Fairgrounds Speedway Racetrack expansion to 30,000 seats

[Bos2Nash]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:55 PM, Luvemtall said:

How do they sell restaurants and residential knowing what will be with the track.

This has actually been a pretty big concern for me even in the early stages of the stadium discussion. I understand that stadium owners are late to the game in the value of a mixed use development, but having apartments sandwiched between a 30,000 seat stadium and an active racetrack. I have zero sympathy for those residents because they will be moving into a hostile noise environment. Granted those two venues are not active everyday of the week, but it definitely is not the ideal place live in my mind. The bigger concern I have is how long would it take the residents to complain so much they try to shut down one venue or the other - my guess is they would go after the racetrack as racing would not fit the persona/lifestyle that many of these people live.

I think no matter what though restaurants will thrive. With the racetrack and the stadium they will make a killing on gameday/raceday and if they are good enough will attract people in on non-days. The benefit of residential is there is an everyday option for the restaurants as well.

[nashvylle]

34 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

This has actually been a pretty big concern for me even in the early stages of the stadium discussion. I understand that stadium owners are late to the game in the value of a mixed use development, but having apartments sandwiched between a 30,000 seat stadium and an active racetrack. I have zero sympathy for those residents because they will be moving into a hostile noise environment. Granted those two venues are not active everyday of the week, but it definitely is not the ideal place live in my mind. The bigger concern I have is how long would it take the residents to complain so much they try to shut down one venue or the other - my guess is they would go after the racetrack as racing would not fit the persona/lifestyle that many of these people live.

I think no matter what though restaurants will thrive. With the racetrack and the stadium they will make a killing on gameday/raceday and if they are good enough will attract people in on non-days. The benefit of residential is there is an everyday option for the restaurants as well.

There is sound attenuation methods (ala Embassy suites) where you use concrete superstructure as well as concrete partitions (instead of stick frame and sheetrock partitions). You can also do double layers of glass for the windows. Of course it will be more expensive though. 

I imagine the benefit to having affordable units is those will fill up despite the loud noises, but I imagine the racetrack will affect the market rate units.

[Bos2Nash]

19 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

There is sound attenuation methods (ala Embassy suites) where you use concrete superstructure as well as concrete partitions (instead of stick frame and sheetrock partitions). You can also do double layers of glass for the windows. Of course it will be more expensive though. 

Oh for sure! Based on the rendering of the apartment building though we are probably looking at a 5+1 structure with extra insulation in the walls. I am hoping for the best, but even at $80 million I will be a skeptic until we start to see the structure.

22 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I imagine the benefit to having affordable units is those will fill up despite the loud noises, but I imagine the racetrack will affect the market rate units.

Absolutely. Benefit of the desire to live here, the new buildings will fill up. I presume there will be some pretty nice amenities at this building to attract residents as well. I would just hate to hear complaints about noise and attempts to shut down venues based on their location.

[nashvylle]

I would also add that the architect could design certain things like the parking garages in locations to block the noise. 

[Rockatansky]

On 3/5/2021 at 4:04 PM, Luvemtall said:

there’s a beautiful racetrack with lots of open space and easy access with tons of parking just 20 minutes to the East.

Which track is this?

[Jamie Hall]

The Bristol group has already chosen a reputable company to handle the sound mitigation issues, so neighbors could actually hear less noise in the future than they did for past races (considering that the track really has zero sound mitigation tools currently). My hunch as a longtime NASCAR fan would be maybe 3-4 NASCAR events at the fairgrounds each year -- probably one Cup Series event, with the others being a mix of events for Xfinity Series, Truck Series, and/or ARCA. I'll be curious to see how much of their regular "local" racing remains on the schedule, since that's always been the bulk of the track's schedule.

I sympathize with neighbors who have to deal with the noise, but it seems like this new deal pretty much ensures that the track is here to stay for a while. And based on some of the other big projects being planned within 4-6 blocks from the fairgrounds, more development is inevitable. 

2 minutes ago, Rockatansky said:

Which track is this?

That's a reference to the Nashville Superspeedway in Wilson County -- it's a bigger track in a rural area that's schedule to host NASCAR events this year.

[Rockatansky]

2 minutes ago, Jamie Hall said:

That's a reference to the Nashville Superspeedway in Wilson County -- it's a bigger track in a rural area that's schedule to host NASCAR events this year.

That's more like 40 minutes, not 20.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Rockatansky
.

[nashvylle]

58 minutes ago, Jamie Hall said:

The Bristol group has already chosen a reputable company to handle the sound mitigation issues, so neighbors could actually hear less noise in the future than they did for past races (considering that the track really has zero sound mitigation tools currently).

Can you please share the sound mitigation company's name / what sound mitigation they utilize? Thanks 

[PruneTracy]

1 hour ago, Rockatansky said:

That's more like 40 minutes, not 20.

It's 20 Realtor minutes.

[BNAfan]

Here is one company referenced in an Autoweek article.  Boy, @JamieHall, I hope you are right about the potential for noise reduction.  

https://www.soundfighter.com

Here is the original article. 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/nascar/a35786152/nashville-council-wants-more-community-input-before-approving-nascar/

[titanhog]

Btw…here’s the current 2021 schedule at the Fairgrounds raceway.

Nashville Fairgrounds Speedway 2021 Schedule

Schedule is tentative and subject to change without notice. 

 

• Saturday, April 10th – Open Practice & Media Day

• Friday, April 16th – Open Practice
• Saturday, April 17th – 64th Season of Asphalt Racing Opening Night – Pro Late Model 100 | TICKETS
  • Pro Late Models, Super Trucks, Limited Late Models, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero

• Friday, May 7th – Open Practice
• Saturday, May 8th – ARCA Menards Series East Music City 200 & North/South Late Model Challenge | TICKETS
  • ARCA Menards Series East, (CRA/SSS/CARS) Super Late Models 100, (CRA/NFS) Pro Late Models 100

• Friday, May 28th – Open Practice
• Saturday, May 29th – Victory Custom Trailers CRA Junoir Late Models Series & Pro Late Model 100
  • Pro Late Models, Super Trucks, Limited Late Models, CRA Jr. Late Models, Pure Stocks, Legends, Bandolero, Baby Grands

• Friday, June 11 – Open Practice
• Saturday, June 12 – Modifieds of Mayhem Tour
  • Modifieds, Super Trucks, Limited Late Models, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero

• Friday, July 16 – Local Racing | TICKETS
  • Limited Late Models, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero
• Saturday, July 17 – SRX Racing Series & JEGS/CRA All-Stars Tour Masters of the Pros 150 | TICKETS
  • Superstar Racing Experience, (CRA/NFS) Pro Late Models

• Saturday, August 7 – King of the Wings Sprint Car Series
  • Sprint Cars, Midgets, Pro Late Models

• Friday, September 17 – Tennessee Fair Race Night #1
  • Pro Late Models, Limited Late Models, Pure Stocks, Legends, Bandolero, Baby Grands
• Saturday, September 18 – Tennessee Fair Race Night #2
  • Pro Late Models, Super Trucks, Street Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero

• Friday, October 8 – Open Practice
• Saturday, October 9 – Super Truck Championship & Pro Late Model 100
  • Pro Late Models, Super Trucks, Limited Late Models, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero

• Thursday, October 28 – All American 400 Race Weekend Welcome Party & Hauler Parking
• Friday, October 29 – Championship Friday | TICKETS
  • Limited Late Models, Street Stocks, Pure Stocks, Front Runners, Legends, Bandolero
• Saturday, October 30 – All American Saturday | TICKETS
  • Super Late Models, Pro Late Models, CRA Street Stock Series, Vores Compact Touring Series
• Sunday, October 31 – All American 400 | TICKETS
  • (CRA/SSS/CARS/ARCA) Super Late Models & (CRA/NFS) Pro Late Models

SLM – Super Late Models, PLM – Pro Late Models, ST – Super Trucks, LLM – Limited Late Models, SS – Street Stocks, PS – Pure Stocks, FR – Front Runners, LG – Legends, BAN – Bandolero, CRA – Champion Racing Association, SSS – Southern Super Series, CARS – CARS Super Late Model Tour, NFS – Nashville Fairgrounds Speedway

[MLBrumby]

Um, I don't claim to understand the appeal of NASCAR, but I realize there's BIG money involved.   As such, I guess I have a passing curiosity (interest?) in the 'sport'.  

So I'm sort of surprised that this lawyer from Chatty is the first to post this from the NP...  Nashville Superspeedway selling at capacity for NASCAR’s Ally 400 | Nashville Post   Hat tip to Michael Gallagher for his piece in the Post...  The Superspeedway is expected to sell at 40,000 capacity and will work in accordance with local and state health officials. It will be the first NASCAR Cup Series race in Nashville in 37 years.

And I have to suppress the urge to say, "No duh! Why did you guys abandon Nashvegas when you did?"  Wow! I could be paid thousands (lol) as a consultant to NASCAR. 

[titanhog]

39 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Um, I don't claim to understand the appeal of NASCAR, but I realize there's BIG money involved.   As such, I guess I have a passing curiosity (interest?) in the 'sport'.  

So I'm sort of surprised that this lawyer from Chatty is the first to post this from the NP...  Nashville Superspeedway selling at capacity for NASCAR’s Ally 400 | Nashville Post   Hat tip to Michael Gallagher for his piece in the Post...  The Superspeedway is expected to sell at 40,000 capacity and will work in accordance with local and state health officials. It will be the first NASCAR Cup Series race in Nashville in 37 years.

And I have to suppress the urge to say, "No duh! Why did you guys abandon Nashvegas when you did?"  Wow! I could be paid thousands (lol) as a consultant to NASCAR. 

Pretty sure it was Nashville’s fault they left…but I could be wrong.  I’m thinking we let them slip away instead of doing whatever it would take to keep them here…and it was also just a few short years before the sport blew up and everyone wanted a track.  Then NASCAR got too big for its britches and tried placing a track in every possible section of the country to grow the sport while kinda forgetting the southern / east coast hard core fans who made it a sport in the first place.

I’ve never cared that much for racing…but if they do go back to the more “scratch and dent” short tracks with more strategy involved instead of cars racing at 200mph until there’s a wreck with cars flying through the air…it will improve the sport.  Also…make it less “pretty boy” and more gritty.

[titanhog]

Residents are going to try and fight the upgrades to the track.  Sorry…but residents in that area who moved in and suddenly discovered there was a racetrack that makes noise on occasions are kinda out of luck.  That track has been there longer than you’ve been on earth…with racing every single year.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/25/residents-demand-input-nashville-speedway-expansion/4674518001/

Marilyn Warren made the decision to move back to Nashville to build her "forever home" nearly a decade ago. She quickly fell for the "artsy fartsy" charm of Wedgewood-Houston. 

She didn't realize that years later, she wouldn't be able to enjoy a tall glass of iced tea  from her deck.

"The noise from the racing is so loud it'll drive you right back in," Warren told The Tennessean this week. 

Her home sits on a hill that faces the Nashville's Fairgrounds Speedway just a few blocks away. While a row of trees may block the view, it does "absolutely nothing," she said, to reduce the noise  

Warren is clear. She doesn't want racing at the fairgrounds. 

Sorry lady…even if NASCAR doesn’t happen, there will be racing at the fairgrounds.

[nashvylle]

@titanhog do you mind paraphrasing the rest of the article? Thanks 

[Flatrock]

5 hours ago, titanhog said:

She didn't realize that years later, she wouldn't be able to enjoy a tall glass of iced tea  from her deck.

LOL!!! So, NIMBYISM doesn't really apply here since the track AND the racing - were already in her back yard, for like forever. So, a new word? 'IAIMBYBIDWIAFO-ISM'. 'It's already in my back yard but I don't want it - and F.O'.  I'll let you guess what the last 2 letters stand for.  Trying to understand the entitled mindset required to fight something enjoyed by tens of thousands a few times/year over having to drink your iced tea inside is breaking my brain.

[downtownresident]

Just now, Flatrock said:

LOL!!! So, NIMBYISM doesn't really apply here since the track AND the racing - were already in her back yard, for like forever. So, a new word? 'IAIMBYBIDWIAFO-ISM'. 'It's already in my back yard but I don't want it - and F.O'.  I'll let you guess what the last 2 letters stand for.  Trying to understand the entitled mindset required to fight something enjoyed by tens of thousands a few times/year over having to drink your iced tea inside is breaking my brain.

Not to mention from something just a few blocks away that had already been there for over 80 years. Racing is protected by the Charter, it’s not going anywhere. Might as wel negotiate the best possible deal with a competent operator who will bring scheduling stability and noise mitigation enhancements. 

[smeagolsfree]

I think it is called dumbassism!

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

@titanhog do you mind paraphrasing the rest of the article? Thanks 

 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/25/residents-demand-input-nashville-speedway-expansion/4674518001/

Marilyn Warren made the decision to move back to Nashville to build her "forever home" nearly a decade ago. She quickly fell for the "artsy fartsy" charm of Wedgewood-Houston. 

She didn't realize that years later, she wouldn't be able to enjoy a tall glass of iced tea  from her deck.

"The noise from the racing is so loud it'll drive you right back in," Warren told The Tennessean this week. 

Her home sits on a hill that faces the Nashville's Fairgrounds Speedway just a few blocks away. While a row of trees may block the view, it does "absolutely nothing," she said, to reduce the noise  

Warren is clear. She doesn't want racing at the fairgrounds. 

Mayor John Cooper and Bristol Motor Speedway announced earlier this month they signed a letter of intent to lease and renovate the city's historic short track to lure NASCAR back to Nashville. 

The feedback on racing at the fairgrounds has been mixed over the years. Racing fans who feel it's a part of the city's identity are celebrating Metro's decision to reinvest in the track. But residents in surrounding neighborhoods who have grown frustrated by inconsistent noise mitigation and track curfews over the years worry how an expansion will further affect their livelihoods. 

 

Either way, the deal underway is a drastic change from 2011 when the fate of the fairgrounds was uncertain after unstable operations plagued the Nashville Speedway for decades. 

The letter of intent states an agreement will be in place by July 31 or either party can walk away. The administration, pushing the aggressive timeline, says any delay would mean losing a chance to go into a race season "as early as everybody would like."

Cooper hopes a NASCAR race can take place at the site next year — the same year Nashville SC is set to play at their new stadium. 

"Things are going a little too fast," Warren said. "I think the neighborhood ought have some say in it." 

'Don't we count?'

It's what a grassroots campaign, made up of residents who are calling themselves NOTE — Neighbors Opposing Track Expansion — are hoping to achieve.

The group held its first meeting Wednesday to begin outlining plans for community outreach. 

 

Interest has grown significantly since the administration and Bristol inked an initial deal, according to Heidi Basgall Favorite, one of the organizers. 

"We have serious concerns about the lack of importance placed on community engagement," she said. 

Without that due diligence, Favorite questions how Cooper campaigned as a "neighborhoods mayor" who would put taxpayers ahead of development, not the other way around. 

"This will greatly impact in a negative way the lives of thousands of people," Favorite said. "Don't we count?"

RELATED:Mayor John Cooper strikes deal to bring NASCAR back to Fairgrounds Speedway

The longtime Wedgewood-Houston resident has pushed for accountability at the speedway as a member of the Fair Board's neighborhood advisory impact committee.  

The group's goal isn't to get rid of existing local racing, Favorite said. Instead, it's to ensure residential input isn't swept aside as they fear officials will zero in on what they say will be a "significant money-making operation."

The administration and Bristol have previously said public input would be incorporated as talks continue. A joint news release earlier this month outlined noise mitigation as an integral part of track improvements. But so far it is not included in the language of terms and conditions. 

NOTE and as well as fair board commissioners are calling on both parties to make a commitment to limits on the number of race events and track rentals, noise mitigation and a curfew.  There's also a push for a financial guarantee from Bristol, so the city won't be on the hook if future revenue comes up short, similar to what Cooper negotiated with Nashville SC last year. 

Favorite said she would expect the city's outreach to the community be a year-long process itself. 

RELATED:Fair board, public urge more community engagement on deal to bring NASCAR to fairgrounds

MORE:Fairgrounds officials, council member to mayor: Don't sacrifice Fair Park to make way for expanded speedway

Officials say Nashville has an obligation to maintain racing at the fairgrounds. With Bristol, there will be schedule certainty. The renovated speedway will incorporate sound considerations while modernizing the track for driver safety and satisfaction, facility efficiency and for a better fan experience overall.

Bristol's Executive Vice President Jerry Caldwell said the company would bring the same type of consistency and predictability to Nashville as they have to eight other tracks they operate that host NASCAR races. 

"We pride ourselves on being good neighbors and making sure that we bring a positive impact to the community," Caldwell said. 

The administration said negotiations are underway when asked for comment for more details about the project's financing. Cooper spokesperson Andrea Fanta deferred to the Fair Board regarding community input sessions. 

Priority on better deal, not timeline

Fairgrounds Executive Director Laura Womack said a draft schedule is under review to hold community input sessions and will be discussed at the April 13 board meeting. 

"This is really important to our neighbors and race fans," she told The Tennessean. 

With many steps ahead, the letter of intent is just the the start to those conversations, she said. 

A "groundwork for negotiation," is how Council member Colby Sledge described it a recent newsletter to his constituents. 

As the district's council representative, he said he's asking for community feedback. 

"That's what will drive my thoughts," Sledge said. "My priority is the impacts."

 

The board will attempt to work within the timeline outlined by Cooper and Bristol but the priority will be ensuring any final deal includes neighborhood and citywide feedback, fair board chair Erin McAnally said. 

"My hope is that all the stakeholders, everyone involved in this, would stand with us in prioritizing the right deal opposed to getting it done to meet the timeline."

It could be akin to how Cooper slowed the MLS stadium project to negotiate a better deal, she said.

"If that's what happens, it's what happens. The deal needs to be right," McAnally said. "Racing fans are really excited about this possibility. But it's really important to address the issues first." 

Good deal shouldn't sacrifice neighborhoods

Todd Hartley, a Woodcrest resident just southeast of the speedway, is supportive of a deal to improve the track. 

"I just think you don't want to take the cake out of the oven so soon," he said. "Make sure you get a good deal."

Hartley serves on the Neighborhood Impact Advisory Committee for the fair board. Noise is a top concern where he lives in Woodcrest. Traffic from the fairgrounds, he said, was a bigger issue when he previously lived in Wedgewood-Houston. 

In recent messages swapped with other nearby neighborhood groups, there's been interest in a cap for high impact events at the fairgrounds as part of the agreement. 

With a lot of new uses planned to happen at the site, Hartley said residents don't want to see a every day with an event. 

"Let's make the Speedway look good, take care of neighborhood impacts and look at the overall number of events," he said.

Even if a deal is reached by the summer, Hartley is skeptical the site could be prepared to host such an event by next year. 

"So let's get additional time to get our ducks in a row," he said. "If you can't do a deal that makes sense dollars and cents wise without sacrificing one of Nashville's neighborhoods, then that's a deal you shouldn't make."

"We know Mayor Cooper can do good deals," he said. "I think he's up to the challenge."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luvemtall]

Just wait 10 years ...... when all vehicles are electric and internal combustion engines are a thing of the past! The Big Three already committed to full electric by 2035, then there will be no noise from loud motors. 

[titanhog]

3 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

Just wait 10 years ...... when all vehicles are electric and internal combustion engines are a thing of the past! The Big Three already committed to full electric by 2035, then there will be no noise from loud motors. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with auto-racing in the long run.  It’s hard to imagine racing in electric cars.  “And they’re coming around the final turn…you can hear a pin drop as the crowd holds its collective breath…” 

[Luvemtall]

13 minutes ago, titanhog said:

It will be interesting to see what happens with auto-racing in the long run.  It’s hard to imagine racing in electric cars.  “And they’re coming around the final turn…you can hear a pin drop as the crowd holds its collective breath…” 

That’s funny stuff^^^^
 

[Nash_12South]

I can have zero sympathy for the folks living near the track, but still think the track should move. Times change. PSC Metals has been on their river site for a seeming eternity. Does that mean no one gets to think it should move and folks wanting it to go away are dumb?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Nash_12South

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, titanhog said:

It will be interesting to see what happens with auto-racing in the long run.  It’s hard to imagine racing in electric cars.  “And they’re coming around the final turn…you can hear a pin drop as the crowd holds its collective breath…” 

I give you the Formula E racing series haha. If anyone would like a local idea of electric racing I would encourage folks to check out Music City Indoor Karting on Davidson. 

I will say though, Stock Car Racing is slow to integrate new technologies. They didnt replace traditional carbuerators with new electronic fuel injection until 2012!! For a minor history lesson electronic fuel injection was introduced into production vehicles like Toyota and Nissan in the 70's with carbuerated engines being discontinued in the mid to late 80's. I wouldn't count on an immediate change to electric stock cars. Based on the fuel injection timeline we could realistcally think about electric stock cars by about 2050.

[MLBrumby]

The future of all electric NASCAR racing...