New Aquarium Proposal

[Cookin_peacocks]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:06 PM, Raildude's dad said:

An "world class" aquarium in GR is dumb, An aquarium for John Ball Zoo in Muskegon is even dumber. We took our kids to the Shedd Aquarium once. We didn't go a 2nd time. Once was enough.

Man, aren't you a joy.

 

I definitely see a need for an aquarium. I think it would help turn GR into a weekend destination for families even more so. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Cookin_peacocks

[GRDadof3]

13 hours ago, WMrapids said:

Should these be merged?

I merged them. Not sure on what to title it... 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I merged them. Not sure on what to title it... 

“new aquarium maybe somewhere in the Grand Rapids or Muskegon area (or not)”?

LOL

Joe

[cstonesparty]

Lots of interesting information in here.  Feels slightly rose-colored-glasses, but maybe not...

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/hospitality-tourism/west-michigan-aquarium-could-drive-billions-into-economy-draw-visitors-nationally-study-finds/

 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, cstonesparty said:

Lots of interesting information in here.  Feels slightly rose-colored-glasses, but maybe not...

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/hospitality-tourism/west-michigan-aquarium-could-drive-billions-into-economy-draw-visitors-nationally-study-finds/

 

It's interesting. I'm a big fan of aquariums and attractions in general. But with $300-$400m, there are so many other projects I'd like to see move forward before something like this. A top notch park next to the Amphitheater (with pedestrian bridge over the river), the park they are considered vacating division and building up the hill. All of the pocket parks surrounding the river. A convention center hotel. Adding on to Van Andel (LOL, I'm sure this ship has sailed but I'm still listing it). Things that would benefit the community, which then makes the area more attractive to people / business, etc. 

I'm sure I would still nerd out if they showed renderings and plans, but this is not in my top 10.

Joe

[MJLO]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

It's interesting. I'm a big fan of aquariums and attractions in general. But with $300-$400m, there are so many other projects I'd like to see move forward before something like this. A top notch park next to the Amphitheater (with pedestrian bridge over the river), the park they are considered vacating division and building up the hill. All of the pocket parks surrounding the river. A convention center hotel. Adding on to Van Andel (LOL, I'm sure this ship has sailed but I'm still listing it). Things that would benefit the community, which then makes the area more attractive to people / business, etc. 

I'm sure I would still nerd out if they showed renderings and plans, but this is not in my top 10.

Joe

Agreed.  I’d love to see them put money towards converting BRT to LRT.  Or something otherwise ambitious that will make the area more marketable to attracting 21st century industry and residents. 

[walker]

2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

It's interesting. I'm a big fan of aquariums and attractions in general. But with $300-$400m, there are so many other projects I'd like to see move forward before something like this. A top notch park next to the Amphitheater (with pedestrian bridge over the river), the park they are considered vacating division and building up the hill. All of the pocket parks surrounding the river. A convention center hotel. Adding on to Van Andel (LOL, I'm sure this ship has sailed but I'm still listing it). Things that would benefit the community, which then makes the area more attractive to people / business, etc. 

I'm sure I would still nerd out if they showed renderings and plans, but this is not in my top 10.

Joe

Couldn't agree more Joe.

So, what this grouchy old man got out of the article was that I guess the main mission of this aquarium would not be to provide educational or even entertainment value but instead it’s to drive economic activity.

If that’s the case then I think that there are a lot of other ways to invest 300 to 400 million dollars that might have a better return on investment.  Maybe not as great a return as these consultants forecast for an aquarium but has a consultant forecast ever been anywhere near accurate even after discounting their usual dubious hard to prove multiplier effect calculations.

The Jerry Ford Museum according to consultants when that was proposed was going to create two thousand jobs.

Not the same situation but this old clip comes to mind:

SIMPSONS MONORAIL
 

Edited July 25, 2023 by walker

[Jonesey]

Seven to ten years down the line?  That makes me very doubtful it will happen.  Why do they keep wanting to put it in Muskegon?  That's a DeVos thing right?  I'm not hating on skee-town, but GR would be able to support this much better (hotels, restaurants, etc).  Yeah, aquariums are cool (better than zoos) but are people really going to come to W. MI just to go to the aquarium?  I feel like when people do touristy trips to Chicago it's the museums, downtown, navy pier AND the Shedd.  It would certainly add to our list of things to do.

If anywhere, put it on the river and make a portion of it so you can see into the river.  And downtown too, NOT millennium park, it would cost a couple hundred million just to update all the infrastructure leading out there because it's in horrible shape.  I would also hate to see the meadows paved over with asphalt.

[Zads]

Personally very excited about this idea. I get the arguments for saying this money could be better spent elsewhere, but if it's private money and not public money, then really there's no argument. The company can do as it pleases. I would expect this to be scaled back a bit, but then again the amphitheater really surprised me size-wise. I would hope for this to be built on the river for the views and access, maybe off of Butterworth and Wealthy, the empty land over there. Or if they can fit it, next to Market/Fulton but that might be too small of a site.

[Jonesey]

5 minutes ago, Zads said:

Personally very excited about this idea. I get the arguments for saying this money could be better spent elsewhere, but if it's private money and not public money, then really there's no argument. The company can do as it pleases. I would expect this to be scaled back a bit, but then again the amphitheater really surprised me size-wise. I would hope for this to be built on the river for the views and access, maybe off of Butterworth and Wealthy, the empty land over there. Or if they can fit it, next to Market/Fulton but that might be too small of a site.

If you're referring to the land between Wealthy/Butterworth and the river, that's a capped landfill that will probably never get developed, unfortunately.  Fulton/Market or on the southern part of the amphitheater site would be good, looks like this would be 1/8th the size of the Shedd

[joeDowntown]

3 hours ago, Zads said:

Personally very excited about this idea. I get the arguments for saying this money could be better spent elsewhere, but if it's private money and not public money, then really there's no argument. The company can do as it pleases. I would expect this to be scaled back a bit, but then again the amphitheater really surprised me size-wise. I would hope for this to be built on the river for the views and access, maybe off of Butterworth and Wealthy, the empty land over there. Or if they can fit it, next to Market/Fulton but that might be too small of a site.

It’s never (all) private money.  Like I said, if they announced an aquarium downtown tomorrow, I would jump in the bandwagon. But I still think there are many other projects that would have more of an impact on the population than an aquarium.

Wish they could do something with the butterworth site, but it’ll be lightly used for a long, long time. I still think solar, or soccer fields would be best for this site with the inability to build anything on the site of the old dump.

Joe

[Allison Slater]

Comparing it with other projects that could be done in Grand Rapids, I suppose there there could be better projects. But if they're targeting this for West Michigan, and looking at Muskegon as a location.. West Michigan is more than just Grand Rapids. Something like this would probably be huge for Muskegon as it slowly transforms from a rust belt to a tourism focus, and can help drive demand in the future for regional transit connections between the big three cities.

[egrguy]

Would they put this on the ballot like they did with the zoo (proposed move to the current FMG site?). 

Seems like public funding would be a tough sell especially if they wanted a bond proposal in Kent county but it's built in Muskegon county. I'm certainly way ahead of myself.

A $300-400m cost today is only going to cost 20-30% more if they follow even the most optimistic time line of starting in 3 years.

This just seems so far in the future and so expensive to get truly excited about.

[Khorasaurus1]

17 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Wish they could do something with the butterworth site, but it’ll be lightly used for a long, long time. I still think solar, or soccer fields would be best for this site with the inability to build anything on the site of the old dump.

 

I don't really understanding why there aren't solar panels on the butterworth dump. It seems like that should have happened 15 years ago. 

[joeDowntown]

They've been trying for about fifteen. Someone had engages with the city and then vanished into thin air. I believe they are pretty far along in the process with another company to put panels on site!

Joe

 

[Jonesey]

If not solar for the dump they should do a multi field development.  I know this was suggested a long time ago.  There is a lot of money in traveling leagues and would be awesome with it's proximity to downtown.  I would think the EPA would poo poo it,   I thought I heard the cap was five feet thick?

[joeDowntown]

6 hours ago, Jonesey said:

If not solar for the dump they should do a multi field development.  I know this was suggested a long time ago.  There is a lot of money in traveling leagues and would be awesome with it's proximity to downtown.  I would think the EPA would poo poo it,   I thought I heard the cap was five feet thick?

I read an article about other cities that put fields on superfund sites. Seems like a smart way to bring it back to usable space. The only issue is bathrooms, fences, etc have to be carefully handled. 

there’s another superfund site on the east belt line (north or 4 mile) that I thought would be ideal for 6-8 soccer fields (Grand Rapids doesn’t have enough multi field sites). 

Joe

[Jonesey]

19 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I read an article about other cities that put fields on superfund sites. Seems like a smart way to bring it back to usable space. The only issue is bathrooms, fences, etc have to be carefully handled. 

there’s another superfund site on the east belt line (north or 4 mile) that I thought would be ideal for 6-8 soccer fields (Grand Rapids doesn’t have enough multi field sites). 

Joe

Yeah that dump would be great too, I wonder if that one is capped as well, I don't believe it is.  That area on 10 mile between the Meijer sportsplex and the Merrell trailhead parking in Rockford (technically Plainfield township) is also an old dump.  It would be a no brainer to expand the sportsplex, it brings in a ton of tourist dollars to the area.

[WMrapids]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:00 PM, walker said:

 but has a consultant forecast ever been anywhere near accurate even after discounting their usual dubious hard to prove multiplier effect calculations.

The first thing that comes to mind with this was the forecast for the Pyramid project. Now those were some numbers.