a big fan of the building right next to the ballpark. Should block the sun from hitting the first baseline during afternoon/evening games and create a nice gateway opposite of the Novel which is going up. Should really add a lot of new residents to the area which could be good for attracting national level retailers. 
 

I also managed to find a link to the cities PowerPoint that will be used at community meetings that is linked below. 
https://www.rva.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/DiamondDistrict_Sept14.pdf

Really good call on that, @blopp1234!  Methinks you're 100% spot on here. It DOES match up very closely with the Richmond 300 plan - only with the obvious shift of placing the ballpark in the SW-most corner of the development, which was the big design shift going into this process.

Yeah - that building next to the ballpark is really sweet, isn't it? Again, I realize these are just concepts - but wow - I'd love to see that one built there. It's got decent height (12-14 stories - not bad for that part of town) -and a very cool design and good massing. Love the size - very solid, and it integrates well at both the entrance to the Diamond District and with the ballpark. It's a keeper in my book. 

Agreed - 11 acres of green space is just WAYYYY too much - some is needed, of course, but not that much. Also agreed - that building, coupled with the Novel on the west side of A.A. Blvd., will do a LOT for the southern gateway to the Diamond District- and that big addition of residents will go a LONG way toward getting some national retailers to set up shop there.

Edited September 15, 2022 by I miss RVA