East Bank – I-24 to the Cumberland/I-24 Overpass up to Jefferson – 338 Acres, Nissan Stadium, "Imagine East Bank"

[smeagolsfree]

I have discussed this with Brett & Mark both and it may well be an expensive proposition. The reason these gas farms are on the river is that the Colonial pipeline runs right under the East bank northwest to the Nations and east to the airport and carries jet fuel to BNA.

I am unsure of the cost of relocating the gas farms somewhere else along the pipeline but it more than likely would not be cheap as there probably not a lot of alternatives as they put them on the river and next to the RR tracks as they have to have access to rail and barge along with the pipeline. With that being said the locations of moving them are limited. 

The way I understand this is that if the fuel comes in by pipeline, they have to have the ability to offload by rail, truck, and barge or vice versa.

The Problem With Pipelines: Colonial Pipeline And America's Fuel Transportation Networks (forbes.com)

The U.S. economy relies on ready access to huge volumes of crude oil, natural gas, propane, and refined products like gasoline, diesel and jet fuel that are delivered each day, mostly by pipeline but also using railroads, ships, barges and trucks.

[markhollin]

The massive surface lot east of Nissan Stadium will be one of the prime areas to be focused upon in the East Bank redevelopment.
 

[MagicPotato]

21 hours ago, markhollin said:

The massive surface lot east of Nissan Stadium will be one of the prime areas to be focused upon in the East Bank redevelopment.
 

Once the East Bank area is developed, I can't even imagine how much worst traffic on I-24 is going to become. 

[chris holman]

1 hour ago, MagicPotato said:

Once the East Bank area is developed, I can't even imagine how much worst traffic on I-24 is going to become. 

This is a majority  Concern and regardless to any development coming downtown will the city  Improve I 24. Over all  The Oracle development will bring 8000 +more people downtown alone. 

[bnacincy]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:58 AM, markhollin said:

The massive surface lot east of Nissan Stadium will be one of the prime areas to be focused upon in the East Bank redevelopment.
 

This parking lot serves as commuter parking for over a thousand cars during the week-if this disappears what happens next?

[BnaBreaker]

10 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

This parking lot serves as commuter parking for over a thousand cars during the week-if this disappears what happens next?

They find somewhere else to park?  

[markhollin]

27 minutes ago, bnacincy said:

This parking lot serves as commuter parking for over a thousand cars during the week-if this disappears what happens next?

The East Bank study will include lots of internal parking garages within under structures that will serve even more autos than the current set-up.

[nashville born]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:26 AM, MagicPotato said:

Once the East Bank area is developed, I can't even imagine how much worst traffic on I-24 is going to become. 

Widen it now.

And not this one-lane-in-each-direction stuff either.  That might be good for 1996 Nashville.  Last I checked, it's 2021.  IMO, when expanding, it might be good to start with at least a 15-20 year projection, especially for a city that's growing like the Music City.

[downtownresident]

38 minutes ago, nashville born said:

Widen it now.

And not this one-lane-in-each-direction stuff either.  That might be good for 1996 Nashville.  Last I checked, it's 2021.  IMO, when expanding, it might be good to start with at least a 15-20 year projection, especially for a city that's growing like the Music City.

The East Bank, and the DT loop in general need much more than a simple widening, all of the interchanges need to be rebuilt and re-designed. These 1950s and 1960s era interchanges just don’t cut it anymore. 

[Luvemtall]

2 hours ago, downtownresident said:

The East Bank, and the DT loop in general need much more than a simple widening, all of the interchanges need to be rebuilt and re-designed. These 1950s and 1960s era interchanges just don’t cut it anymore. 

THANK YOU!!!!! We all discussed this a few months back , and this was something I was trying to explain in my thoughts.  I was a professional driver for decades, driven in every state in lower 48 , in every type vehicle from cars to buses to tractor trailers. The interstates in this state are downright dangerous! They are inadequate and were outdated 20 years ago. This pay as you go approach simply doesn’t work. By the time funds are available the design and planning are already behind the growth. I just drove down to Tampa and back this weekend and Its still amazing how the roads in both Florida and Georgia are so advanced then here, and they still are a little behind. Even in areas like Lake City Fla, and Tifton Ga. New updated interchanges and awesome led lights that actually light up the interstate, lush landscaping in the medians. In the metro areas where interstates merge they have flyovers and dedicated H O V  and Express lanes separate from the though lanes. So what if there’s tolls, it’s cheaper then the gas your wasting sitting in hours long traffic. Come on Tennessee, get with it!! And the biggest change for the better.. get rid of all the damn rock outcrops ! Simply dangerous.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Luvemtall

[andywildman]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:29 AM, chris holman said:

This is a majority  Concern and regardless to any development coming downtown will the city  Improve I 24. Over all  The Oracle development will bring 8000 +more people downtown alone. 

We’re bringing a ton of jobs downtown. It’s critical to bring more housing downtown too. 

[MagicPotato]

2 hours ago, andywildman said:

We’re bringing a ton of jobs downtown. It’s critical to bring more housing downtown too. 

Not just housing, but affordable housing. 

7 hours ago, downtownresident said:

The East Bank, and the DT loop in general need much more than a simple widening, all of the interchanges need to be rebuilt and re-designed. These 1950s and 1960s era interchanges just don’t cut it anymore. 

If you call the inner and outer "loops" actual loops , more like half circles with spaghetti noodles attached to it.  

[Rockatansky]

21 hours ago, nashville born said:

Widen it now.

Are you familiar with induced demand? I'd much rather the money that would be spent on widening be used on time-competitive, high capacity mass transit operating in dedicated ROW.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Rockatansky
add.

[grilled_cheese]

4 hours ago, Rockatansky said:

Are you familiar with induced demand? I'd much rather the money that would be spent on widening be used on time-competitive, high capacity mass transit operating in dedicated ROW.

Meanwhile, the state is expanding i65 north of the city to 30 lanes in either direction so they can dump more kentuckians and exurbanites into our town AND the state goes out of it's way to block meaningful mass transit.

Induced demand does not apply to, for example, Nashville's downtown interstate core.  One of the biggest choke points is the 24/65 interchange on the north side of the east bank.  That needs to be expanded and there is already unused land there, no need to eminent domain any.

The Nissan Stadium parking should remain as that's where they will (should) build the next stadium.  Unless ya'll want to get Atlanta Braves'd and the next stadium goes to LEB-NUN or some crap.

[PruneTracy]

4 hours ago, Rockatansky said:

Are you familiar with induced demand? I'd much rather the money that would be spent on widening be used on time-competitive, high capacity mass transit operating in dedicated ROW.

You have to look at it as a function of throughput per unit width of ROW. How many people can I move through a corridor of a given width? What combination of transportation modes maximize that number?

Highway widening is still an increase in throughput, even if the congestion levels remain the same. If I add lanes to an Interstate then (setting aside congestion issues that ought to be managed) roughly 2,000 more people per lane per hour have the option to utilize it. Some of them may choose it over another route or mode they used previously, others may choose to use it as part of a trip that didn't exist before, but either way the implication is that it has provided them an improvement to their transportation needs or else they would keep doing what they were doing before it was widened.

The same goes for mass transit, if I set aside ROW for transit then I have to ask how many people are going to choose to use it as a function of the corridor width I'm dedicating to it. I mentioned before on here that one of the problems with selling the Amp was that the project didn't replace two lanes of vehicular traffic with a comparable alternative. Moving 1,600 passenger cars per hour per lane on West End Avenue (or any corridor) is the equivalent of running fully-loaded buses with headways in the range of two minutes in a dedicated lane, which comes nowhere close to either the projections for ridership or the planned headways for the service.

The point of induced demand either way is that the demand is not really induced by the transportation mode itself, that's secondary to the need to travel. If I build a 50-lane highway between two hamlets it's not going to magically fill up with vehicles any more than a high-speed rail link would magically fill up with passengers. Either option might eventually become used to the point of congestion if people and businesses were to move to the two hamlets to take advantage of the convenient link, but that's the whole point.

[nashville born]

6 hours ago, Rockatansky said:

Are you familiar with induced demand? I'd much rather the money that would be spent on widening be used on time-competitive, high capacity mass transit operating in dedicated ROW.

You'll get no argument against this from me.  To be clear, many in this community have seen multiple posts from me in favor of mass transit.  My comment starts from a seeming reality that Nashville will NOT approve mass transit.  So, with that being said....widen it.

[WebberThomas4]

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by WebberThomas4

[markhollin]

At a public review meeting on Tuesday night, the Metro Planning Dept. showed preliminary designs for public infrastructure including: an activated riverfront, multimodal boulevards, diversity of housing types, residential streets, neighborhood parks, green streets and resilient landscapes. 

Sketches show proposed ideas for a continuous bikeway, that provides an off-road trail for both cyclists and pedestrians that would connect with Nashville's Greenway plan. 

Additional continuous greenway trail systems were outlined that would run throughout the East Bank, and connect to the upcoming River North neighborhood and over toward Germantown and Downtown. 

"The greenway really can be used for commuting and transportation and not just for leisure activities," said Ana Grider, a planner at the Metro Planning department at Tuesday night's meeting. 

Plans for the greenway include creating neighborhood parks, as neighborhoods form on the East Bank. 

Another concept discussed at the meeting included improving cross-river connection points at the James Robertson Parkway and Woodland Street Bridge. 

While the department's future steps include setting housing goals for the East Bank, the concepts indicate creating dense, mixed-use and affordable housing developments. 

"We've heard questions about whether the planning department will ever support single-family uses on the East Bank. The answer's no," said Lucy Kempf, executive director of the department. "You will never see the planning department make that recommendation." 

Throughout the night, city planners asked for people's immediate feedback on the sketches, and often asked what was missing. Repeatedly, affordable housing came up.

Immediate next steps for city planners are to analyze tonight's and ongoing feedback, and refine drafts for open spaces and the mobility network, the East Bank's new streets, greenways and bikeways. 

The next update on the study likely won't come until early next year, said Richel Albright, a public information officer for the planning department. 

Aside from housing, further next steps the planning department has outlined for themselves include establishing flood protection and sustainability standards, exploring bridge and utility locations and reviewing development applications. 

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2021/12/01/city-planners-release-emerging-concepts-east-bank-developments/8796619002/

[markhollin]

An 85 slide summary of the Nov. 30th public meeting is available here:

https://www.nashville.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/113021-East-Bank-Study-Update-Presentation.pdf?ct=1638377340&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2021.12.02 NASH&utm_term=NASHtoday Subscribers - MASTER

Coverage at NBJ:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2021/12/02/east-bank-plans.html


There are lots of graphs and charts of public input so far.  Here are some of the highlights of renderings and diagrams:

[nashvylle]

YES!! 

[Bos2Nash]

Sorry for a very long post forthcoming!

Thanks for sharing the link to the presentation @markhollin. I actually went looking for it today because I had not received it via email yet.

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE BUILDING ARCHITECTURE IN THESE IMAGES.!

That is a very important aspect to remember when these images are shown. The whole point of the meeting was to give an update on the outcome of the summer workshop sessions as well as the infrastructure portion of the Study. Myself and @DJIIIboth attended the meeting (I was virtual) and DJ live tweeted during the event. 

Below are the image Mark shared above with some commentary from the meeting along with some additional photos from the presentation overall.

This maybe one of the most powerfull images in the whole presentation. Comparing a 1/2" square mile in downtown to the east bank. It is so sad how much surface parking takes up this valuable area.

Fomr the mobility survey that was recently completed these were the results for the Priorities of mobility on the East Bank. I am SO happy to see that new streets were dead last.

This one was interesting, because it highlighted ROW improvement or acquistion. I think this highlights that while PSC is being shown in the study area, they are not focusing on it at this time. This ROW area would impact several proposed (and some funded) projects.

While the planning department will not be a developer on the project, they will be setting the Land Use policies for the area. In the summer workshops, these were the three top vote getters for what participants would like to see. I do agree that I would like to see mid-rise and live-work, but low-rise would be a big mistake. I know I am preaching to the choir on the board, but this does highlight how the public interacts with these projects and how little folks actually know about city function, economics and and overall city growth. This is a big reason why resident comfort level is such a big element in the gentrficiation discussion.

The study team also asked folks to put monopoly money into buckets for programmable public space. These were the results.

Top 3 topics the public would like to see next after the multimodal survey. The affordable housing discussion will long be ongoing. I was a little frustrated with how many people were beating a dead horse with it. The planning team did a good job working their way around the question without coming right out and saying "we don't have the power to put affordable mandates on this land". I will also say CM Brett Withers (Brett and CM Sean Parker were both in attendance) did a GREAT job explaining that this one area of town cannot solve Nashville's affordable housing issue and pointed to the Cayce Homes project(s), the future Samaritan project at 5th and Shelby and the Skyliner on Dickerson (with Urban Housing Solutions) as examples of East Nashville having new solutions. Brett also highlighted the cost infrastructre to place residential/office/retail in area where those dont exist (ie the East Bank) is exponentially higher because of the upfront cost that is necessary to even get an area ready for developers to come in and propose. IMO it also pointed to how East Nashvile is shouldering quite a bit of the affordability of Nashville while other parts of the county could do better. On the other two topics, I do believe that what is being laid out currently is a great start for greenway, open space and environmental focus of the area.

They shared a new graphic that tried to encapsulate the "East Bank for All" mantra as well as resharing the graphic that was shared on the previous page of this thread. The do believe Planning has done a great job simplfying some of the major elements that will need to be included in the area for folks who otherwise don't fully understand the entire area (and to garner support for the future cost of things).

Here is the major conceptual framework of the infrastructure/public portion of the project.

The four districts will actually be hugely important to the overall success of the East Bank. This will allow the area to be divided into truly walkable neighborhoods and actually give the option of carless living (if executed by the street grid and the private developers). Being able to connect these areas with other adjacent communites will be huge and those connections will in large part be the biggest driver in the success of the East Bank. Now during the Q&A session one resident asked the question about why CM Withers and CM Parker were in attendance, but CM O'Connell was not even though the latter is expected to have his district expanded to the area. I thought it was a GREAT questions as the Planning group made a strong push to connect the East Bank back to East Nashville rather than Downtown. While I wholeheartedly agree with the question, I disagreed with the reasoning for it. The resident pointed out that the East Bank should have a very "East Nashville vibe" or feeling to it, rather than being an extension of Broadway of the CBD. I believe it needs to be a blend of both. CM Withers did a great job deflecting the district portion of the question with the logic of the CMs always work together along the boundaries of the districts so he does not see a problem with it. I disagree and I found CM Parker's noticable silence on the topic as acknowledgment of his frustration of the River North being added to District 19 as well. That being said, I think this graphic alone shows why it would be important for multiple CMs to be responsilble for the East Bank.

This was the first concept sketch we were shown during the meeting and we were asked in what was missing. To me the biggest is the non-separated bike lane along the street. I mentioned height in the question/answer, but as I think more and more having an area (maybe south of shelby or in the Main-Woodland Area) that is this height and density could create a wonderful district of brownstone living. There does not appear to be much mixed-use in the image either, but it does appear to be fairly equitable within the public realm.

Then the conceptual street grid was presented. Overall, I LOVE the connectiveness of it overall. Obviously it is stil VERY early and none of the alignments are final. I think this image alones opens the door to the possibilities that the East bank holds.

They showed several precedants of what the multi-modal spine could be modelled after (both of which were waaayyyy to car centric IMO) and then showed what the current 2nd Ave looked like and what it possibly could look like. For me personally, I think an ideal solution would be to exclude person cars from the spine road altogether and model it after the 16th Street Mall in Denver (3rd & 4th image). It could truly become an amazing corridor for the city and present endless opprotunities for the city as a whole. 

The bikeway concept is a reasonable start, but could go much further. Tying into the existing network will be important, but the new network should be much more robust than what is shown.  I'm not gonna rehash the sketch image because it does not do much for me.

The green space/public open space was an interesting topic of conversation. I like the of public open space, but honestly I don't really feel it does completely right by the riverfront. I like Cumberland Park and the park in front of the Stadium, but I believe some of the East Bank should look towards Chicago for inspiration of activation. I think some of the river needs actual structured activation like retail or restaurants or just closer structres overall. There area obvious challenges to this, but I believe that to do right by the great resource we have we need a diversity of activation along the river instead of all green space. Additionally, I believe we need more grren space inset into the street grid and connected to the multi-modal spine. They don't need to be massive, but we need pocket park type greenery that softens all the concrete and hardscape that will be along the street grid. One resident stood up during the Q&A and said the riverfront greenspace was too small and needs to go in 3 blocks worth. This would be too much, but I also see how she would be working towards a Central Park type idea. Lastly, Kem Hinton of (Tuck Hinton fame) stood up and spoke to the PSC metals site and submitted (or re-iterated the idea) of when the cleanup of the site occurs to keep digging and dig out a full harbor/marina. I got a little chuckle out of that one 

I do want to clarify that I love the idea of having a publicly accesible riverfront all along the study area, but I believe to attract the right developers, the riverfront should not ALL be green space.

The last concentrated area was concepts for pedestrian and bike access on bridges. While they are not anticipating building new bridges (boo, but understandable), they are looking at improving the bridges we currently have. To look at this they focused on the James Robertson and the Woodland Street bridges. Again, they re-iterated not to looked at the architecture of the buildings, but at the pedestrian/bike access. I am very encoruaged that they are looking at this topic and the references of adding cantilevered sidewalks/bikeways to the sides of the bridges to create a more safe, comfortable area for these modes to interact. I for one would like to see the center turn lane removed from the bridges and just extend the sidewalk into the car ROW. 

Lastly, we were presented with an overall sketch of the East Bank area. I would say it is a very encoruaging site to see what the study team is looking at. Please remember that they are trying to check many boxes and this is going to be a long study and overall process.

During the Q&A several topics were covered. I hit upon a couple items in the above but here are a few others:

• What agencies have been involved outside of the study group? How are they effecting the Study?
  • NDOT, TDOT, Titans, Army Core of Engineers have all been involved to this point. The Titans have a strong interest in the area and the panel represented them as being exceptional neighbors. TDOT and the highway interchanges are being discussed and the Planning group mentioned that one they are working towards is making sure the highway is not really used as a "cut through" to shoot from Shelby Street up to James Robertson. I take that as they would really like to see certain ramps and highway access reduced (which to me would be great in an urban core!)
  • I asked the question about extending the Downtown Code over to the East Bank and do away with land use zoning, but this question was not answered.
  • One gentleman made a great point about food deserts and how the East Bank could hypothetically hold two very solid grocery options. Planning reiterated that they will not be incharge of actually planning buiilding uses, but will be looking for developers to include options like this (urban target, urban Publix (capital view), calling on HG Hill?). My hope would be that these would be integrated stores and not parking lot centered stores which I feel this gentleman was looking for.
  • Speed of the streets and specifically the multi-modal corridor was brought up. The Planning group also did point out that their attention is towards people and multi-modal and on the list of priorities, cars are last! The street grid is not being developed to give more cut throughs to speeding cars, but rather creating neighborhoods. They are not at the level to identify speed of the corridors, but I would anticpate low speeds throughout.

[smeagolsfree]

I am glad you posted this Craig. I watched last night and there is just so much that the papers can cover. This is a lot more in depth and thanks for the time and effort you put into this!

I do think it is interesting that the concept of the East Bank imagery is based on past input sessions, I think. It is a combination of what the feedback was and that was a mixture of high-rise, mid-rise, and low-rise towers.

I believe there will be some type of mixture of what you see above as the end result, but it will take years for a build out. Please note that the Gasoline storage facility is not going anywhere.

There are issues with the spine street going past Main, because of RMR plus another pending development on the other side of the RR tracks that may derail the spine road, no pun intended.

[nashvylle]

It's great and encouraging to hear the Titans have been "exceptional" neighbors. Hopefully this East Bank Plan leads to some serious renovations to Nissan Stadium. 

[UrbanWes03]

This looks fantastic! I can’t wait to see how this plays out.

[andywildman]

I love that the Spring Street sharrows are considered “existing bike network” on the biking map.