Rebuilding Second Avenue

[BnaBreaker]

God what an absolute mess... but perhaps a silver lining after all is said and done, because these would have needed to be replaced sooner or later.  Plus perhaps this will be the catalyst for something which many of us have advocated for for quite awhile, including myself, which is to make that historic entertainment portion of 2nd Ave.  and Broadway a pedestrian only zone a la Beale St. and Bourbon St.  on 2nd Ave from Broadway to Church, and on Broadway from 1st to 5th.  Not to mention the dramatically increased security at the AT&T building.

Edited December 30, 2020 by BnaBreaker

[BnaBreaker]

Downtown Nashville Bombing Is One More Devastating Blow to Already-Struggling Restaurants and Bars

https://nashville.eater.com/2020/12/28/22201438/nashville-downtown-bombing-second-avenue-explosion-restaurants-bars-closed

"Dozens of area restaurants and hospitality folks — all reeling from their own 2020 challenges — are offering food for first responders and those impacted, as well as Wi-Fi access for those without, plus walk-in freezer space and more for impacted restaurants. Within hours of the blast, Sean Brock posted to his Instagram account that anyone in need of a meal could pick one up — no questions asked — at his long-awaited restaurant Audrey in East Nashville, in partnership with nonprofit Rethink Food. Ole Smoky Distillery/6th & Peabody is offering free meals from White Duck Taco Shop and Prince’s Hot Chicken throughout the weekend, while Nina Singto (Thai Esane), Trey Cioccia (Black Rabbit, Farm House), James Kerwin (Little Fib), and Kahlil Arnold (Arnold’s Country Kitchen) are providing meals to anyone in need. Arnold’s is offering free lunch all week for anyone displaced by the blast — or out-of-work hospitality industry workers (plus they, like many others, offer discounts to first responders year-round). Downtown’s Corner Pub is also serving free meals to first responders. And, just down the street, Puckett’s is taking donations and distributing meals, with excess funds being given to The District Nashville, a nonprofit dedicated to economic and community revitalization in downtown Nashville."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  The above article is well worth a read, but the quoted bit really stuck out to me and brought a tear to my eye.  It's stuff like this that make me SO PROUD to call Nashville my hometown.  This city really is like a big family.  Nashvillians have each other's backs and the city will get through this and every other challenge stronger than ever!

[donNdonelson2]

Petula Clark posted a note to Nashville today on Facebook expressing how saddened she is at the horrific damage to our city and that it included the use of her song, “Downtown.” She commented that she’d like to wrap her arms around us in a big hug and sends her love and wishes for the new year. Lots of kind and compassionate comments in response, mine included!

[smeagolsfree]

I really didnt know she was still alive. Very thoughtful of her.

[markhollin]

11 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Petula Clark posted a note to Nashville today on Facebook expressing how saddened she is at the horrific damage to our city and that it included the use of her song, “Downtown.” She commented that she’d like to wrap her arms around us in a big hug and sends her love and wishes for the new year. Lots of kind and compassionate comments in response, mine included!

Here's her full Facebook message:
 

[Baronakim]

Guys, don't dwell on doom and gloom here.   Sorry Bna, but your thought  "these would have needed to be replaced sooner or later."  IMO is way too pessimistic.    I just posted this on "I Remember Nashville When" website. 

 " Please Nashville, do not write off even the worst destruction on Second Avenue. If you look to the historic square in Columbia, Tennessee, several buildings in as bad a condition on the Square in Columbia have been rebuilt and are in use today . They are even older too, so don't think "old" necessarily makes them fragile. In the case of Second Avenue, the majority of these buildings were built for heavy warehousing uses...very heavy duty construction, not light framing at all. The DMV offices are in a building occupied by President Polk's law office before the Civil War and it had collapsed to the first floor with the exterior masonry wall half down in the street. If Columbia can do it, so can Nashville. The main structural elements in these building are the thick masonry walls between buildings. I doubt there is a lot of damage to them. Even the one that collapsed seems to have intact common walls. The 1st Avenue fronts seem ok except for windows for the most part. Wood floor beams and floor decking are secondary structure and generally their loss is fixable no matter how bad the pile of pickup stick debris looks. The main structural elements to replace are the street fronts of which only a few were totaled. They can be rebuilt. Blown out windows are not as big an issue. One of the hopeful aspects of rebuilding is that there is a tremendous opportunity to change the residential upper floors to maybe a hotel use like the Dream Hotel. It will certainally allow vast improvements to exiting upper fl;oors with new stairs and fire sprinklers. Rebuilding gives the opportunity to align floor levels in adjacent buildings allowing a chance to connect through those thick masonry walls making possible larger and more practical use of upper floors. Fewer exit stairs would be needed then. This was what was exactly was done to the buildings in Columbia which house offices (Maury County Tax Assessor for example)., The chopped up shops and upper floors can creatively be rebuilt and restored to reverse the decline of business on much of Second avenue in the past decade. The street can be restored to the vitality it had when it was first renovated decades ago. Don't give up hope on them yet! Photos. The first one is a facade added to a 1950s concrete framed furniture store to restore original fascade appearance of the 1870s building demolished on site. The second is now part of the Columbia Police department and was completely gutted inside and the front massively restored. I was one of the local architects that designed the rebuilds there ." 

 Maybe the Post or the Journal might want to investigate the many buildings of the same era that were saved in Columbia to help assure Nashvillians that Second Avenue can be saved.   I'll be happy to meet and give a walking tour down here.   Contact Randy  615-289-7707 or [email protected] if any of y'all want to talk about it.  I have a great deal of experience with this kind of work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Baronakim

[PruneTracy]

18 hours ago, thenorthchannel said:

Bob Mendes shared via twitter:

I would be willing to bet that much of that sewer system is combined as well, so it will have to be separated into sanitary and storm sewers. Like the VCPs, this is not something that would be limited only to Second Avenue; it affects the entire system.

[KJHburg]

A Savannah businessman owns one of the buildings on 2nd St where his sister lives here is the account.  (Strange about the use of buttermilk read about it)

Savannah businessman's building damaged at Nashville explosion site (savannahnow.com)

[Bos2Nash]

It is important to note too, that all of 2nd Ave from the pedestrian bridge up to Union Street is within the Historical Preservation OVerlay which will require the buildings to be rebuilt to those standards.

As Baronakim mentioned, while the fronts of the buildings facing 2nd Ave have heavy damage, the building fronts can be rebuilt. It really doesn't look like any of the party walls collapsed so there is hopefully a lot of structural integrity remaining in those walls. 

That being said, I do agree that this is a great opprotunity for Nashville to have a beautifcation process of downtown and create a pedestrian zone that really improves the city. I just spent the day in Boston on Monday and was walking through Downtown Crossing and it always amazes me the beauty and comfort that that area brings to myself and people moving through it. If we can create that type of atmosphere along the green highlighted areas, I think the businesses would actually thrive. 

My Proposal:

Close Lower Broadway (5th Ave to 1st Ave) to vehicle traffic - keep crossing traffic at 3rd and 4th

Close 2nd Ave from the pedestrian Bridge Overpass up to Church Street - Convert 2nd Ave from Demonbruen to the Pedestrian bridge to two way traffic. Do the same from Church Street up to Union Street.

Commerce terminates at 3rd Ave.

Emergency vehicles would still be able to access the pedestrian area zones in the event of emergency - this could be handled in a number of ways including retracting bollards. Delivery vehicles also could be allowed certain access.

I would love to close down 1st Ave from Broadway to Church as well so that we could do away with the "alley" appearance that it currently holds (not to mention how much this would improve the waterfront), but if this were to happen delivery vehicles would need explicit access rights to that stretch as well.

This would require a lot of coordination with TDOT as Broadway is State Road 70. This proposal would also move SR70 to KVB and connect back to Broadway via 8th Ave via the roundabout.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Bos2Nash
Vehicle crossing at 3rd and 4th, not 3rd and 5th

[MidTenn1]

Broadway is actually US 70, State Route (SR) 24. It could conceivably be routed from the west on Broadway, right at Rosa Parks to KVB BLVD Roundabout, then East on KVB to Lebanon Road to turn right (Southeast) where it currently exists.

[smeagolsfree]

Or we could just discontinue these stupid state routes all together! Very few people even take those roads as routes from point A to point B any longer.

Just route them up on the Interstate through downtown.  The reason people get on them is if they are localsor the Interstate is closed.. Everyone has some  sort of GPS device to get them where they are going these days.

[BnaBreaker]

9 hours ago, Baronakim said:

Guys, don't dwell on doom and gloom here.   Sorry Bna, but your thought  "these would have needed to be replaced sooner or later."  IMO is way too pessimistic.    I just posted this on "I Remember Nashville When" website. 

 " Please Nashville, do not write off even the worst destruction on Second Avenue. If you look to the historic square in Columbia, Tennessee, several buildings in as bad a condition on the Square in Columbia have been rebuilt and are in use today . They are even older too, so don't think "old" necessarily makes them fragile. In the case of Second Avenue, the majority of these buildings were built for heavy warehousing uses...very heavy duty construction, not light framing at all. The DMV offices are in a building occupied by President Polk's law office before the Civil War and it had collapsed to the first floor with the exterior masonry wall half down in the street. If Columbia can do it, so can Nashville. The main structural elements in these building are the thick masonry walls between buildings. I doubt there is a lot of damage to them. Even the one that collapsed seems to have intact common walls. The 1st Avenue fronts seem ok except for windows for the most part. Wood floor beams and floor decking are secondary structure and generally their loss is fixable no matter how bad the pile of pickup stick debris looks. The main structural elements to replace are the street fronts of which only a few were totaled. They can be rebuilt. Blown out windows are not as big an issue. One of the hopeful aspects of rebuilding is that there is a tremendous opportunity to change the residential upper floors to maybe a hotel use like the Dream Hotel. It will certainally allow vast improvements to exiting upper fl;oors with new stairs and fire sprinklers. Rebuilding gives the opportunity to align floor levels in adjacent buildings allowing a chance to connect through those thick masonry walls making possible larger and more practical use of upper floors. Fewer exit stairs would be needed then. This was what was exactly was done to the buildings in Columbia which house offices (Maury County Tax Assessor for example)., The chopped up shops and upper floors can creatively be rebuilt and restored to reverse the decline of business on much of Second avenue in the past decade. The street can be restored to the vitality it had when it was first renovated decades ago. Don't give up hope on them yet! Photos. The first one is a facade added to a 1950s concrete framed furniture store to restore original fascade appearance of the 1870s building demolished on site. The second is now part of the Columbia Police department and was completely gutted inside and the front massively restored. I was one of the local architects that designed the rebuilds there ." 

 Maybe the Post or the Journal might want to investigate the many buildings of the same era that were saved in Columbia to help assure Nashvillians that Second Avenue can be saved.   I'll be happy to meet and give a walking tour down here.   Contact Randy  615-289-7707 or [email protected] if any of y'all want to talk about it.  I have a great deal of experience with this kind of work.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, because I definitely do not want to be seen as advocating for the destruction of those gorgeous 2nd Avenue buildings!   I should have clarified in my initial post, but I was actually referring specifically to replacing the clay sewer pipes mentioned in the article posted right before my post.  I didn't realize that my post went to the top of the next page though so I can absolutely see why there was some confusion.  Sorry about that!  Let me be crystal clear... I am on exactly the same page as you and want the Second Avenue buildings to stay EXACTLY as they are,, because I agree, with a little TLC buildings can last centuries.  And even despite this horrible tragedy, there is no reason that our lovely ladies on Second can't be preserved for many generations to come!

[MLBrumby]

If managed properly (A big "if" when it comes to Metro and their bushy-browed mayor), the revival of Second (aka "Market" when I was at Vandy) could be a remarkable thing; quite possibly an extension of the LoBro entertainment district, but that's assuming the property owners and residents along that street would want that. Regardless, there needs to be a master plan drawn up quickly. And Metro needs to help ATT find a new, more secure home. Then they need to go to work getting investors to build new businesses at the ATT site and the burned out warehouse that has been a parking lot  (2nd and Church) for longer than I've ever been associated with Nashville.  The incentive needs to be that the city will allow a developer to build at least 7-stories, and up to 10 with set backs.  That would be the most valuable parcel (per s.f.) downtown. IMHO, blocking off to motorized traffic is a mixed bag. One of the great things about those streets is that people can drive up to the door.  I don't think parking should be allowed on the street. It should be enforced, especially during crowded hours. But certainly during the low-crowd periods during the middle of the night. Maybe block it off from traffic after (IDK... 11:00 pm or so).  Then a special permit may allow taxis, Uber/Lyft, et.al. and delivery trucks through there. 

Having said that, I have wondered over the past several years how safe LoBro/Second Avenue/Everywhere else with so much pedestrian traffic truly is.  That's the first thing Metro needs to do; ensure the public that it is so much safer now. There are crazies out there just looking for crimes to copy. for the next generation, 2nd Avenue and (I suppose) Broadway will always have a target to the crazies. 

[markhollin]

Some updated shots of damage courtesy of The Tennessean:

 

[MidTenn1]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

Some updated shots of damage courtesy of The Tennessean:

 

 

I think it's the building on the far right, but Tuck Hinton Architects has some great photos of the interior before the explosion.

[smeagolsfree]

Feds hand control over to Metro Wed. afternoon.

Metro Nashville announces next steps for downtown recovery - Nashville Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

Metro Nashville Codes Department said in a statement Thursday morning. Now, the division is working with structural engineers to assess the historic buildings’ damage according to FEMA guidelines. Inspections are expected to wrap up today, the statement said.

The department said it plans to expedite rehabilitation permits — and in some cases, demolition permits — for many of Second Avenue’s damaged properties.

Because of the area’s historical and aesthetic significance, the city’s codes and planning divisions, as well as the Metropolitan Historical Commission, will all have a hand in reviewing and approving rehabilitation or demolition permits

[bnacincy]

17 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

If managed properly (A big "if" when it comes to Metro and their bushy-browed mayor), the revival of Second (aka "Market" when I was at Vandy) could be a remarkable thing; quite possibly an extension of the LoBro entertainment district, but that's assuming the property owners and residents along that street would want that. Regardless, there needs to be a master plan drawn up quickly. And Metro needs to help ATT find a new, more secure home. Then they need to go to work getting investors to build new businesses at the ATT site and the burned out warehouse that has been a parking lot  (2nd and Church) for longer than I've ever been associated with Nashville.  The incentive needs to be that the city will allow a developer to build at least 7-stories, and up to 10 with set backs.  That would be the most valuable parcel (per s.f.) downtown. IMHO, blocking off to motorized traffic is a mixed bag. One of the great things about those streets is that people can drive up to the door.  I don't think parking should be allowed on the street. It should be enforced, especially during crowded hours. But certainly during the low-crowd periods during the middle of the night. Maybe block it off from traffic after (IDK... 11:00 pm or so).  Then a special permit may allow taxis, Uber/Lyft, et.al. and delivery trucks through there. 

Having said that, I have wondered over the past several years how safe LoBro/Second Avenue/Everywhere else with so much pedestrian traffic truly is.  That's the first thing Metro needs to do; ensure the public that it is so much safer now. There are crazies out there just looking for crimes to copy. for the next generation, 2nd Avenue and (I suppose) Broadway will always have a target to the crazies. 

Finish installing the bollards on Lower Broadway would be a nice start.

[markhollin]

David Creed, owner of 144 2nd Ave. North thinks it is possible to rebuild the area better than ever:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/12/31/second-ave-bombing-pilcher-building-david-creed.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_34&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s
 

[TheRaglander]

All you have to do is Google "5G attacks" and see many articles on 5G tower and structure attacks/threats.  Given this may become something of a norm, it would be dangerous and irresponsible to have that data center or centers like this near areas of high density.  AT&T should move this complex somewhere else and level that ridiculous building.  There is no need for something like that in the middle of a core business district.  

[NashRugger]

1 hour ago, TheRaglander said:

All you have to do is Google "5G attacks" and see many articles on 5G tower and structure attacks/threats.  Given this may become something of a norm, it would be dangerous and irresponsible to have that data center or centers like this near areas of high density.  AT&T should move this complex somewhere else and level that ridiculous building.  There is no need for something like that in the middle of a core business district.  

While this makes sense, there is no way to do this with every center in every city they're found without trillions of $$$ & many years to rewire to new centers.  It's almost completely unfeasible without companies likely jacking rates up sky high. they're not rolling that deep in dough to invest in something that is very minuscule in chances of happening.

Nashville alone would cost hundreds of millions to achieve and I just don't see it happening. They could perhaps do it in small phases, but would still take a very long time to achieve any sufficient risk mitigation.

Edited December 31, 2020 by NashRugger

[satalac]

3 hours ago, TheRaglander said:

All you have to do is Google "5G attacks" and see many articles on 5G tower and structure attacks/threats.  Given this may become something of a norm, it would be dangerous and irresponsible to have that data center or centers like this near areas of high density.  AT&T should move this complex somewhere else and level that ridiculous building.  There is no need for something like that in the middle of a core business district.  

It would be a lot cheaper to leave it alone and close off 2nd Ave to vehicle traffic. Would I prefer it elsewhere, of course, but the truth is that it would be way too expensive to relocate this, and as we know, money talks. 

[MLBrumby]

In this case, I'd be ALL IN for a public assistance to move to a location outside the CBD, to a location that doesn't endanger others. 

[NashRugger]

3 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

In this case, I'd be ALL IN for a public assistance to move to a location outside the CBD, to a location that doesn't endanger others. 

That makes no sense when it's it's such a minor chance to begin with, and even more so that even if the benefit to the populace at large. That's only if that minute probability actually were to happen, but the financial capital is something that does not make overall sense to the remainder of Davidson County and it dang sure isn't a viable option as tax revenue plummets off the earth after this year. 

Now, if every city & county that was tied to this facility were to help in said assistance, then it's more of a viable option, but good f'ing luck with that. 

[KJHburg]

Here is a good summary article about the disruptions the bombing caused.

Nashville bombing spotlights vulnerable voice, data networks | WRAL TechWire

almost every city has a telecommunications hub in its CBD including Manhattan.  Best option is to block the lane with concrete planters or even the entire street as some have suggested.  We have a  hub like this in uptown Charlotte as well.  It would be cheaper to fortify the construction and the streetscape similar to what is done at Federal courthouses across the country.  But I don't think it is feasible to move this site or any of the hundreds others to greener pastures so to speak.  

[MLBrumby]

58 minutes ago, NashRugger said:

That makes no sense when it's it's such a minor chance to begin with, and even more so that even if the benefit to the populace at large. That's only if that minute probability actually were to happen, but the financial capital is something that does not make overall sense to the remainder of Davidson County and it dang sure isn't a viable option as tax revenue plummets off the earth after this year. 

Now, if every city & county that was tied to this facility were to help in said assistance, then it's more of a viable option, but good f'ing luck with that. 

Wow! How do you really feel? And yet it actually just happened last week. Um, just sayin'. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by MLBrumby