East Bank – I-24 to the Cumberland/I-24 Overpass up to Jefferson – 338 Acres, Nissan Stadium, "Imagine East Bank"

[smeagolsfree]

I posted in another thread and I have no idea how we are talking about this in 2 threads now but IMO, Odessa has no hope of getting anything accomplished by stirring the pot and making impossible demands as she has clearly not done her homework as Craig has pointed out above.

Even at the State level she has zero chance of getting anything done…pipe dreams indeed! They have the opportunity as I said in my other post to be involved as a group in the discussion, but they choose not to be involved most of the time. Many times the poorest members of the community are reactionary instead of being proactive even when they know what is coming down the pike and they have folks like Odessa trying to wake them up, but most of the time they just don’t care, because other things are more important than stirring the pot.

People with political ambitions mostly talk the talk in order to get elected then are no longer interested in walking the the walk when the money starts to flow in to the bank account. Does not matter what side of the aisle you are on.

[smeagolsfree]

6 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

According the SMI, StandUP Nashville has not returned any calls to discuss the speedway. While I do think Odessa Kelly cares about Nashville's most vulnerable, sometimes they (Odessa Kelly) appear to be chasing publicity for her run at a congressional seat as opposed to truly making a deal. 

BINGO!  We will see what happens when the State redistricts the house seats too. May not turn out so well for her or Cooper. Too bad either way.

Also with the Titans they do not own the land, the Sports Authority owns the land. 

[nashvylle]

5 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Also with the Titans they do not own the land, the Sports Authority owns the land. 

Right but council will have to approve a new lease (I think) and SUN will ask council members to have a CBA as part of the lease renewal. 

[smeagolsfree]

Since this is Metro land they could get affordable housing included, but it will not be cheap as building cost are on the rise and if it is all affordable then it is a waste of land resources and would not work. It would have to be a mixed income project to work and if SUN wants all affordable then it would be a non starter. YOU cant always get what you want!

[nashvylle]

Yeah I think SUN wants 20% like NashvilleSC. 

[yontu2]

I appreciate the Nashville Urban Planet board for many reasons but there are two main issues that come up periodically that make me feel out of place:

1. people repeatedly posting that each proposed development should be taller (my own perspective is that quality design/development matters more and that there is a need for buildings of varying scales – not everything in/around downtown has to be aiming for as tall as possible or a new record height)

2. people bashing or expressing hostility toward anyone who might dare try to negotiate community benefits as part of development

[nashvylle]

38 minutes ago, yontu2 said:

I appreciate the Nashville Urban Planet board for many reasons but there are two main issues that come up periodically that make me feel out of place:

1. people repeatedly posting that each proposed development should be taller (my own perspective is that quality design/development matters more and that there is a need for buildings of varying scales – not everything in/around downtown has to be aiming for as tall as possible or a new record height)

2. people bashing or expressing hostility toward anyone who might dare try to negotiate community benefits as part of development

I am only speaking for myself, but-

1. I think if we had one tall building, breaking 700', the screaming for height would reduce dramatically. 
2. SUN isn't daring to try to negotiate a CBA. There are a lot of potential alternative motives within SUN, discussed throughout this forum. @Bos2Nash highlighted a lot of my frustrations as well. The East Bank right now is in planning stages of mainly infrastructure... It's not even close to being in CBA stage yet. So their demands right now appear, to me, to be more of a marketing event for Odessa Kelly and her congressional run. 

[Bos2Nash]

17 hours ago, downtownresident said:

A key concern, one that I also share: 

“The Planning Department — per their presentations — is currently proposing low- and mid-rise density on the East Bank along with ample open spaces. This is not an appropriate use of land in the urban core when we face a massive housing supply shortage that is driving up rents.”

I will put this in here as it specifically points to the presentation that is a direct result of community outreach. Personally I attended one of them and participated in such events and one specific person who was next to me (who was a local resident and could be categorized as a woman/minority group) specifically wanted low rise all along the highway because of the view to the city and the 4th of July fireworks. I believe Mark posted these images awhile back, but thse were direct input from the community. So if SUN is very concerned about "per their presentations" then SUN needs to get out there and start working with the communities rather than being a very reactionary group of people. And just an FYI, SUN is putting out mis-information by saying that these buildings are proposals, this was the Planning group gathering information to see want the community wants to see before they go back with the design professionals and make decisions.

Additionally, for those that want to see Planning's full report from the public workshops (which SUN and the entire coalition has access to) here is the link. They include all the comments from the different work stations towards the end. With this recent announcement it just seems to me that SUN is really just wanting to give people an official place to vent about their gripes rather than keeping them on social media. The development process doesn't have room for that. We need concise specific criticism of the built environment and 95% of the people that SUN is targeting just want to bitch. I agree that our process can change (which I am told that is SUN's ultimate goal), but to what extent?

[nashvylle]

The Tennessean allowing SUN (and for that matter, anyone) to have an entire article dedicated to their complaints, while not being an "opinion" piece, with no sections for counterpoints, is borderline fake news to me. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by nashvylle

[downtownresident]

22 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I am only speaking for myself, but-

1. I think if we had one tall building, breaking 700', the screaming for height would reduce dramatically. 
2. SUN isn't daring to try to negotiate a CBA. There are a lot of potential alternative motives within SUN, discussed throughout this forum. @Bos2Nash highlighted a lot of my frustrations as well. The East Bank right now is in planning stages of mainly infrastructure... It's not even close to being in CBA stage yet. So their demands right now appear, to me, to be more of a marketing event for Odessa Kelly and her congressional run. 

Agreed on both accounts, with a few additions. 
 

For point 1, I’d rather have shorter building with a better design rather than something that is tall for the sake of being tall. I actually prefer the updated 2nd and Peabody proposal verses the first one with the new tallest. However, this is a forum of development boosters, and a new tallest is always exciting. 
 

For Point #2, further evidence of this is SUN not returning contact with the speedway group despite holding unscientific polling about the project and getting their name out in the media. 
 

For further clarity, I have no problem with any group asking for a Community Benefits agreement with any large project. If the developer/entity wants to enter into an agreement, great! I do have a problem with it being a requirement for a large project, for economic development deals(as job creating companies don’t normally building housing), or for rezoning to go through. 
 

While metro does have control over the parking lots surrounding the Titans stadium, the rest of the East Bank is privately owned and should be rezoned to allow for redevelopment. SUN, other community groups, and members of the public have the ability to participate in the planning process. They recognize that a shortage of units is the cause of escalating housing costs, but the proposed solution of adding additional steps and slowing the process down will just exacerbate the situation. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by downtownresident

[Bos2Nash]

28 minutes ago, downtownresident said:

For further clarity, I have no problem with any group asking for a Community Benefits agreement with any large project. If the developer/entity wants to enter into an agreement, great! I do have a problem with it being a requirement for a large project, for economic development deals(as job creating companies don’t normally building housing), or for rezoning to go through. 

I wouldn't be against it being a requirement for a project to receive public funds (or bonds) or possibly even to go through the SP process (seeing as the SP process is all about the "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours"). Incentivizing a CBA on a completely private job could be one way to work around the state law on inclusionary zoning though. Boston's inclusionary zoning actually allows to defer their affordable housing to another site, but they have to commit to actually building and/or financing it. This deferral I believe has to be within a certain distance parameter of the original development so not to allow a developer to "beat the system" and just build affordable housing in a much less desirable location. 

I'll pose this hypothetical scenario. A private developer is going to build private residences overlooking the Cumberland just north of Woodland, they enter into a CBA for the district that includes a certain percentage of housing units to be affordable. In an effort to keep their pockets lined with wealthy investors (residential property buyers that is) they are allowed to defer those affordable units to the Dickerson Pike Corridor or the Trinity Lane corridor if they so choose. 

Another scenario that could potentially be what SUN is angling for is rather than having CBAs for individual developers there could potentially be one for the entire district (the East Bank is looking to have 3 districts). While I don't believe this would be legal as it would essentially be the city entering into such a CBA and thus creating a zoning overlay, it could be that the city promotes a "Master Developer" scenario (ie Market Street and the Gulch) in which the "Master Developer" enters into the CBA. If a master developer approach was used for each individual district the CBA requirement could be finely tuned to each district as it relates to the surrounding neighbors and existing neighbors. Once again though, we are a long way away from such a scenario even being contemplated.

[downtownresident]

1 minute ago, Bos2Nash said:

I wouldn't be against it being a requirement for a project to receive public funds (or bonds) or possibly even to go through the SP process (seeing as the SP process is all about the "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours"). Incentivizing a CBA on a completely private job could be one way to work around the state law on inclusionary zoning though. Boston's inclusionary zoning actually allows to defer their affordable housing to another site, but they have to commit to actually building and/or financing it. This deferral I believe has to be within a certain distance parameter of the original development so not to allow a developer to "beat the system" and just build affordable housing in a much less desirable location. 

I'll pose this hypothetical scenario. A private developer is going to build private residences overlooking the Cumberland just north of Woodland, they enter into a CBA for the district that includes a certain percentage of housing units to be affordable. In an effort to keep their pockets lined with wealthy investors (residential property buyers that is) they are allowed to defer those affordable units to the Dickerson Pike Corridor or the Trinity Lane corridor if they so choose. 

Another scenario that could potentially be what SUN is angling for is rather than having CBAs for individual developers there could potentially be one for the entire district (the East Bank is looking to have 3 districts). While I don't believe this would be legal as it would essentially be the city entering into such a CBA and thus creating a zoning overlay, it could be that the city promotes a "Master Developer" scenario (ie Market Street and the Gulch) in which the "Master Developer" enters into the CBA. If a master developer approach was used for each individual district the CBA requirement could be finely tuned to each district as it relates to the surrounding neighbors and existing neighbors. Once again though, we are a long way away from such a scenario even being contemplated.

Isn’t your hypothetical essentially what the developers leading the redevelopment of the Berkshire apartments in East Nashville proposing? Weren’t they going to replace the section 8 units with a new development in Madison? 

[Urbanman]

@smeagolsfree aren’t you the same person who posted this in the Beamon property thread “Just go to the Planning meeting FWIW and publicly berate them for being “STUPID”who ever they are for doing such a POS development. They will still have to get some approvals. Traffic studies and such.” Simply because you don’t like what they are currently proposing? To quote you again “too frickin bad” because property owners can do what they want with their land within the rules, right? But I guess sense you’re the leader of the Nashville UP “gang” only you are allowed to “beotch” about Nashville development you don’t like!

[smeagolsfree]

WE all have a right to beotch. That’s right not much we can do there, but the SUN group is demanding something that is not possible under state law. Wanting inclusionary housing in CBA’s for all agreements that could be negotiated? But they are not going to the East bank meetings and making their voices heard and spreading misinformation. If they want to change something then she needs to go input info, but from what I have read above they are not participating.

So in fact telling the guys to go to the meetings is the same thing I would tell SUN to do but they seem  to already have their minds made up. That’s why I said their are community meetings and public hearings to go to and if they don’t then they do not have any reason to complain and it too bad and on them.

As much as we didn’t like the City Lights folks going in and complaining they got results AT THE public hearing. That’s why there are public hearings and if you pi$$ and moan about something after the fact then it is too bad.

 

And to further comment about the Oracle deal, you can’t come in and change a deal after its in place, and no one had a say in that deal but the State and Metro and we got the best deal we could have gotten, but to tell Oracle after the fact they have to to this or that…..NOT! That’s what I was talking about.

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, downtownresident said:

Isn’t your hypothetical essentially what the developers leading the redevelopment of the Berkshire apartments in East Nashville proposing? Weren’t they going to replace the section 8 units with a new development in Madison? 

In a very informal way, yes. But is also exactly what the RiverChase Apartments are NOT doing.

Berkshire is also a little different because they are demolishing existing affordable housing to replace with market rate (no indication that they will include affordable units). My hypothetical is looking at new developments in general leaning towards development of open land. The idea is the same, but if a CBA were to be introduced on a development that would require the demolition of affordable units, I would want to see a 25% increase in affordable units built, so a 1 to 1.25 replacement ratio. That of course would not (and could not be zoning) but rather through the CBA. Developers still spend BILLIONS of dollars in areas where these types of requirements are legally required, so I see no reason why it couldn't happen here where it is merely incentivized.

[nashvylle]

https://twitter.com/benyarthur/status/1435678617221181440?s=20

[markhollin]

Titans' franchise value has risen 14% in the last year to $2.65 Billion (that $1 million x 2,650).  You would think with that kind of coin that the ownership would be able to pony-up several hundred million to make vast improvements on Nissan Stadium. 

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/09/08/titans-see-franchise-value-rise.html

[Rick Dalton]

Feels like the East Bank near Nissan should have a strip of bars. Why is that side of the river not utilized at all? Could be a reprieve from Broadway

[nashville born]

On 9/2/2021 at 1:06 PM, nashvylle said:

1. I think if we had one tall building, breaking 700', the screaming for height would reduce dramatically. 
 

Facts.

[tragenvol]

5 hours ago, markhollin said:

You would think with that kind of coin that the ownership would be able to pony-up several hundred million to make vast improvements on Nissan Stadium. 

Not when you're only football rich...as the story goes.  They're not in the same tax bracket with Mark Davis, but they don't have the spare change lying about to fund massive upgrades either.

[Mr_Bond]

57 minutes ago, tragenvol said:

Not when you're only football rich...as the story goes.  They're not in the same tax bracket with Mark Davis, but they don't have the spare change lying about to fund massive upgrades either.

Spot on.  It's the difference between having a high net worth and having high income.

[markhollin]

Study for a new East Bank north/south "spine street."  More info and survey here:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/EBMultimodal

 

[Skyscrapergeek]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:06 PM, nashvylle said:

1. I think if we had one tall building, breaking 700', the screaming for height would reduce dramatically. 

 

[WebberThomas4]

A new water/sewer availability permit was applied for last week  at 206 N 1st Street. The permit name is East Bank Hotel.

https://epermits.nashville.gov/#/permit/4039940

Edited October 6, 2021 by WebberThomas4

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, WebberThomas4 said:

A new water/sewer availability permit was applied for last week  at 206 N 1st Street. The permit name is East Bank Hotel.

https://epermits.nashville.gov/#/permit/4039940

I have been watching this one….on the map.